Revamping 40+ league?

dode

Rookie
So we are getting wind that USTA is considering on revamping the 40+ league format (and supposedly voting in it soon). Anyone know any more about this? From what we were told, supposedly it would go to 1 court of singles and 3 courts of doubles, with some sort of system to ensure no ties (I am assuming a point system for each court). Anyone know anything about this??? Supposedly one person locally got some survey regarding this from USTA. Does anyone have more details about this?!?

John

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

Arsnlrob

Rookie
I heard 4 courts of doubles and 1 singles. 3.5 did it this year in our area (North FL), but wasn't done in 4.0
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
There have been surveys done recently asking questions about what players prefer. The questions seem to indicate there is a concern about fielding singles courts and so there may be a change like noted to just one singles court in some way.

IMHO, that would be a mistake. Right now of the 8 players in the match just 2 (25%) are singles and if you change this to a 4/1 or 3/1 there end up being very few playing opportunities for singles players. I think that is a bad thing.

Now, the current system does put a premium on good singles players, as a team having just two of them is getting two court wins all/most of the time from just two players and that may be considered unfair to teams that don't have strong singles players. I just don't think reducing singles to a single court is the solution as it effectively makes USTA a double only event.
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
It's always been 4 courts of doubles with 1 court of singles here in GA (Atlanta) for 40+. But once you get to State and beyond it goes to 3 courts of doubles and 2 courts of singles. I'd love if they made it where it didn't change once you got to state.
 

Doan

New User
Terrible idea. I can see that being feasible for 55+ as the pool of single players are less, but here in Mid-Atlantic there's plenty of 40+ players who like playing singles. Especially around the 3.5/4.0 levels. Maybe you might have problems getting enough 40+ singles players at 4.5 level ?
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
So we are getting wind that USTA is considering on revamping the 40+ league format (and supposedly voting in it soon). Anyone know any more about this? From what we were told, supposedly it would go to 1 court of singles and 3 courts of doubles, with some sort of system to ensure no ties (I am assuming a point system for each court). Anyone know anything about this??? Supposedly one person locally got some survey regarding this from USTA. Does anyone have more details about this?!?

John

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
USTA National or your section? This year, Middle States gave each local league the choice of 2S/3D or 1S/4D for the 40+ leagues. There was only one women's league that I'm aware of that chose 1/4. All districts and sectional playoffs revert back to 2/3.
 

dode

Rookie
USTA National or your section? This year, Middle States gave each local league the choice of 2S/3D or 1S/4D for the 40+ leagues. There was only one women's league that I'm aware of that chose 1/4. All districts and sectional playoffs revert back to 2/3.
According to what we were told, it sounded like USTA National was going to vote on this. Our local folks had virtually no information on this. They did go out of their way to mention 4 courts and that there would be provisions so that there would be no tied matches. This is the first that any of us had heard anything about it so I am just trying to get more info.

John
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
It's always been 4 courts of doubles with 1 court of singles here in GA (Atlanta) for 40+. But once you get to State and beyond it goes to 3 courts of doubles and 2 courts of singles. I'd love if they made it where it didn't change once you got to state.
Any rationale for the 4/1 format? Is it that hard to field two singles courts every match?
 

brettatk

Semi-Pro
Any rationale for the 4/1 format? Is it that hard to field two singles courts every match?
I really don't know why they chose to go with the 4/1 format. It was that way when I started playing 40+ in 2014. I wouldn't say it's an issue fielding two singles courts, we do that in 18+ without much difficulty. Our team has gone through transitions and it seems the past couple of years we are much stronger in doubles than singles. That's the main reason I'd like to see the change. But teams that have two or more strong singles players definitely get an advantage once you get to State. I do know a year or two USTA national had tried to change us to the 3/2 format for our area but USTA Atlanta petitioned and got it to remain the same.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
I really don't know why they chose to go with the 4/1 format. It was that way when I started playing 40+ in 2014. I wouldn't say it's an issue fielding two singles courts, we do that in 18+ without much difficulty. Our team has gone through transitions and it seems the past couple of years we are much stronger in doubles than singles. That's the main reason I'd like to see the change. But teams that have two or more strong singles players definitely get an advantage once you get to State. I do know a year or two USTA national had tried to change us to the 3/2 format for our area but USTA Atlanta petitioned and got it to remain the same.
It does put you at a disadvantage come States though. I guess a 4/1 format does get 9 player in each match so more playing time available, and perhaps need a bigger roster so more league fees ...
 

catfish

Professional
Local leagues may choose formats other then 2S and 3D played at championships. However, many local leagues choose not to use a different format since the advancing teams may have issues changing to the 2S and 3D format in post season. Post season championships for 40 & Over use 2S and 3D.

