RF "fans" showing defeatist regarding Nadal attitude/mentality - PLS READ!

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
Let me just begin by saying that I don't mean to single anyone out here, nor do I wish to cause offense; I am simply and plainly expressing my disappointment and exasperation toward a certain type of cowardly perspective—regarding Federer supporters/fans—that I have noticed is becoming more prevalent come every Slam.

To start, let me just state what this perspective is: It's this mentality, by so called Fed fans, that believes he is better off protecting his "legacy" versus Nadal—by way of avoiding him at all costs at Slams—than striving hard to go as deep as possible at every tournament to get the best results. I'll quickly go through a few key points that I want to bring up:

1) I'd like to just ask something here: Is it not better reaching the final of a Slam than it is reaching the semi-final? In the end, the result is what matters to competitors, surely? If you disagree, please read on!

2) Where is the support for Federer when it comes to facing off against Nadal? Didn't Federer defeat him at the World Tour Finals to become the 2010 World Champion 10 months ago? Yes indoors is a completely different surface, but we all should know that Federer unquestionably has the game to beat Nadal. You can't possibly be a genuine RF fan/supporter if you outright say that he has 0% chance against the Spaniard (which is obviously a falsehood) This is an utterly despicable defeatist attitude and I'm sure Roger would NOT want you sitting in his box if given the opportunity.

3) Federer is 30 years old. Nobody expects him beat the top guys at the very tail-end of Slams anymore. That time has passed. He's become the underdog. Now, having said that, if in all sports the underdog had the mindset that they didn't stand a chance, where would we be when it came to notions such as sporting glory, for example?

4) Professional athletes play the game with the intention of trying their best to beat the rest and achieve victory. That is what they do. So how is it that some of you fellow RF "fans" could possibly prefer the scenario where Federer loses against the hottest player in tennis and current ATP number 1, instead of beating him (especially at this late stage of his career) but then coming short against possibly Nadal in the final??

5) Any true athlete relishes another chance at glory, at victory. Why should Federer be any different? He should want to play Nadal in the big matches all the time as it's his biggest challenge as an athlete. Why do fans not get this? Too concerned about pathetic bragging rights, etc. It's incredibly disappointing to genuine RF supporters who want to see him put himself in these situations where he can obtain sporting glory.

6) Wanting to avoid Nadal at all costs, even if it means tanking a semi-final Grand Slam match is utterly cowardice and contemptible. Federer could lose 10 times in a row to Nadal and yet I'd impatiently wait for my fav. player to get yet another crack at it. It's the mindset of any great athlete... to compete.

Yes this post turned out to be somewhat of a rant but oh well. It had to be done. It's starting to get ridiculous around here. Overall results matter. Federer plays the game of tennis, not the game of winning or losing against Rafael Nadal. I think many RF fans here would be wise to lose their cowardly perspective of fearing one man and instead remember that it's about what you achieve in your career.

Having said all that, I, for one, wish Federer all the best in his semi against Djokovic. As a genuine fan, I hope he absolutely annihilates the Joker... I don't care one bit who he faces in the final. And if he manages to win and ends up facing his archrival, then I look forward to and give all of my support to Roger destroying him. One must believe in one's player.
:)
 
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nikdom

Guest
Good points. I think Roger fans are defeatist because Roger himself is somewhat that way.....or at least it seems that way from the way he has folded in big matches against Nadal.

The shanks of routine shots he would otherwise make against a regular player show that he lets things get to him in a match. Hence also the reluctance of his fans to wish a direct confrontation with his nemesis.

I for one hope for only one thing from Roger. I don't care if he doesn't win any more slams....which is the worst case scenario anyway. I just hope that he can swing freely no matter the opponent and the occasion. When he swings freely, he stands a much better chance of coming out the victor. If he truly believes that everything is just gravy from this point on, then he should not let the situation get to him. For this one point alone, Nadal should be commended sky high. The guy rarely ever gives up on himself.
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
Good points as well. Trust me you don't have to describe to me what it's like being so infinitely frustrated with Roger when he's playing Nadal. The shanks, the lapses of concentration, and yes, when his backhand is being ruthlessly peppered by Rafa even Roger begins to look completely dejected.

