RG2024 QF: Carlos Alcaraz[3] v Stefanos Tsitsipas[9]

[Oval_Solid]

stop with the smile thing

 

[FeroBango]

Brother in Christ he never smiled once today. **** me.

 

[FeroBango]

The interview and the questions on smile sound like a hundred nails on the driest blackboard.

 

[Vincent-C]

Only real silver lining for Stef is how eloquently and calmly he explained his complaint about the extended grunt, he may not be a complete airhead afterall.

And he's right: the shrieking makes it impossible to hear the sound of the ball coming off the racquet, which is
important info for the recipient. That *why* he does it.. punk.

 

[mike danny]

Such lacklustre returning from Tsitsipas

FTFY.

 

[nolefam_2024]

@FeroBango Alcaraz smile is back. I wanted someone to rob him off that. Very dangerous now.

 

[Vincent-C]

Been waiting years for another Alcaraz/Sinner slam match, and now that it's finally here it's with them both sleepwalking to the semis after fighting injuries throughout the clay season.

Not exactly what I was hoping for when the draw came out.

Go, Sinner.

 

[FeroBango]

@FeroBango Alcaraz smile is back. I wanted someone to rob him off that. Very dangerous now.

Nah he looked incredibly upset to even be out here. I died off cringe watching the smile questions.

 

[tennis_pro]

Still with Stan I'm pretty sure. They reunited a couple of years ago.

Man, Stan is almost 40. As much as I like him Norman is wasting his talents now.

 

[ibbi]

My favourite bit of that final game is when Tsitsipas was stood out in the doubles alley on return giving Alcaraz the whole court to serve to his forehand, Carlos went to his backhand anyway painting the outside of the line and he missed the return long.

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

Been waiting years for another Alcaraz/Sinner slam match, and now that it's finally here it's with them both sleepwalking to the semis after fighting injuries throughout the clay season.

Not exactly what I was hoping for when the draw came out.

Quite outstanding how they both skipped Rome and yet still reached the SFs with that much ease.

 

[ojo rojo]

People thought Stef was gonna win lol

 

[Carax]

People thought Stef was gonna win lol

Yeah, I was one of them. I'm an idiot lol.

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

Been waiting years for another Alcaraz/Sinner slam match, and now that it's finally here it's with them both sleepwalking to the semis after fighting injuries throughout the clay season.

Not exactly what I was hoping for when the draw came out.

I'm sorry but something does not compute for me...

you've been waiting years for them to meet again in a slam, but when the draw came out you didn't want them to meet?

You've been waiting years for them to meet in a slam, but the fact that they've both been dominant on their way to the semis makes their meeting uninteresting?

What am I missing here?

 

[Nappa]

To be honest Alcaraz was only at 60% as he knew he had this match whenever he wanted. Think Alcaraz wins the event now and easily tbh

That would mean 3 different GS … Nadals record would be at risk

 

[tennis24x7]

Tsitsipas is a total loser

Crowd tried to give him a boost and he hit 3 bh errors on return. WTF

Like I said before Nadal playbook for all one handers

 

[Rattie]

Why is the poll already closed? It´s still more than half an hour before the players step on the court... Regardless, Tsits in 4 I say.

Hey, I would've liked to have voted for Stef to win but poll closed prematurely.

Because you can only choose how many days the poll is open for. I created it at 4pm (my time zone) on Sunday and two days took it to 4pm today. If I had chosen 3 days then the poll would have remained open until tomorrow, long after the match finished. Last time I did that lots of people voted after the match, so it was a pointless poll.
Sorry but you can’t choose a specific time that polls close…unless someone can advise me differently.

 

[socallefty]

Quite outstanding how they both skipped Rome and yet still reached the SFs with that much ease.

Why did Djokovic play Geneva with knee issues? The man is a puzzle.

 

[MeatTornado]

I'm sorry but something does not compute for me...

you've been waiting years for them to meet again in a slam, but when the draw came out you didn't want them to meet?

You've been waiting years for them to meet in a slam, but the fact that they've both been dominant on their way to the semis makes their meeting uninteresting?

What am I missing here?

I was hoping if they met in the semis it would mean they would've played themselves into better form by now after a rough clay season.

