Ridiculous ranking rule costs Nadal and Verdasco ranking points

[seffina]

correct...

Heh. I just downloaded the rules book (as I'm an expert in wasting time), so I'm randomly listing things that I find interesting. I'll stop.

 

[NandoMania]

Legitimate injuries that prevent you from playing / traveling are excusable (it's in the rules somewhere, I'm sure woodrow knows where it is). They can't penalize you if you have a broken foot now can they?

Apparently, they take away your rating points whether or not you have a legitimate injury UNLESS YOU PROMOTE THEIR EVENT within what? 2 days? even if you have to get up off your sick bed or walk with crutches or fly haflway around the world right before Davis Cup to do it.

I actually got to hit with him today in Las Vegas at the international tennis center.

Anyway he has a stress facture ever since his Nadal match at the AO. He will pull out of Dubai but it has not been officially announced yet.

 

[NandoMania]

They don't take away the points penalty, but they do take away the fines and the suspensions. Which is fair, IMO.

I also just saw that once you play certain amount of Masters matches on the tour or are of a certain age, you don't have to play as many Masters. Interesting.

I don't think it's fair if the player has a legitimate injury, but either way the obvious solution is:

Simply do not enter any tournament prior to 30 days before it starts.
Better yet, always wait until the last minute before entering any 500 or 1000 tournament.


Because otherwise you're liable to get a "0/zero" figured into your average if for some reason you happen to have a legitimate reason for withdrawing and don't happen to want to fly half-way around the world in order to donate your likeness and image to someplace in the boonies.

 

[egn]

Ain't it the truth? So sad.

In response to your idiocy it is a real and Nando also recieved punishment.

Besides in case you have not noticed well you probably haven't even looked at Fed's schedule at the moment he will be penalized as he only had 3 500 series events and now he only has 2. So Nadal should not even complain. Fed is not grabbing that number 1 ranking unless Nadal plays like crap. He isn't even playing Monte Carlo. So what is with all this conspiracy? Fed will get penalized as he will fail to meet the 500 series requirement.

 

[edmondsm]

It makes the news on TW, especially if Federer is involved, trust me!

Really? If Federer is hanging around some part of the world his day to day activities are chronicled on TW. Please show where this happens.

 

[edmondsm]

Rankings dont mean sheet. They simply represent who plays the most. The sytem needs to be changed so that greedy promoters do not ruin the sport.

Did you not notice that they changed the rankings system this year? It heavily favors players that perform at the masters and slams (like say, Nadal for instance).

Nadal fans are amazing. Since he is 22 and struggling with injuries you want the rankings to change for him, you think they should abolish hardcourts, what next? Maybe they should move the USO to Madrid.

 

[woodrow1029]

Did you not notice that they changed the rankings system this year? It heavily favors players that perform at the masters and slams (like say, Nadal for instance).

Nadal fans are amazing. Since he is 22 and struggling with injuries you want the rankings to change for him, you think they should abolish hardcourts, what next? Maybe they should move the USO to Madrid.

Or Mallorca??

 

[shawn1122]

1. Federer promoted the event.
2. Verdasco didn't.
3. Nadal has played tournaments this month.

That's all you need to know to understand how this happened. There is no conspiracy or any ********* ******** like that. They made this rule because players were blowing off these level 500 tournaments as if they were nothing, with their fake injuries and such. If you think this rule is unfair, well the players brought this on themselves.

Rules change. It's up to you to figure out the best way to adapt to them and Federer showed here that he is clearly the most experienced with the ATP ranking system (not anything to brag about, since he is the oldest of the three). Yes, Nadal may be genuinely injured, but the rule is trying to separate real injuries from fake ones by using the amount of time spent away from competitive play. It may not be the best way to do it, it will fail sometimes, but it seems to be the best they have for now.

 

[veroniquem]

Really? If Federer is hanging around some part of the world his day to day activities are chronicled on TW. Please show where this happens.

All the time! Right now the buzz is that he's hitting balls with Cahill as a trial period before hiring him as a coach...

 

[veroniquem]

1. Federer promoted the event.
2. Verdasco didn't.
3. Nadal has played tournaments this month.

That's all you need to know to understand how this happened. There is no conspiracy or any ********* ******** like that. They made this rule because players were blowing off these level 500 tournaments as if they were nothing, with their fake injuries and such. If you think this rule is unfair, well the players brought this on themselves.