For some background, the 40 & Over leagues started in 2013. Prior to that, the Senior League was for players 50 and older and played 3 courts of doubles with no singles. Adult 18 & Over was the only USTA league that used 5 courts prior to 2013. When the new age groups were introduced in 2013, the former Senior level was split into 2 separate leagues: 55 & Over (3 doubles) and 40 & Over (2 singles, 3 doubles). This sounded great to offer more playing opportunities. But one side effect was it put a huge strain on general court availability in many areas. The Adult 18 & Over league and the Adult 40 & Over league both use 5 courts for each team match. These leagues take an enormous amount of courts and it is very difficult to fit both leagues in to meet the deadlines for the various championships. Many areas simply do not have enough courts and would prefer that 40 & Over change to 3 or 4 courts. Realistically, 3 courts (1 singles, 2 doubles) would work better in many areas due to court constraints. I may be wrong, but I believe that one of the reasons that USTA national may be looking into a different format is due to feedback that too many courts are being used for league play. The court availability aspect is something that few players think about, but is a constant concern for league administrators and the facilities that the courts belong to.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Local leagues may choose formats other then 2S and 3D played at championships. However, many local leagues choose not to use a different format since the advancing teams may have issues changing to the 2S and 3D format in post season. Post season championships for 40 & Over use 2S and 3D.

For some background, the 40 & Over leagues started in 2013. Prior to that, the Senior League was for players 50 and older and played 3 courts of doubles with no singles. Adult 18 & Over was the only USTA league that used 5 courts prior to 2013. When the new age groups were introduced in 2013, the former Senior level was split into 2 separate leagues: 55 & Over (3 doubles) and 40 & Over (2 singles, 3 doubles). This sounded great to offer more playing opportunities. But one side effect was it put a huge strain on general court availability in many areas. The Adult 18 & Over league and the Adult 40 & Over league both use 5 courts for each team match. These leagues take an enormous amount of courts and it is very difficult to fit both leagues in to meet the deadlines for the various championships. Many areas simply do not have enough courts and would prefer that 40 & Over change to 3 or 4 courts. Realistically, 3 courts (1 singles, 2 doubles) would work better in many areas due to court constraints. I may be wrong, but I believe that one of the reasons that USTA national may be looking into a different format is due to feedback that too many courts are being used for league play. The court availability aspect is something that few players think about, but is a constant concern for league administrators and the facilities that the courts belong to.
Court availability is definitely NOT an issue here. If our club has scheduling issues, we just find a high school and go play there. Every high school has 5-10 courts free to the public that aren't used after the school season ends (around 6/1).
 

dode

Rookie
Court availability can be an issue here. For us, 40+ is an indoor league played from like February through April. I figured that might be part of what is behind it, but it can make a dramatic affect on what you need to do with your roster to be competitive.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
So we are getting wind that USTA is considering on revamping the 40+ league format (and supposedly voting in it soon). Anyone know any more about this? From what we were told, supposedly it would go to 1 court of singles and 3 courts of doubles, with some sort of system to ensure no ties (I am assuming a point system for each court). Anyone know anything about this??? Supposedly one person locally got some survey regarding this from USTA. Does anyone have more details about this?!?

John

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
So I have no idea about USTA stuff, but just to parallel this with what ALTA does here in the Atlanta region...

Ordinarily ALTA is all dubs, and it is 5 lines of dubs - EXCEPT for the senior leagues (age 45 and up) - these play 4 lines of dubs. Partially this is to ease the difficulty of putting to gether large enough senior teams to fill out 5 lines and it is also partially because the senior teams typically play on Thursday and Friday evenings (to avoid weekend conflicts with their non-senior dubs leagues which play on Saturdays and Sundays) at something like 6:30 or 7 pm, and with the facility minimum requirement of 2 courts, having to play a 5th line of dubs would take until well after midnight for those facilities with only two courts... so anyway...

Regular season matches, they don't worry about ties, at each dual meet each team gets anywhere from 0 to 4 points... in a case where the regular season ends with a points tie, playoff is decided by head to head performance, then game/set performance if that's a tie, and so forth...

