Right tactic for Djokovic to beat Nadal at RG...

Fritz

Banned
Watching RG-13 semifinal I noticed that Djokovic was taking attacking initiative during almost every point, which is not a bad tactic, but courts on Chatrier are quite slower than in Rome where Djokovic had success with that tactic. Novak doesn't posses the same firepower as Soderling and it takes enormous efforts to blast Rafa out of that court. Moreover it's quite naive to hope that everything will click playing in such risky manner by basically smashing every ball to the corner. I wouldn't say that Djokovic played his best vs Nadal on that day, it was certainly a good performance, but still not enough to beat Rafa, although extremely close.

Djokovic still has the ability to beat Rafa at RG, but he needs to do it hard way by outlasting Nadal like in AO-12 final. Nole basically should play with the same strategy as at WTF-14 where he was perfectly controlling the court with his movement, not forcing much action, but slowly and confidently turning points in his favor by excellent combinational and counter-attacking skills. There is no wonder elixir for Djokovic to accomplish this task, the only question would be in the level of Novak's form approaching RG, which means that he should win a few Masters before RG. There is no easy way out, Djokovic should earn it.

Look at the history of last clay seasons: In 2012 Djokovic had terrible clay Masters season, so no wonder that he lost FO final. In 2013 Djokovic won Monte-Carlo, but as Nole said he wasn't training much after that and ended in losing to Dimitrov and Berdych before RG, the guys Nole should beat with closed eyes. In 2014 Novak got wrist injury in Monte-Carlo, won Rome, but neither of Djokovic( lost a set to Ferrer,Raonic) and Nadal( lost a set to Youzhny, Simon and Murray) were in a great form during the tournament. Nadal had been raising his level at RG with every match, while with Nole it's a different story and he still suffered from injury. Djokovic's best chance to win FO was in 2011, a year when Nole swept clay masters season by winning 2 Masters in a row before RG. Djokovic had that perfect mix of physics, attacking potential and mental toughness, but Federer stopped him. Let's see what will happen in 2015.

I think it's not impossible for Djokovic to dethrone Nadal at RG, he just needs to bring close to WTF-14 form to RG. Easier said than done. Maybe he doesn't need to be that good as in WTF group stage where he settled a record for the least games lost, but close to that form. As I stated before Nole isn't kind of a power player like Soderling who won 1 game vs Nadal in Rome-09 and a few weeks later played almost perfect match in slam. Of course there is still a small chance that Djoko could play a perfect match, but better to keep it safe, play great clay Masters season, gradually improve the form and properly calculate his peak for the final.

Your thoughts on topic?
 

Nadal>>>>>Federer

Professional
There is none. Novak will never win RG by beating Nadal. He was close in 2013 but made the biggest choke in sports history on the net incident.
 

Fritz

Banned
There is none. Novak will never win RG by beating Nadal. He was close in 2013 but made the biggest choke in sports history on the net incident.

Why not? If(as you said) he was close one time then what prevents Djokovic from finishing the job next time?

The thing with Novak is that when he brings his A game he's playing at arguably highest level ever, even higher than Federer. Just look how he played in WTF group stage. That's why I'm saying if Djokovic will be able to bring his real best then his victory is basically inevitable, even if there will be Nadal on the other side of the net.
 

Nadal>>>>>Federer

Professional
Why not? If(as you said) he was close one time then what prevents Djokovic from finishing the job next time?

The thing with Novak is that when he brings his A game he's playing at arguably highest level ever, even higher than Federer. Just look how he played in WTF group stage. That's why I'm saying if Djokovic will be able to bring his real best then his victory is basically inevitable, even if there will be Nadal on the other side of the net.

WTF is on HC. RG is on clay. The reason why is because Novak choked and knows he cannot win. He choked in 2013 and 2014. Novak just cannot win because he will choke... end of story
 

Fritz

Banned
Avoid Pascal Maria i.e. have unbiased fair match and be healthy. Nothing else is needed.

One or two judge's mistakes shouldn't decide the outcome of the match. If Nadal won it then he must have been a little stronger, no excuses in that one for Djokovic and nobody to blame except for himself.
 

Fritz

Banned
WTF is on HC. RG is on clay. The reason why is because Novak choked and knows he cannot win. He choked in 2013 and 2014. Novak just cannot win because he will choke... end of story

WTF is very slow these days, so it could be comparable to clay. Are you implying that Djokovic will still choke no matter in what kind of form Djokovic will approach the match vs Nadal at RG?
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
Watch Nishikori tactics in Madrid final. Perfect solution to Nadal's game on clay. I don't think anybody else has ever exposed nadal on clay like he did.

