Rise of American Tennis?

Adv. Edberg

Adv. Edberg

Legend
So there are 5 American teens in the MD at Memphis ATP. Which is more than it has been in Memphis since 1989 apparently.

"The five American teenagers in the draw surpassed the previous tournament record of four in 1989. That foursome featured future Grand Slam tournament champions Andre Agassi, Michael Chang, Jim Courier and Pete Sampras."

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/fritz-and-tiafoe-among-five-american-teens-in-memphis

Could USA finally be on its way back on tennis map?
 
Adv. Edberg said:
So there are 5 American teens in the MD at Memphis ATP. Which is more than it has been in Memphis since 1989 apparently.

"The five American teenagers in the draw surpassed the previous tournament record of four in 1989. That foursome featured future Grand Slam tournament champions Andre Agassi, Michael Chang, Jim Courier and Pete Sampras."

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/fritz-and-tiafoe-among-five-american-teens-in-memphis

Could USA finally be on its way back on tennis map?
Click to expand...

Let's hope that is the case for the sake of tennis, but it's way too early to say.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
So there are 5 American teens in the MD at Memphis ATP. Which is more than it has been in Memphis since 1989 apparently.

"The five American teenagers in the draw surpassed the previous tournament record of four in 1989. That foursome featured future Grand Slam tournament champions Andre Agassi, Michael Chang, Jim Courier and Pete Sampras."

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/fritz-and-tiafoe-among-five-american-teens-in-memphis

Could USA finally be on its way back on tennis map?
Click to expand...
The 2nd seed in Memphis is #30 Steve Johnson while in 1989 it was #7 Jimmy Connors

The field is very weak
 
Somewhat confusing that a country with 300 million people can't produce a GS winning player, while Switzerland has two of the top five players in the world.
 
I just checked and Tiafoe is out. Lost a tight 3 setter to Ryan Harrison. Harrison exacted revenge for Winston Salem Last year. I think Fritz and Mmoh are set to play each other tomorrow if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: it is today after 4pm.
 
mikeeeee said:
Somewhat confusing that a country with 300 million people can't produce a GS winning player, while Switzerland has two of the top five players in the world.
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Can't have it good all the time.

In the mean time, remember Serena Williams, still the dominant force in the WTA.
 
mikeeeee said:
Somewhat confusing that a country with 300 million people can't produce a GS winning player, while Switzerland has two of the top five players in the world.
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And Sweden with 8 million people has got 4 slam winners and 25 slam titles and a number of DC titles as well as 7 players in the top 20 at one point.

Those were the good days of socialism, now it's capitalism and we don't even have 1 guy in top 100.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
And Sweden with 8 million people has got 4 slam winners and 25 slam titles and a number of DC titles as well as 7 players in the top 20 at one point.

Those were the good days of socialism, now it's capitalism and we don't even have 1 guy in top 100.
Click to expand...

We in the US used to have a whole bunch of champions, now just Serena, same capitalism all the way.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
And Sweden with 8 million people has got 4 slam winners and 25 slam titles and a number of DC titles as well as 7 players in the top 20 at one point.

Those were the good days of socialism, now it's capitalism and we don't even have 1 guy in top 100.
Click to expand...

I really miss the Swedes, I pretty much liked all of the Swedes that have been around in my tennis watching days (Soderling, Bjorkman, both Johansson's, Enqvist, Norman, etc)
 
mikeeeee said:
Somewhat confusing that a country with 300 million people can't produce a GS winning player, while Switzerland has two of the top five players in the world.
Click to expand...

Mind you, neither China nor India has produced a GS winning player, and they are both several times the size of the USA.
 
So Mmoh, Tiafoe and Donaldson are out. Tommy Paul and Fritz left. Not sure when Paul plays. But Fritz won today's match in straight sets versus Mmoh. Gotta say, not very promising.
 
mavsman149 said:
I'm impressed with Fritz, the rest.....
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I agree. I feel the same way.

I saw Tiafoe play last year at Knoxville challenger. And the year before too. Still some kinks in the FH even though he has worked on it. Was extremely weird early on when he first came on the scene.

TBH Fritz is the one who stands out in the current crop of teenagers. Not expecting much from others.
 
scotus said:
We in the US used to have a whole bunch of champions, now just Serena, same capitalism all the way.
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Nah you ha regulated capitalism up until some time in the 80s. It was almost socialism tbh. Banks didn't control the govt and they couldn't just do whatever they wanted. So it's the same with you :(
 
The future is not as bleak as even two years ago. It's a statement that THF made in total candor during an interview last summer that says it all: he claimed when he first hooked up with the USTA crew that he was far behind every one of his contemporaries; could not even stay with them in normal drills. Now he's way ahead of all of them and probably will keep building on this talent gap. For the past decade our "leaders" have been blind to real talent and trying to dress up mediocrity with their cookie cutter approach.

Since Roddick, it seems the few Americans that get any level of success have gone the college route (Isner, Johnson) or jumped straight to the Tour without USTA ties (Querrey). The reason for so few Americans getting strong through the collegiate route is pretty simple...too many scholarships going to foreign players.

