RG 2021 Final: Novak Djokovic [1] vs Stefanos Tsitsipas [5]

[Feather]

Fed failed, big deal. It's his own fault.

But I also admit that Fed had it much harder post 28 than Novak. It is not even up for debate. Unless you think facing younger Djokodal is the same as facing Thiem, Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas.

And yes, Fed had it easier in 2004-2007, but the man was 23-26 then, he would have done great anyway. Novak, OTOH, wouldn't have 19 slams if he had great competition post 27.

Many don't get this part.. the bolded part

 

[mike danny]

Many don't get this part.. the bolded part

And that's the problem. Many think that there's no difference between being 30+ and in your mid 20's.

 

[NAS]

Nah, he is a clown who can't deal with the fact that Fed is not GOAT anymore and is throwing all his frustrations at him.

Fed did choke many winning positions, the only I think of Novak is us open 2013( another one can be AO 2014)
And it's nothing to do with age excuse, some of his loss has to do with he is not being clutch.
AO 2005 should have ended in four set, he was not loosing to Hewitt
AO 09 for me he was better player for four set but he lost first and third( something how Novak was better in first set in final but still loss)
US open 2009 was a one of the biggest choke, after all stupid FH to fh exchange, he still would have ended the final in four set( he was serving for set 2 and was break up in set 4)
US open 2010, this doesn't matter as he was not winning final
US open 2011, he was playing great and I see him beating Rafa, he did have a great year ending season, won Paris and yec
US open 2015 went on with 4/23 bp, nothing to do with age, yes some were saved by good second service of Novak but he was really tentative on others.
Wimbledon 2019 god another choke.
Not talking about Wimbledon 2018 as it was in qf and Us open 2014 as Cilic played great.
Even let say he wins only two maybe one of AO 05 or 09 and Wimbledon 19 , he ends up with 22 and his competition on 19 and 18

 

[Feather]

I don think he is a clown, I think what he is saying is very accurate.

No, I don't find it accurate..

Honestly, I blame Roger only for Wimbledon 2019 final.. It was a choke job.. coz he had the best serve and it was on his racquet.. he had four chances at 40-15 to close the match with an ace.. he failed miserably and it was disastrous. In the same tournament Roger beat Rafa convincingly in the SF and he was close to 37. But everyone talks about 40-15 only

That poster is blaming for US 2010, 2011 also.. How is 2010 a choke job? Match points weren't even on his serve. And the way Rafa was playing in that US Open, Roger would have lost the final anyway.. Regarding 2011 US Open, yes he should have won it coz he had match points on his serve but there is no guarantee that he will beat Rafa in the final. So there is no point in crying he lost a slam .. both of these don't come under the list of slams Roger choked, NO WAY.

Roger Federer beat Rafa coming back from a break down in fifth set in 2017 AO final. Considering the fact that he had big issues versus Rafa till then, it was indeed an awesome job. So no credits for the mental strength there, that too against one of the giants when it comes to mental strength? Or is it applicable only when Roger loses matches that he should have won?

He could have won AO 2009 or US 2015 but then he was playing two of the best players in the history, In the latter, he was at an age disadvantage too

See, I can accept if someone says Novak Djokovic and Rafa Nadal are mentally strong compared to Roger Federer. But to say Roger is mentally weak is pure BS. Only clueless people or haters say that..

 

[mike danny]

Fed did choke many winning positions, the only I think of Novak is us open 2013( another one can be AO 2014)
And it's nothing to do with age excuse, some of his loss has to do with he is not being clutch.
AO 2005 should have ended in four set, he was not loosing to Hewitt
AO 09 for me he was better player for four set but he lost first and third( something how Novak was better in first set in final but still loss)
US open 2009 was a one of the biggest choke, after all stupid FH to fh exchange, he still would have ended the final in four set( he was serving for set 2 and was break up in set 4)
US open 2010, this doesn't matter as he was not winning final
US open 2011, he was playing great and I see him beating Rafa, he did have a great year ending season, won Paris and yec
US open 2015 went on with 4/23 bp, nothing to do with age, yes some were saved by good second service of Novak but he was really tentative on others.
Wimbledon 2019 god another choke.
Not talking about Wimbledon 2018 as it was in qf and Us open 2014 as Cilic played great.
Even let say he wins only two maybe one of AO 05 or 09 and Wimbledon 19 , he ends up with 22 and his competition on 19 and 18

Nothing to do with age is silly, I'm sorry.

And unless I see someone else doing better in Fed's position, I can't criticize him, I'm sorry.

Even some of those chokes were age related like USO 2011, USO 2015 and Wimb 2019. Wimb 2019 was more than just 40-15, he played lousy tiebreaks every time. That's definitely age related.

USO 2010 was not even a choke, Just a bad level from him.

 

[NAS]

Nothing to do with age is silly, I'm sorry.

And unless I see someone else doing better in Fed's position, I can't criticize him, I'm sorry.

Even some of those chokes were age related like USO 2011, USO 2015 and Wimb 2019.