You can call their performances dominant, but that's now how I've seen it by any stretch. Based on their form I'm not hopeful for another blockbuster like their USO match.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Because you can only choose how many days the poll is open for. I created it at 4pm (my time zone) on Sunday and two days took it to 4pm today. If I had chosen 3 days then the poll would have remained open until tomorrow, long after the match finished. Last time I did that lots of people voted after the match, so it was a pointless poll.
Sorry but you can’t choose a specific time that polls close…unless someone can advise me differently.

You can choose hours too. That's why in the match threads that I create, I keep the poll such that it ends about 15-30 minutes into the match.
Instead of 2 days, choose 48 hours, you get more flexibility that way.

 

[malbaker86]

Stef had an issue with Carlitos grunting

 

[robyrolfo]

The extending grunting is what somewhat turned me off Carlitos, unfortunately, I feel like it has been getting worse and worse over time. Good for Stef to have the balls to call out his gamemanship right in front of Carlos's face (even though the Greek is still getting pummeled tennis wise).

Seriously, when is the sport going to do something about this? Not only does Alcaraz extend his grunts sometimes, he varies them, which is even worse. It's bad enough that they allow it, but at the very least they should limit it to consistent grunts. Grunting louder or softer on different shots (something Serena did all the time on the women's side) should absolutely be a hinderance.

Woah, complaining about grunts is one thing. Calling people primates is another. You probably shouldn't go there

Um, what? Glad someone else explained this...

 

[Rattie]

You can choose hours too. That's why in the match threads that I create, I keep the poll such that it ends about 15-30 minutes into the match.
Instead of 2 days, choose 48 hours, you get more flexibility that way.

Thanks for replying. I’ve now noticed that you can change the day option to hours. My bad, I’ve never noticed it before. At least I know now

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Congrats alcaraz! Great performance

 

[middleballs]

As much as I love watching Alcaraz I can’t help feeling a bit sad for Tsitsipas. Where will he go from here? We all know the timeline, he got broken after losing to Djokovic here in 2021. Seemed like he found something this clay season but this loss most be painful. RG is one of the only places where he can make his BH work, it even looks pretty good at times. And still he didn’t even manage to snatch a set from the young Spaniard.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he falls off again after this.

 

[Vincent-C]

Yeah, I was one of them. I'm an idiot lol.

In my case it was "hoped", rather than thought- but yeah.

 

[socallefty]

As much as I love watching Alcaraz I can’t help feeling a bit sad for Tsitsipas. Where will he go from here? We all know the timeline, he got broken after losing to Djokovic here in 2021. Seemed like he found something this clay season but this loss most be painful. RG is one of the only places where he can make his BH work, it even looks pretty good at times. And still he didn’t even manage to snatch a set from the young Spaniard.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he falls off again after this.

What is there to feel sad about? His BH technique costs him against the very best players like Djokovic and Alcaraz who attack it relentlessly. His technique or lack thereof on the BH wing imposes a ceiling to what he can achieve. If he wants to break that ceiling, he needs to hire different coaches and fix his technique.

 

[tudwell]

Seriously, when is the sport going to do something about this? Not only does Alcaraz extend his grunts sometimes, he varies them, which is even worse. It's bad enough that they allow it, but at the very least they should limit it to consistent grunts. Grunting louder or softer on different shots (something Serena did all the time on the women's side) should absolutely be a hinderance.

Nobody grunts the same way on every shot. Once in a blue moon Federer would grunt hitting a second serve – is that a hindrance? I think if you allow any grunting then you allow all grunting, pretty much. I don’t think there’s any reasonable restriction to be had on volume or variety of grunt. The only one that really makes any sense as a clear line in the sand is length. The grunt can’t extend into the opponent’s shot or else it’s a hindrance. I didn’t see the match today but if Carlos was doing that he should have gotten a hindrance call in my opinion.

 

[middleballs]

What is there to feel sad about? His BH technique costs him against the very best players like Djokovic and Alcaraz who attack it relentlessly. His technique or lack thereof on the BH wing imposes a ceiling to what he can achieve. If he wants to break that ceiling, he needs to hire different coaches and fix his technique.

I should clarify by saying that I’m thrilled to see Alcaraz really living up to the expectations so far.
The BH problem is still a big, big problem for Stef, like I wrote. I just meant that it’s a bit sad to see someone being picked apart like that and many times seeming absolutely helpless.