However, for senior league playoff matches, they play lines in reverse order - line 4, then 3, etc. If the lines split and there is a tie, the players at line 1 play a super tie breaker to decide the winner.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
On the court availability thing .... just don't run the 18+ and the 40+ leagues concurrently .... I know I am in an area with no weather issues but it can't be that hard in other regions to run the two leagues at different times.

I for one would not wish to lose a singles court, nor would I want to add another doubles court.

When the survey came out I voted for no changes.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
On the court availability thing .... just don't run the 18+ and the 40+ leagues concurrently .... I know I am in an area with no weather issues but it can't be that hard in other regions to run the two leagues at different times.

I for one would not wish to lose a singles court, nor would I want to add another doubles court.

When the survey came out I voted for no changes.
So, do your USTA leagues play on set days or do they just have to agree on a time between team captains and play by X date?

E.g. ALTA has it broken down:
Men's dubs is on Saturdays in Spring and Fall
Women's dubs on Sundays in Spring and Fall
Senior Men's dubs on Fridays, Summer only
Senior Women's dubs on Thursdays, Summer only
Mixed dubs is Saturday mornings in Summer, Sunday mornings in Winter
Senior Mixed dubs is Saturday in Winter only
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Over 30 yrs ago our local district chose 4 dbls only. At playoffs the format changed to 2S/3D. Some teams forfeited singles and loaded the dbls.
 

undecided

Rookie
Terrible idea. Tennis is primarily an individual sport. The primary seller of the sport in the pro level is the singles. We all aspire to be like Djoker/Fed/Nadal not the Bryan Bros.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
So, do your USTA leagues play on set days or do they just have to agree on a time between team captains and play by X date?

E.g. ALTA has it broken down:
Men's dubs is on Saturdays in Spring and Fall
Women's dubs on Sundays in Spring and Fall
Senior Men's dubs on Fridays, Summer only
Senior Women's dubs on Thursdays, Summer only
Mixed dubs is Saturday mornings in Summer, Sunday mornings in Winter
Senior Mixed dubs is Saturday in Winter only
Yes everything is a set day

For 18+ and 40+ all matches (men & women all 3.0 and up) are Saturday (2.5 women play Tuesday evening) .... 40+ from first Saturday in January through mid-March; 18+ late March through mid-May .... times from 7am - latest match start time 6pm (although can be later if courts are backed up)
Same with Fall non-advancing league

55+ and 65+ Men's leagues play on Sundays @ 10am Women's on Friday mornings.

Mixed plays Sundays. 7.0 & 9.0 @ Noon; 6.0, 8.0 & 10.0 @ 3:30

Pretty straight forward and easy enough to manage.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
Terrible idea. Tennis is primarily an individual sport. The primary seller of the sport in the pro level is the singles. We all aspire to be like Djoker/Fed/Nadal not the Bryan Bros.
ALTA, which is dubs only has around 80,000 league members in Georgia (and I heard it is looking at expanding into the Carolinas..) Meanwhile, USTA league membership for the whole nation sits at around 500k... I couldn't find Georgia specific statistics.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
Yes everything is a set day

For 18+ and 40+ all matches (men & women all 3.0 and up) are Saturday (2.5 women play Tuesday evening) .... 40+ from first Saturday in January through mid-March; 18+ late March through mid-May .... times from 7am - latest match start time 6pm (although can be later if courts are backed up)
Same with Fall non-advancing league

55+ and 65+ Men's leagues play on Sundays @ 10am Women's on Friday mornings.

Mixed plays Sundays. 7.0 & 9.0 @ Noon; 6.0, 8.0 & 10.0 @ 3:30

Pretty straight forward and easy enough to manage.
Cool! I can't "like" this for whatever reason, so... anyway, thanks for explaining.
 

catfish

Professional
On the court availability thing .... just don't run the 18+ and the 40+ leagues concurrently .... I know I am in an area with no weather issues but it can't be that hard in other regions to run the two leagues at different times.

I for one would not wish to lose a singles court, nor would I want to add another doubles court.

When the survey came out I voted for no changes.
Every area is different, so it's really not that simple in our area. Your area leagues may be smaller than the ones in my area. We have limited indoor court space. All outdoor clay courts close from late Nov to early April. We play all leagues (USTA and non-USTA) except Mixed 18 & Over between April and Nov.