Age related issues are to do with like us open where because of humidity or heat he has struggled in last few years but what has to do with Us open 2011 serving or us open 2009 serving, ok I am taking Wimbledon 2019 as age related issues which was not, he just failed to serve one point.
I am not talking about all losses but clearly us open 2009 or AO 05,09 Wimbledon 19 was some bad chokes Even he wins one he goes ahead

 

[mike danny]

Age related issues are to do with like us open where because of humidity or heat he has struggled in last few years but what has to do with Us open 2011 serving or us open 2009 serving, ok I am taking Wimbledon 2019 as age related issues which was not, he just failed to serve one point.
I am not talking about all losses but clearly us open 2009 or AO 05,09 Wimbledon 19 was some bad chokes Even he wins one he goes ahead

USO 2011 was still age related. Guy pretty much dropped his level in sets 3 and 4. I mean he was 30 going up against a peak GOAT, age would undoubtedly come into play eventually as there's no way he'd maintain the necessary level to compete with peak Djokovic over 5 sets.

Wimb 2019 he did badly even before 40-15. Played a lousy tiebreak each time. That's age.

USO 2015 was age related. Why do you think he got tight on those BPs?

AO 2009 wasn't a choke.

 

[JJGUY]

just found out French Open broadcasting was sold to NBC, which is really awful. I much prefer ESPN, they always have instant full match replay available and it's very organized. NBC/NBCSPORTS/PEACOCK, the matches are all over the place in their different channels and on different websites, you can't find where they were located, it's a complete mess, and there was no replay, in fact, you can't even find a decent highlight on their websites.

I hope NBC lose big big big money on Tokyo this year, that might force them to give up future sports events, they don't belong to sports broadcasting and should have no business buying any.

 

[Feather]

Fed did choke many winning positions, the only I think of Novak is us open 2013( another one can be AO 2014)
And it's nothing to do with age excuse, some of his loss has to do with he is not being clutch.
AO 2005 should have ended in four set, he was not loosing to Hewitt
AO 09 for me he was better player for four set but he lost first and third( something how Novak was better in first set in final but still loss)
US open 2009 was a one of the biggest choke, after all stupid FH to fh exchange, he still would have ended the final in four set( he was serving for set 2 and was break up in set 4)
US open 2010, this doesn't matter as he was not winning final
US open 2011, he was playing great and I see him beating Rafa, he did have a great year ending season, won Paris and yec
US open 2015 went on with 4/23 bp, nothing to do with age, yes some were saved by good second service of Novak but he was really tentative on others.
Wimbledon 2019 god another choke.
Not talking about Wimbledon 2018 as it was in qf and Us open 2014 as Cilic played great.
Even let say he wins only two maybe one of AO 05 or 09 and Wimbledon 19 , he ends up with 22 and his competition on 19 and 18

Just because a player lost after having match point, it doesn't mean he choked it. The tweener at AO 2005 was bad choice but Roger had very little chances to win that point. Perhaps he could have lobbed Marat Safin, who was very tall and the way Roger was running backwards, it was a very low percentage shot. Marat Safin would have mostly won that point and saved match point.

Regarding USO 2009, you can't say it's choke. Maybe you can say wrong tactics.

AO 2009 and US 2015 were winnable matches for Roger , had Roger been more clutch but it happens when you play Tennis for two decades. And certainly Roger was at an age disadvantage in the US 2015 match.

 

[Krish0608]

USO 2011 was still age related. Guy pretty much dropped his level in sets 3 and 4. I mean he was 30 going up against a peak GOAT, age would undoubtedly come into play eventually as there's no way he'd maintain the necessary level to compete with peak Djokovic over 5 sets.

Wimb 2019 he did badly even before 40-15. Played a lousy tiebreak each time. That's age.

USO 2015 was age related. Why do you think he got tight on those BPs?

AO 2009 wasn't a choke.

Agree with 2015. That was not a choke. That was just a post prime GOAT sparring with a GOAT at his peak. But 2011 was on his racket. That match was a choke. I don't know if he would have beaten Rafa in the final. I think he might have, but Roger should have won that SF. Roger had the GOAT status on his racket and let it slip so many times. Feels a bit disappointing.

 

[mike danny]

Agree with 2015. That was not a choke. That was just a post prime GOAT sparring with a GOAT at his peak. But 2011 was on his racket. That match was a choke. I don't know if he would have beaten Rafa in the final. I think he might have, but Roger should have won that SF. Roger had the GOAT status on his racket and let it slip so many times. Feels a bit disappointing.

It does, but then Djokodal don't even have to fight for their GOAT status as the Next Gen don't stand a chance anyway.

 

[Feather]

Agree with 2015. That was not a choke. That was just a post prime GOAT sparring with a GOAT at his peak. But 2011 was on his racket. That match was a choke. I don't know if he would have beaten Rafa in the final. I think he might have, but Roger should have won that SF. Roger had the GOAT status on his racket and let it slip so many times. Feels a bit disappointing.