 

[socallefty]

I should clarify by saying that I’m thrilled to see Alcaraz really living up to the expectations so far.
The BH problem is still a big, big problem for Stef, like I wrote. I just meant that it’s a bit sad to see someone being picked apart like that and many times seeming absolutely helpless.

I look at it as it is the nature of a sporting contest. The scoreboard tells you exactly where you stand unlike in life where there is no one scorecard. That is why I like competing in sports - you end up as a winner or loser with no grey area or excuses. Rarely is life so simple and easy to quantify outside of the sporting arena.

 

[Vincent-C]

Go, Sinner

 

[malbaker86]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798086069604515986

 

[RS]

Agree to disagree. There is a beauty associated to his FH on clay when he hits it.

Most beautiful shot in the sport.

 

[robyrolfo]

Nobody grunts the same way on every shot. Once in a blue moon Federer would grunt hitting a second serve – is that a hindrance? I think if you allow any grunting then you allow all grunting, pretty much. I don’t think there’s any reasonable restriction to be had on volume or variety of grunt. The only one that really makes any sense as a clear line in the sand is length. The grunt can’t extend into the opponent’s shot or else it’s a hindrance. I didn’t see the match today but if Carlos was doing that he should have gotten a hindrance call in my opinion.

There are a few players that grunt consistently (the same way on pretty much every shot). Sonnego's grunt is annoying and too long, but it's almost always the same. One of the Spanish guys was similar in that regard. I still don't think it should be allowed in that way either, when it is loud and long, but at least they aren't making it worse.

Yes, a lot of players grunt on occasion (on a really tough shot), but those are usually short and limited. We are talking about players that use the grunt rhythmically, to help with their timing or whatnot. But the problem is that it's unfair to the other player if it's hindering them.

And what do you mean, extend into the opponent's shot? That's too vague, and that is the problem. Same with having to stop when the ball bounced on the opponents side. What about a ball hit on a short hop, or half-volleyed off the ground?

It's all a little ridiculous, and nothing looks more lame and unsporting than having to let out an extra loud/long grunt when you are going for a winner, as if to tell the opponent and the crowd that you are about to hit a ball super hard and they have no chance of returning it. Alcaraz's insecurity is almost laughable at times.

 

[travlerajm]

Yeah, I was one of them. I'm an idiot lol.

I’m an idiot for thinking it would be competitive.

 

[Mainad]

Alcaraz was just amused by Tsitsipas' complaint. He passed by him at the changeover as he was arguing his point with the umpire and then he broke into a broad grin. He knew he had rattled Tsitsipas and got him where he wanted.

 

[Vincent-C]

There are a few players that grunt consistently (the same way on pretty much every shot). Sonnego's grunt is annoying and too long, but it's almost always the same. One of the Spanish guys was similar in that regard. I still don't think it should be allowed in that way either, when it is loud and long, but at least they aren't making it worse.

Yes, a lot of players grunt on occasion (on a really tough shot), but those are usually short and limited. We are talking about players that use the grunt rhythmically, to help with their timing or whatnot. But the problem is that it's unfair to the other player if it's hindering them.

And what do you mean, extend into the opponent's shot? That's too vague, and that is the problem. Same with having to stop when the ball bounced on the opponents side. What about a ball hit on a short hop, or half-volleyed off the ground?

It's all a little ridiculous, and nothing looks more lame and unsporting than having to let out an extra loud/long grunt when you are going for a winner, as if to tell the opponent and the crowd that you are about to hit a ball super hard and they have no chance of returning it. Alcaraz's insecurity is almost laughable at times.

Good thing the tiny one doesn't have a Lendl on the other side of the net, to help him get his mind right.
I remember Ivan sending JMac a few "attitude adjusting" FHs out there..

 

[tudwell]

There are a few players that grunt consistently (the same way on pretty much every shot). Sonnego's grunt is annoying and too long, but it's almost always the same. One of the Spanish guys was similar in that regard. I still don't think it should be allowed in that way either, when it is loud and long, but at least they aren't making it worse.

Yes, a lot of players grunt on occasion (on a really tough shot), but those are usually short and limited. We are talking about players that use the grunt rhythmically, to help with their timing or whatnot. But the problem is that it's unfair to the other player if it's hindering them.