Rules change. It's up to you to figure out the best way to adapt to them and Federer showed here that he is clearly the most experienced with the ATP ranking system (not anything to brag about, since he is the oldest of the three). Yes, Nadal may be genuinely injured, but the rule is trying to separate real injuries from fake ones by using the amount of time spent away from competitive play. It may not be the best way to do it, it will fail sometimes, but it seems to be the best they have for now.

If that's the best they can do, it seems quite terrible, we're not talking about a partly efficient rule here but about a rule that achieves the exact opposite to what it's designed for (encourage the players to withdraw more rather than less)! Anyway it's up to the players themselves to complain about it, if they don't, then I guess they're fine with it...

 

[veroniquem]

In response to your idiocy it is a real and Nando also recieved punishment.

Besides in case you have not noticed well you probably haven't even looked at Fed's schedule at the moment he will be penalized as he only had 3 500 series events and now he only has 2. So Nadal should not even complain. Fed is not grabbing that number 1 ranking unless Nadal plays like crap. He isn't even playing Monte Carlo. So what is with all this conspiracy? Fed will get penalized as he will fail to meet the 500 series requirement.

Nadal is not complaining (AFAIK). WE are the ones saying that rule is weird.

 

[veroniquem]

Well, that's kind of lame. I'm sure you could appeal it somehow though. I think having a broken foot is a legitimate excuse for not attending promotional activities.



The new rules were to prevent players from using "fake" injuries so that they wouldn't have to play in a tournament that they did not want to. I think those who are legitimately injured should get a free pass.

Oh but there's no such thing as a legitimate injury anymore. Actually I assume if your injury is fake it will be much easier to travel around the globe and do some parading for the sponsors, the players who are really injured or very sick will undoubtedly prefer staying put rather than risk making it worse by running around for the sole sake of some clownish promotional affairs. So the new system supports and rewards liars and fakers 100%. Good job.

 

[edmondsm]

All the time! Right now the buzz is that he's hitting balls with Cahill as a trial period before hiring him as a coach...

See that's news. "Federer attends luncheon" (which is probably the sort of thing he was doing in Dubai) doesn't usually come up around here.

 

[veroniquem]

They don't take away the points penalty, but they do take away the fines and the suspensions. Which is fair, IMO.

I also just saw that once you play certain amount of Masters matches on the tour or are of a certain age, you don't have to play as many Masters. Interesting.

What age would that be? 27? (Just joking )

 

[shawn1122]

If that's the best they can do, it seems quite terrible, we're not talking about a partly efficient rule here but about a rule that achieves the exact opposite to what it's designed for (encourage the players to withdraw more rather than less)! Anyway it's up to the players themselves to complain about it, if they don't, then I guess they're fine with it...

It does not encourage players to play less. If players play less, then they lose potential points for every tournament they miss.

In other words, skipping three tournaments intentionally to ensure that you don't get a point penalty on the fourth is illogical, and it is not something someone would want to do intentionally.

 

[egn]

Nadal is not complaining (AFAIK). WE are the ones saying that rule is weird.

Sorry there was supposed to be a fans after Nadal.

 

[NandoMania]

1. Federer promoted the event.
2. Verdasco didn't.
3. Nadal has played tournaments this month.

That's all you need to know to understand how this happened. There is no conspiracy or any ********* ******** like that. They made this rule because players were blowing off these level 500 tournaments as if they were nothing, with their fake injuries and such. If you think this rule is unfair, well the players brought this on themselves.

How *********** ******** of you! The "event" was in boontown ****hole, Roger's Residence.

Nonetheless, the solution is quite obvious: Any player who wants to avoid having a ZERO averaged into his ranking should simply wait until the last minute before entering any 500 or 1000 ATP tournament.

That is 100% in keeping with this type of elitist rule made for multimillionaires. Any player who is not a multimillionaire cannot afford to enter a tournament any earlier.

p.s. Your #3 is f-a-l-s-e.