What I don't like seeing, however, is his fans suggesting how they think he should purposely tank against Djokovic because losing to him instead of Nadal (as if it's an unchangeable predetermined outcome) would somehow be "saving face", etc.

Federer without a shadow of a doubt can take Nadal out at this USO. If he wins tomorrow (which in itself would be huge for him and all of us fans), I almost prefer he play Nadal in the final... because quite honestly, I think he'd win. And I'd LOVE for him to get another nice, big, shiny "W" against Nadal at a slam... it's been FAR too long.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
The fans are not defeatists. They're just realistic and know what to expect after what's gone down in the past several years between their guy and Nadal. Federer crumbles mentally almost every time. His fans just get completely frustrated seeing the same missed opportunities time and again. There's only so much one can stomach. Just like Nadal fans are getting upset at Nadal losing all these finals to Djokovic. Ultimately unless Nadal starts winning some of these matches, the Nadal fans will not be happy campers. And they can't rely on Federer forever to do Nadal's dirty work for him.:lol:
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Good points as well. Trust me you don't have to describe to me what it's like being so infinitely frustrated with Roger when he's playing Nadal. The shanks, the lapses of concentration, and yes, when his backhand is being ruthlessly peppered by Rafa even Roger begins to look completely dejected.

What I don't like seeing, however, is his fans suggesting how they think he should purposely tank against Djokovic because losing to him instead of Nadal (as if it's an unchangeable predetermined outcome) would somehow be "saving face", etc.

Federer without a shadow of a doubt can take Nadal out at this USO. If he wins tomorrow (which in itself would be huge for him and all of us fans), I almost prefer he play Nadal in the final... because quite honestly, I think he'd win. And I'd LOVE for him to get another nice, big, shiny "W" against Nadal at a slam... it's been FAR too long.
You think he'd win. Federer himself doesn't think he'd win. All Federer can do is give Nadal a good match. When it's crunch time, Federer will falter as he always does. The fans expect that to happen.
 
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nikdom

Guest
Good points as well. Trust me you don't have to describe to me what it's like being so infinitely frustrated with Roger when he's playing Nadal. The shanks, the lapses of concentration, and yes, when his backhand is being ruthlessly peppered by Rafa even Roger begins to look completely dejected.

What I don't like seeing, however, is his fans suggesting how they think he should purposely tank against Djokovic because losing to him instead of Nadal (as if it's an unchangeable predetermined outcome) would somehow be "saving face", etc.

Federer without a shadow of a doubt can take Nadal out at this USO. If he wins tomorrow (which in itself would be huge for him and all of us fans), I almost prefer he play Nadal in the final... because quite honestly, I think he'd win. And I'd LOVE for him to get another nice, big, shiny "W" against Nadal at a slam... it's been FAR too long.
Disregard the defeatist fans who want him to lose to Djoko. They are not fans of Roger. They're fans of never having to taste the tears of a heartbreaking loss. I say what good is the sweetness of victory if you haven't tasted loss.
 

Pwned

Hall of Fame
You think he'd win. Federer himself doesn't think he'd win. All Federer can do is give Nadal a good match. When it's crunch time, Federer will falter as he always does. The fans expect that to happen.
How does Nadal only lead the h2h on clay then?
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
You think he'd win. Federer himself doesn't think he'd win. All Federer can do is give Nadal a good match. When it's crunch time, Federer will falter as he always does. The fans expect that to happen.
Good to know you are omniscient and inside Federer's head. :)

So even you think their potential finals match on a hard court is a foregone conclusion?? I didn't want to whip out numbers but I'm left with no choice now:

Clay: Nadal leads H2H 12-2 ..... their overall H2H insanely skewed by clay.
Grass: Federer leads H2H 2-1.
Hard: 4-4

USO is what? Hard? 4-4? I guess there's a new definition for "foregone conclusion" and I didn't get the memo.
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
How does Nadal only lead the h2h on clay then?
Ah, nice to see some objective, reasonable comments by a Rafa fan instead of flaming. :) Nadal is clearly superior to Federer on clay, but on grass and hard... things look, better yet, are 50/50.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Good to see Federer fans still have some belief in their man. I just hope you're not the same ones who are cheering for Djokovic to stop Nadal in the final. :lol:
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
Good to see Federer fans still have some belief in their man. I just hope you're not the same ones who are cheering for Djokovic to stop Nadal in the final. :lol:
Ha. I've actually noticed how some Fed fans prefer any scenario over the scenario where Rafa wins his second USO. For me? Not really. I actually feel for the guy this season. If Djokovic beats Federer tomorrow and plays Nadal in the final I will be... wait for it...........