And what do you mean, extend into the opponent's shot? That's too vague, and that is the problem. Same with having to stop when the ball bounced on the opponents side. What about a ball hit on a short hop, or half-volleyed off the ground?

It's all a little ridiculous, and nothing looks more lame and unsporting than having to let out an extra loud/long grunt when you are going for a winner, as if to tell the opponent and the crowd that you are about to hit a ball super hard and they have no chance of returning it. Alcaraz's insecurity is almost laughable at times.

I don’t think it’s vague. Maybe hard to gauge in real time, sometimes, but not vague. If Player A is still grunting when Player B makes contact with the ball, there’s grounds for a hindrance call. That seems to be about the only way to get a hindrance call via grunting. (Volleys are an odd case. Personally I’d be fine calling hindrances on the passing player if they’re still grunting while the opponent hits the volley; it’s up to them to shorten it since their opponent is at the net. But I don’t think that’s generally how it’s called.)

As for variety, what would you do with Nadal? Or Djokovic? Or Medvedev? Sometimes they grunt on every shot, other times they go entire games without uttering a peep. If they’ve been grunting all match and then suddenly stop, is that a hindrance? If they restart a few games later, is that a hindrance?

Edit: To expand, I don’t see how volume can be any kind of rubric for a hindrance violation. Unless we have a decibel meter on every court all the time (which seems a little ridiculous), it would be entirely too subjective. Variety also seems a poor rubric. Almost no one grunts while volleying or slicing, even if they grunt on topspin shots. Is that allowed? And different topspin shots require different levels of exertion and so are understandably going to elicit different kinds of grunts. It would be up to the umpire to decide if a particular grunt was within the normal bounds of allowable variety or if it was gamesmanship – again, it’s all too subjective. The umpire would have to gauge a player’s intent on each and every grunt. That’s what’s vague.

Length seems to be the only metric I can think of that makes sense to restrict. It’s objective (it’s not merely up to the umpire if the rubric is, for example, “grunting while the opponent hits the ball”) and there‘s also a clear logic for disallowing it. A grunt that’s overlapping with the opponent’s shot is probably the most clear and obvious scenario of a grunt distracting or hindering the opponent.

An opponent who grunts differently every time may indeed be distracting, but I don’t see any reasonable way of restricting that (unless it extends into the opponent’s shot, of course). It’d be like deliberately taking a variable amount of time between serve so as to prevent the returner from getting into a rhythm. Clearly a form of gamesmanship but not one that could really reasonably be restricted.

 

[Mainad]

Alcaraz is now 6-0 vs Tsitsipas and counting. In his post match presser Stef practically admitted he didn't know how to handle Alcaraz as their H2H makes abundantly clear. He better start thinking of a way fast or the already embarassing gap in their H2H is going to become much more so!

 

[Rattie]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798103390729220513

 

[Zetty]

I've always hated the look of the Tsits serve – his whole game basically looks like Federer trying to play tennis in the Tin Man costume from Wizard of Oz. The mechanics are there but everything is so stiff and cramped.

I mean, he's a huge human being, there's no way he could have the silky movement of a Federer or similarly sized player.

 

[Boom-Boom]

Stef had an issue with Carlitos grunting

his grunt is more yelling and a real hindrance indeed

 

[TennisFan3]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798103390729220513

He does have a lot of swagger. Can't deny that.
Big match coming up vs Sinner.

 

[Airspun]

To be fair to Steph there were a lot of points where Carlos reached Robin haase‘s goat joke level of grunting hindrance

 

[socallefty]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798103390729220513

Probably thinking of victimizing the Tsitsi BH while he was dancing. Seemed a bit more nervous playing the Djokovic BH in the semi last year.

 

[NeutralFan]

Couldn't watch the match, Is tiny in great form? Can he beat Sinner or Z?

 

[Vincent-C]

Couldn't watch the match, Is tiny in great form? Can he beat Sinner or Z?

Kral says Alky's gonna get crushed, based on today's form. I effing hope so.


"Unnhhgghhh!!!!!"