2011 US SF was certainly a choke. In my earlier comment, I merely said Roger didn't choke USO. What I meant is, since the final is yet to be played, we can't say he choked the slam as he had to beat Rafa too. But Wimbledon 2019 was downright depressing. A slam was on his racquet.. an ace and it was 21.. that is the worst choke in the history of open era.. losing a prestigious slam by merely a point.. for me that was match that disappointed me the most.. nothing is not even close.. and it will forever remain that way!

 

[ACE of Hearts]

2011 US SF was certainly a choke. In my earlier comment, I merely said Roger didn't choke USO. What I meant is, since the final is yet to be played, we can't say he choked the slam as he had to beat Rafa too. But Wimbledon 2019 was downright depressing. A slam was on his racquet.. an ace and it was 21.. that is the worst choke in the history of open era.. losing a prestigious slam by merely a point.. for me that was match that disappointed me the most.. nothing is not even close.. and it will forever remain that way!

2015 us open was a joke. To say he couldn’t win that match is not true. 4 out of 23 on break points is a joke. He should have an open and that 2019 wimbledon. He left slams on the table. I don’t wanna hear not prime goat. Federer has had his chances and novak and has been pathetic . Federer was still good enough to win slams.

 

[sureshs]

Djokovic is the only the 3rd player after Rosewall and Laver to win the Double Career Slam.

He has already surpassed Fed and Nadal.

 

[3fees]

Lol, Laver in 1962 and 1969 won all 4 Slams in the same "Calendar Year",,Budge did it as well earlier, these are the only two Men's Tennis Players to accomplish this-4 Slams won in the same Calendar Year..

Cheers
3Fees

 

[mike danny]

I agree. @ACE of Hearts is a great poster. Generally not biased to any player. He says the way he sees it. That is why l like reading his posts. They are more objective.

Bwah ha ha ha

 

[tennis24x7]

I can't say I am that surprised that Novak came back from 2 sets to love down to win. I did not watch the whole match but from what I saw, can make a few observations:

tsitsipas looked mentally and physically exhausted (compared to Novak) by the time they got to the 4th set.
Novak looked a lot fresher and more intense in set 5. Almost as if the match has just begun. Which leads me to the next question. How can Novak be in much better shape over long matches compared to everyone he plays? What is his secret?

I do wonder whether the 2 sets to love down thing was just a ploy by Novak. One he used well during his match with Musetti. Typical hustler trick. Let the opponent play out of their skin, exhaust themselves mentally and physically and then come back and win.

I am with you here, he wanted this to go the 5 sets, you could literally see Tsitsi putting in weak balls after the 3rd set, he was trying to run around his backhand. What scares me is Djokovic didn't break a racquet, hit anyone(watched highlights only) and didn't even show much emotion after this or even Nadal's match.

 

[tennis24x7]

Djokovic is the only the 3rd player after Rosewall and Laver to win the Double Career Slam.

He has already surpassed Fed and Nadal.

I sure hope Nadal get another Australian

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

It does, but then Djokodal don't even have to fight for their GOAT status as the Next Gen don't stand a chance anyway.

I can agree on other slams but you gotta be kidding for RG'21. They guy had to go through the clay GOAT in grueling game to win the title eventually. One of his toughest slams out of all his career.

Before you say, Rafa was post prime and old, so is Novak. Was humiliated 8 months back at RG by the same guy. Rafa had built himself into form for RG. This was no cakewalk at all

Probably Wimbledon'18 too given that it started his resurgence

 

[Rozroz]

What scares me is Djokovic didn't break a racquet, hit anyone(watched highlights only) and didn't even show much emotion after this or even Nadal's match.

scares you in what way? in both matches he waited a bit before a primal scream to his box.

 

[tennis24x7]

scares you in what way? in both matches he waited a bit before a primal scream to his box.

Its almost like he knows he has got more GSs he can win

 

[veroniquem]

Hope Raonic / Dmitrov / Nishikori/ Goffin / Thiem are watching this match.

I hope they did too. It will make them feel so much better

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Bwah ha ha ha

Being a homer and not seeing the facts is worse. At least you admit that soon novak djokovic will be surpassing him.

 

[mike danny]

I can agree on other slams but you gotta be kidding for RG'21. They guy had to go through the clay GOAT in grueling game to win the title eventually. One of his toughest slams out of all his career.

Before you say, Rafa was post prime and old, so is Novak. Was humiliated 8 months back at RG by the same guy. Rafa had built himself into form for RG. This was no cakewalk at all

Probably Wimbledon'18 too given that it started his resurgence

These 2 were great, yeah.

But the Next Gen is still pretty bad.

 

[veroniquem]

If karma is real Djokovic will lose from 40-15.

Djoko is not a chicken like Fed

 

[EddieChang]

Djoko is not a chicken like Fed

lol

 

[GabeT]

God this is beautiful to see. This should have happened to Djokovic years ago.

What the Djoker giveth, the Dkojer can also taketh away

 

[Krish872007]

I’ll be taking time away from here if Novak wins this. Don’t want to read how great Novak is ( he isn’t) or Double career slam being a measure of greatness ( it isn’t ) or that he will win the CYGS. ( he won’t )

What happened to your "time away"?