...... pulling for Nadal! :)

I actually really hate this year's domination by Djokovic. Don't want to see him lift the trophy come Monday.
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
And as the numbers show:

Federer leads 6-5 on non-clay surfaces.

So, irrational to count him out if they were to meet here where Federer has only lost two matches in eight years, with both being tight 5 setters?

I think it would be rational to say Roger has the slight edge.
 

ViscaB

Hall of Fame
The issue is that many Federer fans jumped on the bandwagon when he was winning a lot. Now he's not as good anymore they can't accept this. Some already jumped ship to Djokovic.

There is also a subset of Federer fans who hate Nadal so much that they don't even care anymore for Federer's results as long as Nadal doesn't win they are fine.
 

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
I think you have misunderstood it all OP. Fed fans never want him to tank a match to avoid Nadal. This is what you want to preach because then you can label them "defeatist" and such.
Specially in Majors, only a fool would want him not to reach the final just because of what is on the other side of the net.

You are not "exasperated" nor "disjointedness". You are just another poster with an idea for a thread thinking this one is real cool, or you would understand, as any Federer fan has, that Nadal cannot touch his legacy unless he himself breaks the records.
 

8PAQ

Banned
You think he'd win. Federer himself doesn't think he'd win. All Federer can do is give Nadal a good match. When it's crunch time, Federer will falter as he always does. The fans expect that to happen.
Exactly and it's really heartbreaking to watch. Especially when Fed loses a set after sometimes being up two breaks.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
The issue is that many Federer fans jumped on the bandwagon when he was winning a lot. Now he's not as good anymore they can't accept this. Some already jumped ship to Djokovic.

There is also a subset of Federer fans who hate Nadal so much that they don't even care anymore for Federer's results as long as Nadal doesn't win they are fine.
Yeah as opposed to you supporting Nadal because he hasn't won any Majors... :roll:
 

ViscaB

Hall of Fame
Yeah as opposed to you supporting Nadal because he hasn't won any Majors... :roll:
I support Nadal because he's from Mallorca;). I'm 50% Spanish. He speaks Catalan and his uncle played for my football club FC Barcelona. His major drawback is his support for Real Madrid. I consider it an act of childhood rebellion. Uncle Toni supports the right club!
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
I think you have misunderstood it all OP. Fed fans never want him to tank a match to avoid Nadal.
Unless some posters are deliberately trying to mislead or are using subtle sarcasm when they state how it would be better for Rog to go out in the semis as opposed to losing to Nadal, which is inevitable according to them, in order to "save face", I'll take my observations at face value.

Now, if I've "misunderstood" despite the evidence being in my face, I apologise.

You are not "exasperated"
Thanks for telling me how I feel but no thanks, I am exasperated by it all because I don't think this defeatist attitude is the right attitude to have.

You are just another poster with an idea for a thread thinking this one is real cool...
Actually it's totally uncool as I made a stupid careless error in the thread title which unfortunately could not be corrected! :)

Btw, a contentious one you are!
 

Omega_7000

Legend
I support Nadal because he's from Mallorca;). I'm 50% Spanish. He speaks Catalan and his uncle played for my football club FC Barcelona. His major drawback is his support for Real Madrid. I consider it an act of childhood rebellion. Uncle Toni supports the right club!
Doesn't change the fact that you would not have made 1000+ posts about Nadal if he had not won any Majors. Everyone here is a glory hunter including you.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
and to the OP, I would like to see Fed in Nadal's half and not to see Fed lose in the SF. Atleast that way even if he chokes against Nadal or wins, it will be a much more entertaining final.
 

Docalex007

Hall of Fame
and to the OP, I would like to see Fed in Nadal's half and not to see Fed lose in the SF. Atleast that way even if he chokes against Nadal or wins, it will be a much more entertaining final.
Would definitely like to see that, too—Fed in Nadal's half. It HAS to happen soon with the current 1, 2, 3 and 4. We had a 50/50 chance of it happening this time round... likely it'll happen at the Aussie.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
OP
You are just picking up from some casual fans.
On another thread, most people said they'd rather he reach the final no matter whom he loses to.