We have three separate 18 & Over leagues that use Weekends, Weeknights and Weekdays. None of those can start before April 1 and they must conclude by mid June. We have two 40 & over leagues, and they have to be squeezed in after 18 & Over and finish by August 1. Weeknights and weekdays during the April to Nov time frame are used for 18 & Over Weeknight league (ends mid June), Mixed 40 & Over (ends July 31) , 55 & Over Men, 65 & Over Men, 55 & Over Women, 65 & Over Women, Mixed 55 and Over, Singles League and Tri-level. Combo Mixed uses weekends from Sept to mid-Nov. Mixed 18 & Over is played Jan - March at the facilities that have indoor courts available. It is very difficult to map out all of these different leagues within the time frames allowed and the various court constraints at our local facilities. Most facilities have more than one team within each level within each league. So some facilities have as many as 15 teams in one league. I know that our area is not the only one with "league saturation" and issues with court availability. But I'm sure players would be upset if we did away with some leagues.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
Every area is different, so it's really not that simple in our area. Your area leagues may be smaller than the ones in my area. We have limited indoor court space. All outdoor clay courts close from late Nov to early April. We play all leagues (USTA and non-USTA) except Mixed 18 & Over between April and Nov.

We have three separate 18 & Over leagues that use Weekends, Weeknights and Weekdays. None of those can start before April 1 and they must conclude by mid June. We have two 40 & over leagues, and they have to be squeezed in after 18 & Over and finish by August 1. Weeknights and weekdays during the April to Nov time frame are used for 18 & Over Weeknight league (ends mid June), Mixed 40 & Over (ends July 31) , 55 & Over Men, 65 & Over Men, 55 & Over Women, 65 & Over Women, Mixed 55 and Over, Singles League and Tri-level. Combo Mixed uses weekends from Sept to mid-Nov. Mixed 18 & Over is played Jan - March at the facilities that have indoor courts available. It is very difficult to map out all of these different leagues within the time frames allowed and the various court constraints at our local facilities. Most facilities have more than one team within each level within each league. So some facilities have as many as 15 teams in one league. I know that our area is not the only one with "league saturation" and issues with court availability. But I'm sure players would be upset if we did away with some leagues.
If there is this much demand to play, why have more indoor facilities not been built? Wouldn't some subset of all these players that play April-Nov pay to play indoors Dec-Mar?
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
From what we were told, supposedly it would go to 1 court of singles and 3 courts of doubles, with some sort of system to ensure no ties (I am assuming a point system for each court). Anyone know anything about this??? Supposedly one person locally got some survey regarding this from USTA. Does anyone have more details about this?!?
We've had some gruff from facilities about matches, times, and number of people on court. Wouldn't surprise me if it is a way to limit match time and maximize the number of people on court for the facilities.

As someone who plays the singles line mostly, I certainly do not want to change...least I end up going back to Flex or tournament singles only.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
Our club plays in a region of New England where we play 1 singles and 3 doubles for our regular league matches. The reason is that we play indoors, and many of the clubs are smaller and have only 4 courts. Sometimes it is convenient because of limited player availability, but often we have players that would prefer singles but have to play doubles instead. I don’t think this should be the default USTA format.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Oh no. I really hope that 40+ leagues remain 2 singles and 3 doubles. Singles is part of the game. Guys who are fit and age 40-55 can play singles just fine. In fact, I know many guys who are 55+ that have success at singles even in 18+ leagues. There is no reason to play the “you’re too old” card on a fit 50 year old player. Most of those guys still move pretty well and play decent tennis.

If it is truly a court scheduling issue, this simply speaks to the demand for more courts. If you build it, they will come. And when they come, they will pay court fees (especially if they get a bag tag and a trip to Mobile, AL if they win the league).
 

2ndServe

Professional
basically only play dubs but I think it needs to stay 2s 3d. Plenty of in shape 40+ dudes that can and do play singles and you need to have a more well rounded team with this format. Makes for some strategy, fitness, wear/tear when doing lineups too.
 

undecided

Rookie
basically only play dubs but I think it needs to stay 2s 3d. Plenty of in shape 40+ dudes that can and do play singles and you need to have a more well rounded team with this format. Makes for some strategy, fitness, wear/tear when doing lineups too.
As a 50+ old who plays singles, I say thanks.
 