 

[imajica77]

For Christ sakes will you babes stop going on about this. The rules are the rules. Every player is subject to them. Get a life and stop trying to live yours thru Nadal. Besides, since you seem to think Nadal is so much better the Federer then you shouldn't worry that he will loose he number one ranking.

 

[Love Game]

For ***** sakes will you babes stop going on about this. The rules are the rules. Every player is subject to them. Get a life and stop trying to live yours thru Nadal. Besides, since you seem to think Nadal is so much better the Federer then you shouldn't worry that he will loose he number one ranking.

Please do not blaspheme.

And please stop attacking other members by calling them names.

The issue is whether or not atp players should register for any atp tournament any earlier than they absolutely have to in order to avoid having a big, fat zero/O averaged in to their rankings, just in case they are actually injured or not as wealthy as the top 5 players to fly half-way around the world to do a commercial for the super rich of the world who use tennis as a method of promoting tourism.

there's no need to call people babies or to insult anybody's religion about it. as joe friday says: stick to the facts, ma'am, just the facts.

 

[shawn1122]

How *********** ******** of you! The "event" was in boontown ****hole, Roger's Residence.

Nonetheless, the solution is quite obvious: Any player who wants to avoid having a ZERO averaged into his ranking should simply wait until the last minute before entering any 500 or 1000 ATP tournament.

That is 100% in keeping with this type of elitist rule made for multimillionaires. Any player who is not a multimillionaire cannot afford to enter a tournament any earlier.

p.s. Your #3 is f-a-l-s-e.

#3 is true, the Rotterdam final was played on the 15th of February.

And is it Federer's fault that Dubai is his residence? No. Saying this rule is stupid just because it happened to work for Federer and against Nadal in this ONE situation doesnt make sense.

Nadal is as guilty as every other player when it comes to last minute pull outs. He is paying the price for it now in ranking points, I'm sure Federer will pay for it too sooner or later.

 

[edberg505]

Please do not blaspheme.

And please stop attacking other members by calling them names.

The issue is whether or not atp players should register for any atp tournament any earlier than they absolutely have to in order to avoid having a big, fat zero/O averaged in to their rankings, just in case they are actually injured or not as wealthy as the top 5 players to fly half-way around the world to do a commercial for the super rich of the world who use tennis as a method of promoting tourism.

there's no need to call people babies or to insult anybody's religion about it. as joe friday says: stick to the facts, ma'am, just the facts.

LOL, I'm pretty sure that word that is censored is not the word you think it is. I may be wrong though.

 

[Love Game]

LOL, I'm pretty sure that word that is censored is not the word you think it is. I may be wrong though.

No need to guess. You can see exactly what it was by reading it. I simply refused to repeat the blasphemy by including it in the quote.

 

[edmondsm]

No need to guess. You can see exactly what it was by reading it. I simply refused to repeat the blasphemy by including it in the quote.

Not everyone here is an evangelical christian. If the mods don't censor it then you have no right to expect someone to not say it.

 

[edberg505]

No need to guess. You can see exactly what it was by reading it. I simply refused to repeat the blasphemy by including it in the quote.

Well, I've seen the word/name you think it is typed several times so it can't be that word.

 

[edmondsm]

Well, I've seen the word/name you think it is typed several times so it can't be that word.

You don't understand. Love Game censored the post herself. Go back and read the original, it was not censored by TW.

 

[edberg505]

You don't understand. Love Game censored the post herself. Go back and read the original, it was not censored by TW.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, pardon me. LOL. I didn't notice. I just looked at the number of asterisk. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Gen]

Rules should be arranged in such a way that they work in the same manner for everybody. In this particular case Nadal who was really injured in Rotterdam is penalized, and Federer with his alleged back injury (which doesn't prevent him from training) came to the player's party, kissed Murray, infected him with mono, and escaped 0-pointer. Wonderful!

 

[woodrow1029]

Rules should be arranged in such a way that they work in the same manner for everybody. In this particular case Nadal who was really injured in Rotterdam is penalized, and Federer with his alleged back injury (which doesn't prevent him from training) came to the player's party, kissed Murray, infected him with mono, and escaped 0-pointer. Wonderful!

Grow up troll.

 

[TheTruth]

In response to your idiocy it is a real and Nando also recieved punishment.