Some did say their second choice for winning is Nole (as against Rafa), so don't misunderstand that.
 

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
1) I'd like to just ask something here: Is it not better reaching the final of a Slam than it is reaching the semi-final? In the end, the result is what matters to competitors, surely? If you disagree, please read on!
No, in the grand scheme of things, it isn't necessarily better. What difference is making another slam final going to make at this point where Roger has very little prove? Of course it's nice he made this far and has put himself in a position to make it farther because we can have him around longer. But it won't make a difference now.

2) Where is the support for Federer when it comes to facing off against Nadal? Didn't Federer defeat him at the World Tour Finals to become the 2010 World Champion 10 months ago? Yes indoors is a completely different surface, but we all should know that Federer unquestionably has the game to beat Nadal. You can't possibly be a genuine RF fan/supporter if you outright say that he has 0% chance against the Spaniard (which is obviously a falsehood) This is an utterly despicable defeatist attitude and I'm sure Roger would NOT want you sitting in his box if given the opportunity.
I think Roger gets a lot of support against Nadal. What he doesn't get is faith but its natural given he IS past his prime unlike Nadal on top of having Nadal as a terrible match-up. It's obvious who the odds favour given their styles.

3) Federer is 30 years old. Nobody expects him beat the top guys at the very tail-end of Slams anymore. That time has passed. He's become the underdog. Now, having said that, if in all sports the underdog had the mindset that they didn't stand a chance, where would we be when it came to notions such as sporting glory, for example?
Oh, he stands a chance against anyone even now. It's just that you can't be sure about it all the time and it's just not as much as before.
 
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mandy01

G.O.A.T.
Good points. I think Roger fans are defeatist because Roger himself is somewhat that way.....or at least it seems that way from the way he has folded in big matches against Nadal.

The shanks of routine shots he would otherwise make against a regular player show that he lets things get to him in a match. Hence also the reluctance of his fans to wish a direct confrontation with his nemesis.

I for one hope for only one thing from Roger. I don't care if he doesn't win any more slams....which is the worst case scenario anyway. I just hope that he can swing freely no matter the opponent and the occasion. When he swings freely, he stands a much better chance of coming out the victor. If he truly believes that everything is just gravy from this point on, then he should not let the situation get to him. For this one point alone, Nadal should be commended sky high. The guy rarely ever gives up on himself.
And yet, he's done so on numerous occasions this year alone. It's easy to come out as a fighter when you match-up well to your nemesis because you always have that cushion of knowing you can just play your game. You can tell at this point though that Nadal is practically hoping a drop off from Novak as far as his level of play goes. Let's not exaggerate here.
 

dh003i

Legend
The greatest player that Nadal has faced through most of his career -- heck, the greatest player of the last 10 years -- is a player who Nadal happens to match up excellently against. It isn't that Nadal is a better player than Federer, he isn't. Look at their results vs. the field, number of multi-slam winning years, etc. But Nadal matches up well against Federer.

Nadal can play in his comfort zone against Federer, because of his high-spinning shots going to Fed's backhand. There have certainly been some players largely immune to Nadal's biggest weapon, topspin. However, they've all been very inconsistent.

Until Djokovic, Nadal has not faced on single great player who isn't a good matchup for him. Now, he is facing a prime Djokovic and isn't doing too well. Why? Because Djokovic is the more aggressive shot-making player, and he is unaffected by Nadal's high-bouncing balls and topspin.

So lets see how Nadal reacts to that.
 

ductrung3993

Hall of Fame
Let me just begin by saying that I don't mean to single anyone out here, nor do I wish to cause offense; I am simply and plainly expressing my disappointment and exasperation toward a certain type of cowardly perspective—regarding Federer supporters/fans—that I have noticed is becoming more prevalent come every Slam.

To start, let me just state what this perspective is: It's this mentality, by so called Fed fans, that believes he is better off protecting his "legacy" versus Nadal—by way of avoiding him at all costs at Slams—than striving hard to go as deep as possible at every tournament to get the best results. I'll quickly go through a few key points that I want to bring up:

1) I'd like to just ask something here: Is it not better reaching the final of a Slam than it is reaching the semi-final? In the end, the result is what matters to competitors, surely? If you disagree, please read on!