Imo he beats Nadal there if they meet next year.
 

stiggytennis

Semi-Pro
He needs it to be a cool day and for it to have rained in the morning.

I agree with that.
Murray this year had that match in Rome in damper conditions,but was destroyed on hot conditions at RG.
Just shows how much conditions mean,especially on clay.
 

Fritz

Banned
Watch Nishikori tactics in Madrid final. Perfect solution to Nadal's game on clay. I don't think anybody else has ever exposed nadal on clay like he did.

Imo he beats Nadal there if they meet next year.

Nadal was quite awful in that match, not the case at RG where he always plays near his very best.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Some facts for the OP to consider:

1. In clay matches over best of 5 sets, Nadal's record is 89 wins and 1 loss
2. 7 of those 89 wins were against Djokovic.
 

Fritz

Banned
Some facts for the OP to consider:

1. In clay matches over best of 5 sets, Nadal's record is 89 wins and 1 loss
2. 7 of those 89 wins were against Djokovic.

Are you suggesting Djokovic to give up?:)

“Roland Garros is and was and still will be one of the biggest goals that I have. I’ll keep on trying, of course,” said Djokovic, who has four Australian Open crowns, two at Wimbledon and a single US Open triumph.

Sorry mate, but seems like Nole refuses to give up on this tournament.
 

Mr.Snrub

Banned
Watch Nishikori tactics in Madrid final. Perfect solution to Nadal's game on clay. I don't think anybody else has ever exposed nadal on clay like he did.

Imo he beats Nadal there if they meet next year.
The Nishikori hype around here is something else. His best results last year were Madrid and US Open and both times it completely decimated his body making it to the end of the tournament. He turns 25 this year he's not some fresh faced youngster straight out of kindergarten. He's not beating Nadal in 5 on clay. Ever.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Are you suggesting Djokovic to give up?:)

“Roland Garros is and was and still will be one of the biggest goals that I have. I’ll keep on trying, of course,” said Djokovic, who has four Australian Open crowns, two at Wimbledon and a single US Open triumph.

Sorry mate, but seems like Nole refuses to give up on this tournament.

Sorry mate, but Nadal is going for La Decima next year. Therefore, he's got as much motivation as ever.
 

Fritz

Banned
Sorry mate, but Nadal is going for La Decima next year. Therefore, he's got as much motivation as ever.

Good to know that Djokovic's chances will massively increase after 2015 if Nadal wins 10th RG and will not have much more motivation left after La Decima:)
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Good to know that Djokovic's chances will massively increase after 2015 if Nadal wins 10th RG and will not have much more motivation left after La Decima:)

Lendl was even more determined to win Wimbledon, you know, to the extent of getting a grass court built at his house and skipping the April-June clay period. He didn't succeed in winning Wimbledon.
 

DerekNoleFam1

Hall of Fame
Main tactic learned from 2014 - don't get sick in the Semi final and Final.
He does not need to do anything special, or any unusual strategy, he has the game to beat him there.
Nadal is also in definite decline and will be 29 at next years RG as well, he simply can't keep winning there indefinitely.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Main tactic learned from 2014 - don't get sick in the Semi final and Final.
He does not need to do anything special, or any unusual strategy, he has the game to beat him there.
Nadal is also in definite decline and will be 29 at next years RG as well, he simply can't keep winning there indefinitely.

A dozen RG titles for Nadal would be nice.
 

Mick

Legend
i don't think Djokovic could do anything differently than what he had done in his last 6 matches against Nadal at the FO.

If both play at their best levels, Nadal would win. If Nadal is off then Djokovic would win.
 

Fritz

Banned
i don't think Djokovic could do anything differently than what he had done in his last 6 matches against Nadal at the FO.

If both play at their best levels, Nadal would win. If Nadal is off then Djokovic would win.

Djokovic at his absolute best still never played Nadal at RG...The closest to his best Novak was in 2011, but Federer played iconic match and stopped Djokovic...
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic fears Nadal too much at RG. We don't want to see another DF on a championship point. Novak tried and failed many times. Let someone else face the Nadal challenge in RG final.

Good day.
 

TopFH

Hall of Fame
Sorry mate, but Nadal is going for La Decima next year. Therefore, he's got as much motivation as ever.

Phrases like this show why European football is the biggest sport. Besides, why are you using Real Madrid's Decima to prop up Nadal? Not trying to be mean, it's just that I've seen a couple of posters use that phrase recently. Also, why now and not when Nadal won RG back in June?
 