The USTA may have finally gotten lucky with this new generation, especially now that THF has joined the fold.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
Nah you ha regulated capitalism up until some time in the 80s. It was almost socialism tbh. Banks didn't control the govt and they couldn't just do whatever they wanted. So it's the same with you :(
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Feel free to move to another country.

The US will have more champions at some point, regardless of its form of economy.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
So there are 5 American teens in the MD at Memphis ATP. Which is more than it has been in Memphis since 1989 apparently.

"The five American teenagers in the draw surpassed the previous tournament record of four in 1989. That foursome featured future Grand Slam tournament champions Andre Agassi, Michael Chang, Jim Courier and Pete Sampras."

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/fritz-and-tiafoe-among-five-american-teens-in-memphis

Could USA finally be on its way back on tennis map?
Click to expand...
Now that the Balkans have discovered tennis no chance
 
scotus said:
Feel free to move to another country.

The US will have more champions at some point, regardless of its form of economy.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not, but then you have 320 million people...

You need a good economical and political system if you want to win 25 slams with a just 8 million people.
 
scotus said:
China has Li Na.

India has some champions in doubles.

Again, the US still has Serena.
Click to expand...

But Serena was born in 81, before capitalism started to destroy the US. I think it's unlikely you'll see another slam winner. Unless you vote for Sanders that is... A small glimmer of hope he is.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
They've always had good people. I just think they're less lazy than Americans and other western countries.
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All our elite athletes played football or basketball. Tennis has gotten much bigger and kids are really into it. Population wise we are pretty small but sports wise we have done pretty well
 
stringertom said:
The future is not as bleak as even two years ago. It's a statement that THF made in total candor during an interview last summer that says it all: he claimed when he first hooked up with the USTA crew that he was far behind every one of his contemporaries; could not even stay with them in normal drills. Now he's way ahead of all of them and probably will keep building on this talent gap. For the past decade our "leaders" have been blind to real talent and trying to dress up mediocrity with their cookie cutter approach.

Since Roddick, it seems the few Americans that get any level of success have gone the college route (Isner, Johnson) or jumped straight to the Tour without USTA ties (Querrey). The reason for so few Americans getting strong through the collegiate route is pretty simple...too many scholarships going to foreign players.

The USTA may have finally gotten lucky with this new generation, especially now that THF has joined the fold.
Click to expand...

I actually think the foreign Players are good for the college Players. yes, that means less american college Players but the guys who lose their scholarship to international Players are not top100 material anyway. and for the remaining really good american Players the international Players mean better competition and better competition is key to develope.
 
mika1979 said:
All our elite athletes played football or basketball. Tennis has gotten much bigger and kids are really into it. Population wise we are pretty small but sports wise we have done pretty well
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Yeah, I guess thanks to Djoko and Berdych etc. But even Lendl and Korda etc?
 
stringertom said:
900 Kms from Prague to Brlgrade with no shared border to any Balkan state (Hungary in between), the Czech Republic is not Balkan.

As an American, often ridiculed for lack of world geographical knowledge, I cry "Poppycock".
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Well, you're probably an exception perhaps. But to be fair, Europeans don't really throw around the term Balkan all that often.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
Well, you're probably an exception perhaps. But to be fair, Europeans don't really throw around the term Balkan all that often.
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Czechs and their cousin Slovakians have their own rich athletic history going back to their first Wimby/RG champion Drobny in the 50's. This chap was quite the athlete, having won a silver Olympics medal in ice hockey prior to his tennis heroics. That sport is another one that they have been strong at, while their more southern counterparts in the Balkan Peninsula are stronger at basketball.
 
There's no doubt the men's tour has a number of intriguing young US prospects. However, none of them are even a lock for top 10 yet, so let's not get carried away.
 
Well, it's official. The only US teenager left out of 5 is Fritz. Tommy Paul lost too yesterday to Becker in a three setter. First round, first match. Everyone out except for Fritz who played Mmoh.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
But Serena was born in 81, before capitalism started to destroy the US. I think it's unlikely you'll see another slam winner. Unless you vote for Sanders that is... A small glimmer of hope he is.
Click to expand...

Reagan was elected 10 months before Serena was born. But the sort of damage his policies lead to probably takes time to filter through.
 
These kids are American Millennials, hence nothing will come out of it. It was on the radio the other day that Millennials had their moms call their bosses at work to talk about the "issues" of their spoiled yet employed children! Your mom is calling your boss! And these kids are from that era, so I am not expecting much. Look at Zverev and Coric, Alex Zverev is 18 and 70th in the world, Coric is 38th at 19 years old. Both are Slavs, but one plays for Germany where his parents immigrated. These American players got wilds cards!! That is so important. Denis Kudla has been working the circuit for a few year now, 23, and Coric is ranked way better than him, why? Kudla is of Slavic ethnicity too, half of players playing for Western European countries are from Slavic countries originally, yet here in US somehow we had to ruin even the Slavic kid like him that maybe in Europe would've gotten different tennis training, read better tennis training. Even the one they claim has a sob story had his tennis and everything paid for since early age. There is nobody in Europe paying everything for an 11 year old no matter how good he/she is.
 
helterskelter said:
I thought the thread was about men's singles. You're of course right if you include women's events and doubles. But then the USA has the Bryan brothers, too. And Venus.
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The thread could be about men's singles. But when people talk about "American tennis" they tend to forget that American tennis has been doing very well on the women's side and, as you rightly point out, the doubles with the Bryan Brothers.