2) Where is the support for Federer when it comes to facing off against Nadal? Didn't Federer defeat him at the World Tour Finals to become the 2010 World Champion 10 months ago? Yes indoors is a completely different surface, but we all should know that Federer unquestionably has the game to beat Nadal. You can't possibly be a genuine RF fan/supporter if you outright say that he has 0% chance against the Spaniard (which is obviously a falsehood) This is an utterly despicable defeatist attitude and I'm sure Roger would NOT want you sitting in his box if given the opportunity.

3) Federer is 30 years old. Nobody expects him beat the top guys at the very tail-end of Slams anymore. That time has passed. He's become the underdog. Now, having said that, if in all sports the underdog had the mindset that they didn't stand a chance, where would we be when it came to notions such as sporting glory, for example?

4) Professional athletes play the game with the intention of trying their best to beat the rest and achieve victory. That is what they do. So how is it that some of you fellow RF "fans" could possibly prefer the scenario where Federer loses against the hottest player in tennis and current ATP number 1, instead of beating him (especially at this late stage of his career) but then coming short against possibly Nadal in the final??

5) Any true athlete relishes another chance at glory, at victory. Why should Federer be any different? He should want to play Nadal in the big matches all the time as it's his biggest challenge as an athlete. Why do fans not get this? Too concerned about pathetic bragging rights, etc. It's incredibly disappointing to genuine RF supporters who want to see him put himself in these situations where he can obtain sporting glory.

6) Wanting to avoid Nadal at all costs, even if it means tanking a semi-final Grand Slam match is utterly cowardice and contemptible. Federer could lose 10 times in a row to Nadal and yet I'd impatiently wait for my fav. player to get yet another crack at it. It's the mindset of any great athlete... to compete.

Yes this post turned out to be somewhat of a rant but oh well. It had to be done. It's starting to get ridiculous around here. Overall results matter. Federer plays the game of tennis, not the game of winning or losing against Rafael Nadal. I think many RF fans here would be wise to lose their cowardly perspective of fearing one man and instead remember that it's about what you achieve in your career.

Having said all that, I, for one, wish Federer all the best in his semi against Djokovic. As a genuine fan, I hope he absolutely annihilates the Joker... I don't care one bit who he faces in the final. And if he manages to win and ends up facing his archrival, then I look forward to and give all of my support to Roger destroying him. One must believe in one's player.
:)
I agree with you mostly, those fellow "fans" fed me up, but not on that. (Bolded and Underlined)
 
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Good points. I think Roger fans are defeatist because Roger himself is somewhat that way.....or at least it seems that way from the way he has folded in big matches against Nadal.

The shanks of routine shots he would otherwise make against a regular player show that he lets things get to him in a match. Hence also the reluctance of his fans to wish a direct confrontation with his nemesis.

I for one hope for only one thing from Roger. I don't care if he doesn't win any more slams....which is the worst case scenario anyway. I just hope that he can swing freely no matter the opponent and the occasion. When he swings freely, he stands a much better chance of coming out the victor. If he truly believes that everything is just gravy from this point on, then he should not let the situation get to him. For this one point alone, Nadal should be commended sky high. The guy rarely ever gives up on himself.


Roger is working the Annacone for a reason. Also, finally Roger's backhand is coming back as well as his offensive game. Roger only wants majors IMO, anything else is not worth expending himself. His form is looking better and better everyday. In reality 30 is not old, Roger can make it if he so chooses and puts the necessary work in.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Roger is working the Annacone for a reason. Also, finally Roger's backhand is coming back as well as his offensive game. Roger only wants majors IMO, anything else is not worth expending himself. His form is looking better and better everyday. In reality 30 is not old, Roger can make it if he so chooses and puts the necessary work in.
Of course, with 1000 matches under his belt Fed is merely at the start of his career, he's just warming up.


PS. I'll play close attention to whether you'll sing the same tune when Nadal turns 30, I mean otherwise you'd be a double faced hypocrite, no?
 
"I think many RF fans here would be wise to lose their cowardly perspective of fearing one man and instead remember that it's about what you achieve in your career." OP says. Who are these "many" Federer fans?
 
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