Nacho

Professional
Local leagues may choose formats other then 2S and 3D played at championships. However, many local leagues choose not to use a different format since the advancing teams may have issues changing to the 2S and 3D format in post season. Post season championships for 40 & Over use 2S and 3D.

For some background, the 40 & Over leagues started in 2013. Prior to that, the Senior League was for players 50 and older and played 3 courts of doubles with no singles. Adult 18 & Over was the only USTA league that used 5 courts prior to 2013. When the new age groups were introduced in 2013, the former Senior level was split into 2 separate leagues: 55 & Over (3 doubles) and 40 & Over (2 singles, 3 doubles). This sounded great to offer more playing opportunities. But one side effect was it put a huge strain on general court availability in many areas. The Adult 18 & Over league and the Adult 40 & Over league both use 5 courts for each team match. These leagues take an enormous amount of courts and it is very difficult to fit both leagues in to meet the deadlines for the various championships. Many areas simply do not have enough courts and would prefer that 40 & Over change to 3 or 4 courts. Realistically, 3 courts (1 singles, 2 doubles) would work better in many areas due to court constraints. I may be wrong, but I believe that one of the reasons that USTA national may be looking into a different format is due to feedback that too many courts are being used for league play. The court availability aspect is something that few players think about, but is a constant concern for league administrators and the facilities that the courts belong to.
What you say is 100% accurate, and I have heard similar things about the potential change. Many 40+ leagues have already been doing this, but at districts/states/sectionals they are playing the 2/3 format. I have also heard of potentially having 1 singles 2 doubles potentially being introduced.....In my district its not a problem fielding the teams or getting the courts. Most players out there are in the 35+ range anyway....but many influential indoor clubs in those parts of the country with loads of indoor have complained about losing the court time for their money making various group stuff....so that is a big problem for them.

I have also heard that this vote is for 2021 championship year and not 2020
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
I have also heard that this vote is for 2021 championship year and not 2020
Yes, there is an enormous lead time for regulations and changes like these. The regulations for 2020 were finalized this Spring with any regulation changes having to be proposed by the Fall of 2018. So without special approval, changes discussed/approved now will be in the regulations published next Spring which will be for 2021.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
If courts are in such short supply, then charge more court fees and build more courts. Obviously, there is demand. People want to play. All we ever hear is how tennis is declining in popularity, yet available courts are in short supply? That does not add up.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
FWIW, I was just doing a report for a player in New England, and their Sectionals for 40+ appear to have used 4 courts (1 singles and 3 doubles) and when courts split 2-2, they appear to have used sets won/lost in some way to determine the team "win" for standings. And interestingly, they had three flights and rather than a wildcard making semis with the flight winners, the three flight winners did another round-robin each playing the other team and simply used the standings after this "finals" round-robin to determine the winner.
 

catfish

Professional
If there is this much demand to play, why have more indoor facilities not been built? Wouldn't some subset of all these players that play April-Nov pay to play indoors Dec-Mar?
If courts are in such short supply, then charge more court fees and build more courts. Obviously, there is demand. People want to play. All we ever hear is how tennis is declining in popularity, yet available courts are in short supply? That does not add up.
Building indoor facilities and more courts is an expensive undertaking. It's easy to say "build more courts". But to who or what entity do you address that? Most courts in our area are owned by private entities or neighborhood associations and require membership. Many are in neighborhoods or areas that have no extra space to build more courts. Some courts are empty because the entities they belong to would rather have empty courts than allow non-members to use them for a fee to play league matches. So players flock to the facilities that have active tennis programs and encourage league play.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Dear God,

USTA captain here. You know I don't ask for much, right?

Please stop forcing me to find two 40+ women to play singles every week. See, our 40+ league runs in the dead of winter, when court availability is at its lowest. Matches are late at night and far away. Plus, most of my ladies must have their arm twisted to play singles. It is hell.

I know older guys may like singles, but many ladies do not. Plus, singles players are as fragile as thoroughbreds, so I need a bunch to always have two available.

If you do this one thing for me, I will stop taking your name in vain when I miss an overhead.

We can talk about fixing my forehand next week.

Amen.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Dear God,

USTA captain here. You know I don't ask for much, right?

Please stop forcing me to find two 40+ women to play singles every week. See, our 40+ league runs in the dead of winter, when court availability is at its lowest. Matches are late at night and far away. Plus, most of my ladies must have their arm twisted to play singles. It is hell.