Besides in case you have not noticed well you probably haven't even looked at Fed's schedule at the moment he will be penalized as he only had 3 500 series events and now he only has 2. So Nadal should not even complain. Fed is not grabbing that number 1 ranking unless Nadal plays like crap. He isn't even playing Monte Carlo. So what is with all this conspiracy? Fed will get penalized as he will fail to meet the 500 series requirement.

I didn't bother to read your response since you started out by calling me an idiot. To me, anyone who starts a debate with an insult isn't worthy of a discussion. In the future come correct, or not at all. I don't have to be insulted by you.

 

[TheTruth]

Oh but there's no such thing as a legitimate injury anymore. Actually I assume if your injury is fake it will be much easier to travel around the globe and do some parading for the sponsors, the players who are really injured or very sick will undoubtedly prefer staying put rather than risk making it worse by running around for the sole sake of some clownish promotional affairs. So the new system supports and rewards liars and fakers 100%. Good job.

So true......

 

[TheTruth]

This new "rule" is so obvious it's pathetic. The good thing is, all the shenanigans in the world aren't going to change anything. The more they "cheat" for Roger, the more he seems to lose. So cheat on, organisers. You won't stop Rafa!

 

[luckyboy1300]

This new "rule" is so obvious it's pathetic. The good thing is, all the shenanigans in the world aren't going to change anything. The more they "cheat" for Roger, the more he seems to lose. So cheat on, organisers. You won't stop Rafa!

hahaha so funny, so epic, so TYPICAL

 

[egn]

This new "rule" is so obvious it's pathetic. The good thing is, all the shenanigans in the world aren't going to change anything. The more they "cheat" for Roger, the more he seems to lose. So cheat on, organisers. You won't stop Rafa!

How is it cheating for Roger? All players are given the rule book. Rafa knows the rule. How is it so obvious it's pathetic. They made this simply to get Nadal. You are telling me that a guy sat around in a room and was like okay there are going to be these 500 tournaments that Nadal is going to play back to back but he is not going to be able to play the second one and therefore we slap a big 0 in his ranking spot. I mean come on the rule simply in state in the rule book. There is no attempt to cheat there. Rafa got the bad end of it, but I doubt it was simply made to screw him. If they did not penalize Rafa how about Nando? He got hit also? He would be like wtf? I don't doubt that they are all, Roger, Rafa and Nano injuried but at the same time they put a rule into place and they need to enforce it. The rule makes sense. Players book tournaments and can't ditch them all. Roddick is also getting penalized. They are simply trying to make players play a certain amount of tournaments and avoid fake injuries or last minute back outs. Problem is there will be times it will hurt those legitimately withdrawing. But does Nadal even have more than 4 500 events scheduled?

Oh and apologizes for the idiocy remark it was out of line.

 

[veroniquem]

This new "rule" is so obvious it's pathetic. The good thing is, all the shenanigans in the world aren't going to change anything. The more they "cheat" for Roger, the more he seems to lose. So cheat on, organisers. You won't stop Rafa!

In the form he's showing right now I don't think a tsunami would stop him, much less a few incoherent rules!

 

[TheTruth]

How is it cheating for Roger? All players are given the rule book. Rafa knows the rule. How is it so obvious it's pathetic. They made this simply to get Nadal. You are telling me that a guy sat around in a room and was like okay there are going to be these 500 tournaments that Nadal is going to play back to back but he is not going to be able to play the second one and therefore we slap a big 0 in his ranking spot. I mean come on the rule simply in state in the rule book. There is no attempt to cheat there. Rafa got the bad end of it, but I doubt it was simply made to screw him. If they did not penalize Rafa how about Nando? He got hit also? He would be like wtf? I don't doubt that they are all, Roger, Rafa and Nano injuried but at the same time they put a rule into place and they need to enforce it. The rule makes sense. Players book tournaments and can't ditch them all. Roddick is also getting penalized. They are simply trying to make players play a certain amount of tournaments and avoid fake injuries or last minute back outs. Problem is there will be times it will hurt those legitimately withdrawing. But does Nadal even have more than 4 500 events scheduled?

Oh and apologizes for the idiocy remark it was out of line.

I see a lot of cheating going on in the ATP. I called for the challenge system years ago. Sometimes the cheating was blatant. Sometimes it was subtle.

