Rod Laver has the right to the all time crown

[hoodjem]

^^Laver would most likely use a hybrid (gut in mains, poly in crosses).

I bet you're right. (I was thinking the other way around with gut in the crosses, but more feel with gut in the mains.) Makes sense.

 

[Limpinhitter]

1. None of the players you menitoned, even though they ar 6 feet or taller, generated the same amount of speed on their swings that players do today.

2. Laver's service motion would have to be changed to generate the same swing that players do today. Remember, his feet never left the ground during his playing days. Although this was first a rule (that feet couldn't leave the ground), it was later changed, and Laver didn't bother changing.

Drakuchop the troll has nothing of value to add to the discourse!

 

[Limpinhitter]

Because Agassi hit way harder than Laver ever did.

And Drakuchop the troll knows EXACTLY how hard Laver hit to within 1/10 of a mph that because he was there with his trusty radar gun! Not only that, Drakuchop has seen video of Laver play on YouTube.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Natural Gut strings are way more powerful than poly strings.

As Drakuchop has long maintained, wood racquets with natural gut string are much more powerful than modern racquets with poly hybrid string. Why, you have to be 6'6", 250lbs and an Olympic class hammer thrower to have any chance of hitting a ball over the net with today's clubs. In fact, as Drakuchop has said, Rod Laver was so small he probably couldn't even lift a modern racquet.

 

[powerslave]

While I do not know what advantage height have when it comes to 'power' but difference in effectiveness of the serve is something which is evident. The argument that Rios or Chang could hit 130mph serves is lame , good serve is about putting the ball in play at speed consistently how consistently did Rios/Chang hit 130mph serves that were in play ?

 

[kiki]

I think Emerson would have won some. When he was past his best at the age of 31 he beat a peak Laver 4 times in 1968 - every one of those matches in straight sets. That tells me at his peak he would have been extremely competitive with the pros.

Think so, too.He may not have 12, but 6 to 8 probably yes.He was not just physically fit but a menthal rock out there.However, he lacked a single big weapon; he was good at any stroke but, IMO, not the best in any.Probably, in conditioning, however, would be top 2-3

 

[kiki]

I was being nice to say Laver can compete today(but not reach top tier). However, Limpinhitter and kiki can’t even see how generous I was, except making kiddy jokes.

Oh man¡¡¡ I simply feel in debt with you for the rest of my life

 

[Limpinhitter]

While I do not know what advantage height have when it comes to 'power' but difference in effectiveness of the serve is something which is evident. The argument that Rios or Chang could hit 130mph serves is lame , good serve is about putting the ball in play at speed consistently how consistently did Rios/Chang hit 130mph serves that were in play ?

The advantage that height gives a server is margin for error. I'm confident that Laver could hit a serve well over 130 with a modern racquet. I'm not so sure about Chang or Rios. But, I would think that Laver probably wouldn't hit that hard on a regular basis because it would be a lower percentage play for him.

 

[timnz]

Height

While I do not know what advantage height have when it comes to 'power' but difference in effectiveness of the serve is something which is evident. The argument that Rios or Chang could hit 130mph serves is lame , good serve is about putting the ball in play at speed consistently how consistently did Rios/Chang hit 130mph serves that were in play ?

My point was that to discount Laver on height alone was an invalid argument. More recent players in his height range have done fine.

 

[CyBorg]

I see that there are still people here not sick of this boring debate.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I see that there are still people here not sick of this boring debate.

Here ya go: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=355412

 

[kiki]

Emmo is widely overlooked and underappreciated on TT.

He beat many times the Frasers,Lavers,Newcombes and certainly Rosewall,Hoad,Roche,Ashe,Santana,Stolle and the best players of that generation.I think many would like to demerit his success because he skipped the pros during many years and they think he was somewhat dishonest or coward.I do not think so, I think main reason was his Davis Cup engagement.