Noelan

Legend
He needs it to be a cool day and for it to have rained in the morning.
He had excatly those type of conditions at MC 2013, judging by the look of Novaks face when he came on court,he knew that day he will end Nadals 8 years reign at MC.
The same thing was with 3 set RG 2012, when he won 8 games in a row. That was the reason why Nadal refused to continue the match, once when light rain stopped. Novak was waiting in the locker room to continue the match but, Nadal refused .I was there at that match, even parisian crowd were in disbilief that mach didn't resume.This incident never got media attention when it happened, nor was later.
Yet some forum experts here mention Nishikori who manage to take one set at Madrid 2014- year when he lost to Ferrer, Almagro on clay/fastest clay on tour as example how to win against him at PC:rolleyes:
 
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RanchDressing

Hall of Fame
The Nishikori hype around here is something else. His best results last year were Madrid and US Open and both times it completely decimated his body making it to the end of the tournament. He turns 25 this year he's not some fresh faced youngster straight out of kindergarten. He's not beating Nadal in 5 on clay. Ever.

He said he would beat him next time at madrid.

These threads never amount to anything, because everyone is so absorbed about their guy.
 

Man of steel

Hall of Fame
Djokovic at his absolute best still never played Nadal at RG...The closest to his best Novak was in 2011, but Federer played iconic match and stopped Djokovic...

If djoko at hos best couldn't even beat federer on clay in 2011 what makes you think he would beat nadal in a best of 5 at RG.
Some people need to taste the truth.
 

Fritz

Banned
He had excatly those type of conditions at MC 2013, judging by the look of Novaks face when he came on court,he knew that day he will end Nadals 8 years reign at MC.
The same thing was with 3 set RG 2012, when he won 8 games in a row. That was the reason why Nadal refused to continue the match, once when light rain stopped. Novak was waiting in the locker room to continue the match but, Nadal refused .I was there at that match, even parisian crowd were in disbilief that mach didn't resume.This incident never got media attention when it happened, nor was later.
Yet some forum experts here mention Nishikori who manage to take one set at Madrid 2014- year when he lost to Ferrer, Almagro on clay/fastest clay on tour as example how to win against him at PC:rolleyes:

After that match at the net Nadal's eyes projected pure hate at Djokovic. The guy obviously gives 120% efforts when he's playing vs Djokovic...
 

Noelan

Legend
I saw with my own eyes his helpless face and and his eyes full of tears of anger directed towards his uncle when he lost 3 set at RG2012:oops:
 

RanchDressing

Hall of Fame
If djoko at hos best couldn't even beat federer on clay in 2011 what makes you think he would beat nadal in a best of 5 at RG.
Some people need to taste the truth.

Tennis is a game of individual matchups and tactics.

By the same logic, because Federer beat Soderling at RG he must be capable of beating Nadal. Which, he isn't.

Federer and Djokovic have been quite close this last year, with Fed winning a few and loosing a couple too, yet Federer got trounced by Nadal on a hard court. Djokovic destroyed Nadal on hard, won on clay, and lost in RG. So therefore, Fed should have beaten nadal right?

That logic simply holds no water in tennis, BUT seems to be very common on here, especially in the Pro discussions.

The nadal djokovic federer mix is pretty obvious because of past results, but now add Wawrinka to that discussion and you have more proof that kind of rock paper scissors logic is flawed in tennis.
 
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Noelan

Legend
To be honest , not only against Novak, but his feelings were only reinforced towards Novak because he knows that the only opponent that can threaten him even when he plays his best.
I'm sure that most nadal fans/even his worst trolls feel the same,for the same reason they despise Novak and trying to create ilussion here that hes lesser player than he really is.
Anyway we will see what will happen at RG2015:)
 
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Mustard

Bionic Poster
Phrases like this show why European football is the biggest sport. Besides, why are you using Real Madrid's Decima to prop up Nadal? Not trying to be mean, it's just that I've seen a couple of posters use that phrase recently. Also, why now and not when Nadal won RG back in June?

Because La Decima refers to the 10th. Real Madrid won their 10th European Cup/Champions League in 2014. Rafael Nadal won his 9th French Open in 2014, not his 10th.
 

Anti-Fedal

Professional
- Don't run into the net when hitting an overhead
- Don't play drop shot off balls that could be smashed away like an overhead
- Don't miss simple overheads
 

Fritz

Banned
To be honest , not only against Novak, but his feelings were only reinforced towards Novak because he knows that the only opponent that can threaten him even when he plays his best.
I'm sure that most nadal fans/even his worst trolls feel the same,for the same reason they despise Novak and trying to create ilussion here that hes lesser player than he really is.