Do I think people sit in board rooms and make decisions that affect some and not all? Absolutely.

Thanks for this. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we can't be civil. I appreciate it.

 

[edmondsm]

This new "rule" is so obvious it's pathetic. The good thing is, all the shenanigans in the world aren't going to change anything. The more they "cheat" for Roger, the more he seems to lose. So cheat on, organisers. You won't stop Rafa!

Ah yes. So fair and objective you are.

 

[Safinator_1]

Your rantings and complaints wont do a thing to change this Corrupt and injustice system unless you are all suicide rs o.0.

Other than that just pray that justice will prevail and Federer his precious 500 points too its only fair

 

[Zaragoza]

It's a Conspiracy against Rafito... poor boy...


Those darn ATP managers creating rules just to tick him of!


ps:mediocrity is questioning the rules when they dont suit you! but going deaf, dumb and blid when they are ok for you!

I expected this kind of "insightful" reply from you to my reasonable post and you didn't disappoint. This is just another display of mediocrity from you, you can't help it. Most people here agreed it's a ridiculous rule.

It's so difficult to find things to fill that empty space between Acapulco and DC/IW.

ATP actually makes it too easy with their rules (for those who are interested on ranking rules, which apparently is not your case).

Federer got knocked out in the first or second round last year by Murray so he didn't actually have any points on Dubai anyway. therefore a 0-pointer made no difference

Yes, it still makes a difference because he can add his 4 best results to his ranking. Nadal and Verdasco lost the right to add their 4 best results.

Verdasco hasn't played either since the AO because he was injured and he got the 0-pointer penalty, Federer didn't. Why the difference? Because Federer is living in Dubai so he could go to some promotional activity whereas Verdasco lives too far away.
And see what the rule says: "A player who is out of competition for 30 or more days, due to a verified injury, will not receive any penalties".
The Australian Open final was on Feb.1st and the post-Dubai rankings were 28 days later (not even 30) so how could they even apply that rule right after Dubai?

"A player who is out of competition for 30 or more days, due to a verified injury, will not receive any penalties."

Is Federer out of competition for 30 or more days? Yes.
Is Nadal out of competition for 30 or more days? No.

Here is your answer.

But you will agree that if some player is legitimately injured and can't play but he recovers in less than 30 days, he should not receive any penalty for this. That's what happened to Nadal after Rotterdam.
And Verdasco, like Federer, hasn't played since the AO but he got the penalty because he lives too far from Dubai and it's not reasonable to ask him to travel there just for some promotional activity. It's not a fair rule and that was the point of my OP. It affected and will affect more players than Nadal.

Besides in case you have not noticed well you probably haven't even looked at Fed's schedule at the moment he will be penalized as he only had 3 500 series events and now he only has 2. So Nadal should not even complain. Fed is not grabbing that number 1 ranking unless Nadal plays like crap. He isn't even playing Monte Carlo. So what is with all this conspiracy? Fed will get penalized as he will fail to meet the 500 series requirement.

Federer will not be penalized. It's his choice to play or not those tournaments, that's not a penalty.
Nadal, Verdasco and others have been penalized for being injured and not playing. By the way, most of us are just saying that the current rule is unfair, not that there's a conspiracy.

Oh but there's no such thing as a legitimate injury anymore. Actually I assume if your injury is fake it will be much easier to travel around the globe and do some parading for the sponsors, the players who are really injured or very sick will undoubtedly prefer staying put rather than risk making it worse by running around for the sole sake of some clownish promotional affairs. So the new system supports and rewards liars and fakers 100%. Good job.

Agreed.

Nadal is as guilty as every other player when it comes to last minute pull outs. He is paying the price for it now in ranking points, I'm sure Federer will pay for it too sooner or later.

Pulling out because of a legit injury makes someone guilty?

Problem is there will be times it will hurt those legitimately withdrawing. But does Nadal even have more than 4 500 events scheduled?

Davis Cup and (I think) Montecarlo count as 500 events despite giving more than 500 points to the winner.
So if Nadal plays Davis Cup, Rotterdam, Montecarlo and Barcelona only his 3 best results will count, and if he doesn't play a 500 event after the USO only his 2 best results will count. He can lose many ranking points earned on the court.