Mikeeee specifically mentioned the US having 300 million but not having GS champs. Does the US have 300 million men? No. Since the number includes both men and women, my response appropriately pointed out the most dominant force in the women's tennis--namely, Serena.
 
scotus said:
The thread could be about men's singles. But when people talk about "American tennis" they tend to forget that American tennis has been doing very well on the women's side and, as you rightly point out, the doubles with the Bryan Brothers.

Mikeeee specifically mentioned the US having 300 million but not having GS champs. Does the US have 300 million men? No. Since the number includes both men and women, my response appropriately pointed out the most dominant force in the women's tennis--namely, Serena.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Good point. I was reading the thread quickly. But I should have been more careful to specify that I was talking about the men's singles. Even in that event, India has an Olympic bronze medalist (Paes in 1996). In men's and women's doubles, India has had a lot of success. In women's singles, China has done so, too. It's a shame that Mirza never made it in women's singles. She definitely had talent at one point. I remember watching her on a back court of Wimbledon a few years ago and thinking that she could be a steady top 20 player for some time. But if it would distract from her Slam titles in doubles, then I guess it's not worth bothering. I still wish she would have done, though.
 
@scotus

Aah, how time flies. When I said, "a few," it turns out I probably meant "eight and a half." I looked back at Mirza's Wimbledon results, and while I can't remember for sure which match I was talking about, I think that it was her win against Yaroslava Shvedova in the first round of Wimbledon 2007.
 
helterskelter said:
Fair enough. Good point. I was reading the thread quickly. But I should have been more careful to specify that I was talking about the men's singles. Even in that event, India has an Olympic bronze medalist (Paes in 1996). In men's and women's doubles, India has had a lot of success. In women's singles, China has done so, too. It's a shame that Mirza never made it in women's singles. She definitely had talent at one point. I remember watching her on a back court of Wimbledon a few years ago and thinking that she could be a steady top 20 player for some time. But if it would distract from her Slam titles in doubles, then I guess it's not worth bothering. I still wish she would have done, though.
Click to expand...

About 10 years ago, I went to see an exhibition match featuring Sampras and Courier and then stayed to see a woman's match. This Indian girl I had never heard of (Mirza) came out and she was hitting lights-out forehands. She would have made Graf pround (and probably hit harder). I don't know what happened to her singles career, but she's doing extremely well in doubles. A GS winner, right there.
 
scotus said:
About 10 years ago, I went to see an exhibition match featuring Sampras and Courier and then stayed to see a woman's match. This Indian girl I had never heard of (Mirza) came out and she was hitting lights-out forehands. She would have made Graf pround (and probably hit harder). I don't know what happened to her singles career, but she's doing extremely well in doubles. A GS winner, right there.
Click to expand...

Yeah. She now has six Slam titles: three in women's doubles and three in mixed. The three in women's doubles are the most recent three, so she and Hingis are one away from a non-calendar Slam. Her mixed titles are Australian 2009, Roland Garros 2012, and US Open 2014. She's also been runner-up in one major women's doubles event (Roland Garros 2011) and two mixed doubles events (Australian 2008 and 2014). Nine major finals in all, winning six. And she's been in the final of every major, although she has not played the final of Wimbledon in mixed doubles. She's played all four finals in women's doubles and three of the four in mixed.

I only just noticed when I looked it up that after beating her current doubles partner, Hingis, in the quarter-finals of the mixed at the 2016 Australian Open, (which I'd known at the time), she then lost in the next round against a team that included her previous doubles partner, Vesnina (who went on to take the title).
 
helterskelter said:
Yeah. She now has six Slam titles: three in women's doubles and three in mixed. The three in women's doubles are the most recent three, so she and Hingis are one away from a non-calendar Slam. Her mixed titles are Australian 2009, Roland Garros 2012, and US Open 2014. She's also been runner-up in one major women's doubles event (Roland Garros 2011) and two mixed doubles events (Australian 2008 and 2014). Nine major finals in all, winning six. And she's been in the final of every major, although she has not played the final of Wimbledon in mixed doubles. She's played all four finals in women's doubles and three of the four in mixed.

I only just noticed when I looked it up that after beating her current doubles partner, Hingis, in the quarter-finals of the mixed at the 2016 Australian Open, (which I'd known at the time), she then lost in the next round against a team that included her previous doubles partner, Vesnina (who went on to take the title).
Click to expand...

Mirza and Hingis play incredibly well together and seem to enjoy each other's company. I hope that duo sticks together for many years and rack up many more trophies.
 
McEnroe has written about why US men's tennis hasn't been competitive. He says the ranking system here in the US encourages the young players to avoid playing each other as often as they should. So they aren't tough enough to win the big matches.

Bringing politics into this (blaming Reagan and capitalism!!) is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
 
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