Could be the case. That's why I would like to see what kind of results Djokovic could produce at RG if he will play there with the form similar to the one at WTF-14. That 3th set of RG-12(8 games in a row to be more precise) showed how good is Nole when he is able to turn on his god-mode...
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
If djoko at hos best couldn't even beat federer on clay in 2011 what makes you think he would beat nadal in a best of 5 at RG.
Some people need to taste the truth.

I don't know how they don't see the hilarity in the statement. Djokovic was sooooooooooooo good that Federer stopped him. Read that 5 times. :lol:
 

The_Mental_Giant

Hall of Fame
There is none. Novak will never win RG by beating Nadal. He was close in 2013 but made the biggest choke in sports history on the net incident.

Of the history? lmao... not even the biggest choke of the last 4 years...it was kind of a choke, but not more than Rafa losing AO 2012 or Fed losing USO SF2011..

The biggest choke of all time in slams what coria vs gaudio, period.. It was the most horrible choke I've witnessed in big tournaments... in smaller tournaments there have been thousand of chokes who make the djokovic incident look like nothing.
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
OP, interesting post. But I disagree with the premise. I don't think Novak can hang with Nadal in the long rallies on clay to the point where he can beat him over 5 sets like that.

As great of an athlete as Novak is (I think he's a better athlete than Rafa overall) and as many balls as he gets to, he's still not quite as good or attuned to grinding on clay as Rafael. On other surfaces he is about equal or a tad better in this regard, even if the courts are as slow as clay and the rallies very long (Nadal's superior mentally of course still), but on clay the high bounce and Nadal's endless ability to get to balls and move on the surface is always just a tad better. Over 5 sets it's backbreaking and can catch up to Novak eventually, as we saw it did late in the 5th set at RG.

His best bet is to play with controlled agression and dictate. That's the only time anyone has ever beat Nadal at RG. Becker himself spoke about Novak ending points a bit quicker. He is a great athlets and is never going to be a Berdych or Soderling type (and thank God, it makes him a better player/challenge for Nadal overall) so I'm not suggesting first strike tennis under 6 shots per rally as the bulk of the tactic. But something it he realm of 8-15 shot rallies at the most favors Novak a bit more than the endless rallies.

Playing well and with an offensive baseline game, taking the chances when they arise and hitting hard and courageously over 5 sets is the only way to do it. Easier said than done of course. You're not going to beat Nadal at his own game, on other courts yes, in other clay Masters maybe, but no way now how at RG.
 

TopFH

Hall of Fame
Because La Decima refers to the 10th. Real Madrid won their 10th European Cup/Champions League in 2014. Rafael Nadal won his 9th French Open in 2014, not his 10th.

But why call it exactly the same as Real Madrid's quest? In the second part, I meant to say why are you using La Decima way after his 9th title, instead of starting to use it closer to when Madrid won the UCL, which was about one or two weeks before Nadal's last RG win? Sorry for the confusion.

I guess I don't like people associating something so dear and legendary to me to something that is only similar in the number. especially after those cruel 12 years. But, to each their own. 10 RG titles are 10 RG titles.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
The Nishikori hype around here is something else. His best results last year were Madrid and US Open and both times it completely decimated his body making it to the end of the tournament. He turns 25 this year he's not some fresh faced youngster straight out of kindergarten. He's not beating Nadal in 5 on clay. Ever.

This is true for Madrid but not for USO where he got flat outplayed by on fire Cilic but I agree he has major fitness problems which might stop him future too.

About beating Nadal on clay, I believe he has perfect game that can counter high topspin balls and also has enough creative offensive shotmaking skills so that he can hit through Nadal's defense consistently. In short he combines Federer's shot making skills and Djokovic's ability to counter topspin, patience in rallying and that is why he's capable of doing that both couldn't do in 11 attempts. Additionally he has benefit of being younger and more hungrier but his major problem is fitness which he's improving or somehow managing to give best for major tournaments by skipping relatively less important tournaments.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
In 6 matches, Djokovic has taken 4 sets off Nadal at RG. A sure tactic would be for Djoker to bring forward 3 of those 4 sets next time he plays Nadal at RG :):):). That's his only chance of beating Nadal there.

For all we know, Nadal and Djoker may not even meet at RG this year even if Nadal wins La Decima. Vamos Rafa!
 
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