 

[kiki]

The draw of the WCT tournament I first saw Laver play in included some serious talent like Bob Lutz, Stan Smith, Emmo, Mal Anderson, Dick Stockton, Marty Reissen, John Alexander, Harold Solomon, Cliff Richey, Niki Pilic, Phil Dent, Adrianno Panatta, Jaime Fillol (and his wild eyed doubles partner Patricio Cornejo), Eddie Dibbs, Brian Gottfried, among others. Who was the guy who played two handed on both sides. He teamed up with Bob Hewitt in doubles. Some of the results I recall were that Lutz beat Richey in 3, and lost to Laver in 3. Alexander (monster server), beat Smith, then lost to Stockton. Laver beat Stockton in a 3 of 5 set final 6-4, 6-3, 6-2.

Anyway, Bob Lutz was about 6' tall, 185lbs, and was the most heavily muscled pro tennis player I've ever seen, even moreso than Tony Roche who was a bull himself. Incredible strength, quickness and conditioning. He always seemed so relaxed and played with a grin on his face. He had the size and strength to have excelled at any sport. To my recollection, he used the aluminum Head racquet with a blue plastic throat, at that time. I can't recall the name of it. Head later put a red plastic throat in it. Of course, being a young teen, I had to have one. Hated it. Went back to the Fort, 4 1/2 light (about 12 ounces), with Victor Imperial gut. THAT was the ticket back in the day. For some reason, it seemed that a lot of Jr's. in my area back then loved the Davis Classic but it was too whippy for me.

Lutz was the soul on the excellent Smith-Lutz partnership.Watch 1981 Wimbledon Final and 1980 USO Final vs Mac and Fleming.Lutz is just amazing , and compares to Mac.While Smith and Flming are the put away players using their height and power.

It is curious that Lutz did not have success with any other than Smith.May be he did not look for another doubles partner.

Another sensational guy was Marty Riessen.He won a lot with different partners (Ashe,Okker,Stewart), when doubles specialist wer widely followed world wide.Today, unfortunatley, they are unknown.

 

[kiki]

I have read about Stan, folks talked tons about his serve, and a lot about his volley. I was very surprised at his court and tactical skills. I think I have an Ashe -Smith match and he was the craftier of the two.

Upload it .I think the only big title they fought over was WCT Dallas 1973.Is it?.The 2 good american nice guys.10 years later it was another story with the firecracking rivalyr between Connors and Mc Enroe.

 

[kiki]

I saw Smith play a few matches at the 1974 US Open and I always enjoyed watching him whether it was on television or in person.

He had a great overhead plus the best backhand overhead I've ever seen. Laver hated that shot.

It's too bad we don't have many matches from the WCT tour in 1973 with Smith. He was in the zone during that time. At that point he was considered the best player in the world and the heir to Laver.

The first mbig Wimbly final I can recall of, is the 72 final vs Nastase, a total contrast of styles and personalities.Like Borg and Mac 10 years later.Smith was not as good as Ilie but was thougher at his mind and deserved to win.

Nasty and Rosewall are probably the 2 guys that deserved to win Wimbledon and never could.Nastase lost 2 finals, ken lost 4.

 

[kiki]

I love Ashe's perspective PC1. He had a very high Tennis I.Q. and was so well spoken. Those excerpts describe Hewitt and McMillan perfectly. I only saw them play in the late 1970's, but they did reach #1.

Either me, saw them late 70´s, well behind their peak.I still remember Hewitt playing along young Heinz Gutnhardt, a very talented swiss player who paired with Bob for a few tournaments.Looked like the old teacher teaching the young talent.

2 years later, along with Balasz Tarocy, Gunthardt was a top of doubles play, winning the 1981 FO and the 1982 Masters...¿Was it a fluke ?.

 

[hoodjem]

As Drakuchop has long maintained, wood racquets with natural gut string are much more powerful than modern racquets with poly hybrid string. Why, you have to be 6'6", 250lbs and an Olympic class hammer thrower to have any chance of hitting a ball over the net with today's clubs. In fact, as Drakuchop has said, Rod Laver was so small he probably couldn't even lift a modern racquet.

LH,

Time to move on.

 

[Chopin]

I see that there are still people here not sick of this boring debate.

CyBorg, my boy! Great to have you back on the Boards.