I know older guys may like singles, but many ladies do not. Plus, singles players are as fragile as thoroughbreds, so I need a bunch to always have two available.

If you do this one thing for me, I will stop taking your name in vain when I miss an overhead.

We can talk about fixing my forehand next week.

Amen.
Again .... I do not recognize the women's 40+ 3.5 league of which you speak.

We have singles players coming out of our ears. Singles players approach captains and ask if they will have enough playing time at singles and not at doubles. And if you say you have several players who will only play singles they move on to the next captain.

With a team of 14 players, you have teammates whining about not enough playing time.
 

RogueFLIP

Professional
Was told at the Captain's meeting in the spring that the Men's 40+ 3.5 season would be doing the 1/4 split. Was told by the LLC that "this format was asked" by the captains. Huh? I was never asked, and neither were any of the other captains at the table that I asked.

Basically found out the the women's side had been asking for this change in format.

Not sure why it'd be so hard to keep the format the same, esp that if you made it to sectionals, it'd go back to the 2/3 format. One gender wants a change in format? Fine, but why change it in both men & women?

Sometimes it's hard enough to field 8 people, now I gotta find 9? Gee, thanks...
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Was told at the Captain's meeting in the spring that the Men's 40+ 3.5 season would be doing the 1/4 split. Was told by the LLC that "this format was asked" by the captains. Huh? I was never asked, and neither were any of the other captains at the table that I asked.

Basically found out the the women's side had been asking for this change in format.

Not sure why it'd be so hard to keep the format the same, esp that if you made it to sectionals, it'd go back to the 2/3 format. One gender wants a change in format? Fine, but why change it in both men & women?

Sometimes it's hard enough to field 8 people, now I gotta find 9? Gee, thanks...
That is so lame.


So, in advance of this vote .... to whom do we send petitions to make voices heard?

It has to be about the players and captains and not about facility owners .....
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Again .... I do not recognize the women's 40+ 3.5 league of which you speak.

We have singles players coming out of our ears. Singles players approach captains and ask if they will have enough playing time at singles and not at doubles. And if you say you have several players who will only play singles they move on to the next captain.

With a team of 14 players, you have teammates whining about not enough playing time.
If I have to field 8 women per line for 14 matches, that’s 112 playing slots, 28 for singles. I would want 6-7 of those to be women with a decent chance in singles. That’s because every one of them will get injured at some point. And then I’m begging someone to go take a beat down in singles.

It’s also hard because our 40+ season is right before the 18+ season. So if I fill my 40+ roster, I will have to boot some women to make room for younger singles players. Nobody likes that.

Captaining combo where you only have to field three courts of doubles is so much easier.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Was told at the Captain's meeting in the spring that the Men's 40+ 3.5 season would be doing the 1/4 split. Was told by the LLC that "this format was asked" by the captains. Huh? I was never asked, and neither were any of the other captains at the table that I asked.

Basically found out the the women's side had been asking for this change in format.

Not sure why it'd be so hard to keep the format the same, esp that if you made it to sectionals, it'd go back to the 2/3 format. One gender wants a change in format? Fine, but why change it in both men & women?

Sometimes it's hard enough to field 8 people, now I gotta find 9? Gee, thanks...
I think the league listens to the women because there are way more of them.
 

RogueFLIP

Professional
I think the league listens to the women because there are way more of them.
No doubt, but:

1. Don't tell me "this format was asked for by the captains" when I wasn't asked and I've been captaining for a bit now; and none of the other male captains at my table were asked.
2. If the females asked for the format change, why change both men and women? Would it have been that hard to just change it for females and leave the male format alone?
 

catfish

Professional
That is so lame.


So, in advance of this vote .... to whom do we send petitions to make voices heard?

It has to be about the players and captains and not about facility owners .....
It's about both. The USTA does not own the courts used for league play. It is very important to be respectful of the entities who own the courts. Some areas may have large public facilities that have plenty of courts for league use and no restrictions, but some areas do not. League administrators have to balance the needs of the players and the needs of the facilities. If the leagues/players are being too demanding, the facilities can simply do away with USTA league play. If you owned a facility that had tennis courts and an outside entity told you how to operate and demanded unlimited court space, I doubt you'd appreciate it. Most facility owners appreciate the fact that adult league play does bring in memberships, court fees, lessons, pro shop sales, etc. But that doesn't mean that they don't also need court space for their own events, lessons, youth programs, etc.