 

[Boom-Boom]

To be fair to Steph there were a lot of points where Carlos reached Robin haase‘s goat joke level of grunting hindrance

Nadal-like, Serena-like or Sabalenka-like?
most ridiculous being Azarenka

all of the above should get warnings / fines

horrible for tennis reputation when you have to turn the sound off to watch properly

 

[Vincent-C]

Nadal-like, Serena-like or Sabalenka-like?
most ridiculous being Azarenka

all of the above should get warnings / fines

horrible for tennis reputation when you have to turn the sound off to watch properly

A friend and casual fan told me he's stopped watching tennis because of the absurd grunting and incessant fist-pumping.

 

[robyrolfo]

Alcaraz was just amused by Tsitsipas' complaint. He passed by him at the changeover as he was arguing his point with the umpire and then he broke into a broad grin. He knew he had rattled Tsitsipas and got him where he wanted.

Hmmm, something tells me you are one of those guys that wasn't amused by Simeone exaggerating to get Beckham thrown off in that World Cup back in the day (I forget which one, because after a while all the awful England showings start to melt into just one big joke). So why the inconsistency?

I don’t think it’s vague. Maybe hard to gauge in real time, sometimes, but not vague. If Player A is still grunting when Player B makes contact with the ball, there’s grounds for a hindrance call. That seems to be about the only way to get a hindrance call via grunting. (Volleys are an odd case. Personally I’d be fine calling hindrances on the passing player if they’re still grunting while the opponent hits the volley; it’s up to them to shorten it since their opponent is at the net. But I don’t think that’s generally how it’s called.)
As for variety, what would you do with Nadal? Or Djokovic? Or Medvedev? Sometimes they grunt on every shot, other times they go entire games without uttering a peep. If they’ve been grunting all match and then suddenly stop, is that a hindrance? If they restart a few games later, is that a hindrance?
Edit: To expand, I don’t see how volume can be any kind of rubric for a hindrance violation. Unless we have a decibel meter on every court all the time (which seems a little ridiculous), it would be entirely too subjective. Variety also seems a poor rubric. Almost no one grunts while volleying or slicing, even if they grunt on topspin shots. Is that allowed? And different topspin shots require different levels of exertion and so are understandably going to elicit different kinds of grunts. It would be up to the umpire to decide if a particular grunt was within the normal bounds of allowable variety or if it was gamesmanship – again, it’s all too subjective. The umpire would have to gauge a player’s intent on each and every grunt. That’s what’s vague.
Length seems to be the only metric I can think of that makes sense to restrict. It’s objective (it’s not merely up to the umpire if the rubric is, for example, “grunting while the opponent hits the ball”) and there‘s also a clear logic for disallowing it. A grunt that’s overlapping with the opponent’s shot is probably the most clear and obvious scenario of a grunt distracting or hindering the opponent.
An opponent who grunts differently every time may indeed be distracting, but I don’t see any reasonable way of restricting that (unless it extends into the opponent’s shot, of course). It’d be like deliberately taking a variable amount of time between serve so as to prevent the returner from getting into a rhythm. Clearly a form of gamesmanship but not one that could really reasonably be restricted.

Honestly, I'm not even sure what the current rule is, but saying it can extend as long as you want, so long as it stops before your opponent makes contact, is not the solution. I mean, are you going to tell me that on a high ball that your opponent is lining up to hit an overhead on, you can do some ridiculously long grunt that lasts for the entire flight of the ball, and stop just a split second before they actually hit it?

If it were up to me, there would be a hard stop as soon as the ball crosses the net onto your opponents end of the court, which is obviously difficult to police (just like it is already now), or just get rid of it altogether somehow. Yes, that would require the umpire to use some judgement, and I realize that is highly disliked in tennis (unlike in other sports, where officials do it multiple times in a game with things like foul calls).

The biggest issue is the extended grunts. There is a huge difference between grunting as you hit the ball, in that small moment of exertion, and continuing to hold the grunt/noise note well after the exertion is over. That stuff is BS, and it needs to stop.

Nadal-like, Serena-like or Sabalenka-like?
most ridiculous being Azarenka
all of the above should get warnings / fines
horrible for tennis reputation when you have to turn the sound off to watch properly

Exactly. The ATP and WTA are always trying to grow the sport, and yet they don't address an issue that is turning people off? Some players are pretty much unwatchable.