League administration is not easy. A lot goes into and league players have little appreciation for it. The fact that you are getting surveys is good and means you are being listened to. But other things factor into decisions. Sadly, many players have a very narrow view of leagues, and think that every area is just like theirs. Their expectations are simply not in line with reality.

To all the singles players who want more singles play, why don't some of you start your own singles league?
 

catfish

Professional
Dear God,

USTA captain here. You know I don't ask for much, right?

Please stop forcing me to find two 40+ women to play singles every week. See, our 40+ league runs in the dead of winter, when court availability is at its lowest. Matches are late at night and far away. Plus, most of my ladies must have their arm twisted to play singles. It is hell.

I know older guys may like singles, but many ladies do not. Plus, singles players are as fragile as thoroughbreds, so I need a bunch to always have two available.

If you do this one thing for me, I will stop taking your name in vain when I miss an overhead.

We can talk about fixing my forehand next week.

Amen.
:-D:-D(y)
 

Nacho

Professional
Building indoor facilities and more courts is an expensive undertaking. It's easy to say "build more courts". But to who or what entity do you address that? Most courts in our area are owned by private entities or neighborhood associations and require membership. Many are in neighborhoods or areas that have no extra space to build more courts. Some courts are empty because the entities they belong to would rather have empty courts than allow non-members to use them for a fee to play league matches. So players flock to the facilities that have active tennis programs and encourage league play.
Agreed, the days of public center tennis are pretty much gone. And Rec. tennis is an afterthought for the USTA...Not much energy put into it except by some volunteers, and the clubs just don't want to manage or captain these things. Why I think local tennis leagues should given the freedom to run these or their own
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
It's about both. The USTA does not own the courts used for league play. It is very important to be respectful of the entities who own the courts. Some areas may have large public facilities that have plenty of courts for league use and no restrictions, but some areas do not. League administrators have to balance the needs of the players and the needs of the facilities. If the leagues/players are being too demanding, the facilities can simply do away with USTA league play. If you owned a facility that had tennis courts and an outside entity told you how to operate and demanded unlimited court space, I doubt you'd appreciate it. Most facility owners appreciate the fact that adult league play does bring in memberships, court fees, lessons, pro shop sales, etc. But that doesn't mean that they don't also need court space for their own events, lessons, youth programs, etc.

League administration is not easy. A lot goes into and league players have little appreciation for it. The fact that you are getting surveys is good and means you are being listened to. But other things factor into decisions. Sadly, many players have a very narrow view of leagues, and think that every area is just like theirs. Their expectations are simply not in line with reality.

To all the singles players who want more singles play, why don't some of you start your own singles league?
*sigh* Quit being so darn reasonable ....

I am lucky to be in an area with ample available court space and basically zero weather related issues. (although we do still play in very high winds)
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I heard 4 courts of doubles and 1 singles. 3.5 did it this year in our area (North FL), but wasn't done in 4.0
Awsome idea. 4 courts of doubles and 1 singles is GOOD. all these old hecks can't play singles or don't even want to. and Ones that do want to play singles don't want to do it all time.. and ones that do want to play singles all the time don't know their body and gets INJURED eventually and can't play........................................ROTFL...................

So I love this idea
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Agreed, the days of public center tennis are pretty much gone. And Rec. tennis is an afterthought for the USTA...Not much energy put into it except by some volunteers, and the clubs just don't want to manage or captain these things. Why I think local tennis leagues should given the freedom to run these or their own
Even Martina Navratilova said 90 % of the club tennis players play doubles 90 % of the time. so USTA should be mostly doubles. with exception of singles tournaments.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Geez, for crying out loud. Just don’t get fat, and go running to stay in shape. These 3.5 and 4.0 players who can’t play singles because they are weak and have no physical stamina need to just quit tennis altogether. Honestly, if you are 45 years old, otherwise healthy, and don’t have the stamina to play singles tennis for 90 minutes against another 45 year old, then you have bigger problems than which new cheap poly string to play with. Quit posting on these forums about equipment minutia, put the bag of potato chips down, and get in shape. Good grief.
 

catfish

Professional
At the risk of asking a stupid question - why aren't there "singles only" leagues for USTA?
There are USTA Singles leagues. Why not start one in your area? USTA offers many different formats, but it takes someone willing to administer a new league to get it going. Contact your Sectional office and find out how to go about starting a new league in your area.
 
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