Roddick or Tsonga, who had the higher skill cap?

[InsideOut900]

Both players capable of bringing a lot of heat in their games.

I always found their playstyles very similar in terms of strengths and weaknesses with big serve + big FH favoured game, but with average BH, movement and return of serve.

Tsonga's biggest issues has always been his ability to maintain form round by round, while Roddick could string together great tournaments, which made him a more accomplished player career-wise. However, both were capable of playing a mean big hitting game on their day.

Tsonga better at AO and much better at RG at his best, Roddick a bit better in Wimbledon and much better at the USO.

So my questions would be:

1) Who had the better achievable skill cap based on their game components: serve, FH, BH, RoS, speed, footwork, net-game, slice, overhead, dropshots etc.
2) What are the most glaring differences in their games in spite of how similar their strengths look?

 

[NeutralFan]

Small correction - Tsonga BH was much better than Roddick's Bh

Tsonga was a better mover and had better footwork. There was not any big hole in his game.

 

[Mike Sams]

Tsonga beat Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic in majors. Pretty cool!

 

[Krish0608]

Have to give it to Tsonga

 

[JaxTeller]

Tsonga, Roddick pretty much inferior in almost every department except serve

 

[abmk]

biggest difference would be tough volleys/drop volleys.

 

[Oceans II]

The Tsonga's, Berydch's, Del Potro's, Cilic's of the world all have higher skill caps. Also the Thiem's, Zverev's, Tsitisipas', etc.

 

[Sport]

The Tsonga's, Berydch's, Del Potro's, Cilic's of the world all have higher skill caps. Also the Thiem's, Zverev's, Tsitisipas', etc.

I agree all those you mentioned display a higher ceiling than Roddick, except Cilic due to his relatively poor mobility and Zverev due to his gigantic mental weakness, plus 0-11 against the top-10 in Slams.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Both players capable of bringing a lot of heat in their games.

I always found their playstyles very similar in terms of strengths and weaknesses with big serve + big FH favoured game, but with average BH, movement and return of serve.

Tsonga's biggest issues has always been his ability to maintain form round by round, while Roddick could string together great tournaments, which made him a more acomplished player career-wise. However, both were capable of playing a mean big hitting game on their day.

Tsonga better at AO and much better at RG at his best, Roddick a bit better in Wimbledon and much better at the USO.

So my questions would be:

1) Who had the better achievable skill cap based on their game components: serve, FH, BH, RoS, speed, footwork, net-game, slice, overhead, dropshots etc.
2) What are the most glaring differences in their games in spite of how similar their strengths look?

Tsonga ofcourse. But consistency was his problem, and also the showbotting approach at times.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

I agree all those you mentioned display a higher ceiling than Roddick, except Cilic due to his relatively poor mobility and Zverev due to his gigantic mental weakness, plus 0-11 against the top-10 in Slams.

Sir, He'll put himself in there maybe.
Given that the likes of Rublev, Norrie & Ruud are top10 players, Zverev would like his chances against any of them in a potential slam encounter.

 

[abmk]

The Tsonga's, Berydch's, Del Potro's, Cilic's of the world all have higher skill caps. Also the Thiem's, Zverev's, Tsitisipas', etc.

Good joke.
A better one: Robredo is equal to Djokovic in skill level.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Tsonga on a single day, honestly. Roddick over a tournament though. Tsonga at his best would peak in one match but then have a relatively mundane day in the next one. Roddick could maintain peak form over entire tournaments. But yes, if it's a single peak-to-peak matchup I take Tsonga overall.

 

[onefineday]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the one who won a slam and reached No.1.
I don't buy the 'he played in the big 3 era' stuff. But the kool aid gets slurped eagerly here.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Roddick would never dream of beating peakdal at a major

 

[NeutralFan]

Roddick would never dream of beating peakdal at a major

2008 AO Nadal was hardly a peak dal on HC but yeah Tsonga had better bh and movement something Roddick didn't have to hurt Nadal. Nadal has exploited players with average or poor bh and average movement more than any one else.

 

[buscemi]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the one who won a slam and reached No.1.
I don't buy the 'he played in the big 3 era' stuff. But the kool aid gets slurped eagerly here.

Reaching #1 goes to sustained excellence vs. higher skill cap. In terms of winning a Major, let's compare Roddick at the 2003 U.S. Open vs. Tsonga at the 2008 Australian Open:

Roddick
1R: beats Henman in straight sets
2R: beats Ljubicic in 4 sets
3R: beats Saretta in straight sets
4R: beats Malisse in straight sets
QF: beats Schalken in straight sets
SF: beats Nalbandian in 5 sets (down match point in the 3rd set)
F: beats Ferrero in straight sets

Tsonga
1R: beats Murray in 4 sets
2R: beats Warburg in straight sets
3R: beats GGL in straight sets
4R: beats Gasquet in 4 sets
QF: beats Youzhny in straight sets
SF: beats Nadal 6-2, 6-2, 6-2
F: loses to Djokovic in 4 sets

It's pretty close. Of course, interestingly enough both Tsonga and Roddick would go on to beat Djokovic at the Australian Open.

 

[onefineday]

I d

Reaching #1 goes to sustained excellence vs. higher skill cap. In terms of winning a Major, let's compare Roddick at the 2003 U.S. Open vs. Tsonga at the 2008 Australian Open:

Roddick
1R: beats Henman in straight sets
2R: beats Ljubicic in 4 sets
3R: beats Saretta in straight sets
4R: beats Malisse in straight sets
QF: beats Schalken in straight sets
SF: beats Nalbandian in 5 sets (down match point in the 3rd set)
F: beats Ferrero in straight sets

Tsonga
1R: beats Murray in 4 sets
2R: beats Warburg in straight sets
3R: beats GGL in straight sets
4R: beats Gasquet in 4 sets
QF: beats Youzhny in straight sets
SF: beats Nadal 6-2, 6-2, 6-2
F: loses to Djokovic in 4 sets

It's pretty close. Of course, interestingly enough both Tsonga and Roddick would go on to beat Djokovic at the Australian Open.

I didn't read the OP, just the title. Just wanted to vomit my opinion like an old furball stuck in the throat.
I liked your stats though. What does it mean? I'll have a think while I lay in the window and get some sun.

 

[Sabrina]

Tsonga at his peak, Roddick is more consistent though.

 

[Kralingen]

Tsonga for me and not really arguably either. His French Open matches break any tie.

 

[InsideOut900]

Tsonga for me and not really arguably either. His French Open matches break any tie.

The USO could do some equalization and say Roddick on fast courts and Tsonga on slow courts.
Granted Roddick was far more useless on clay than Tsonga at USO, even more so compared to Tsonga on fast HC in general.

Anyone down for a shot-by-shot breakdown?

 

[MeatTornado]

Depends on how exactly we define the question.

Tsonga certainly has the greater variety of skill both in shot-making and surface diversity. Roddick definitely had a higher cap on his serve and I would say forehand too, which is arguably enough to give him the higher potential as a player overall since those 2 shots are so important.

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

I'm gonna go with the one who reached a #1 ranking and was held back only by a peak GOAT.

 

[Deleted member 780630]

All parts of their games taken together across all surfaces, Tsonga had the higher ceiling. More well-rounded overall while not lagging far behind Roddick's serve + FH. But it's obviously rarer to see all those parts click simultaneously and to sustain it over a long period. Roddick had a more reliable floor level.

 

[Kralingen]

The USO could do some equalization and say Roddick on fast courts and Tsonga on slow courts.
Granted Roddick was far more useless on clay than Tsonga at USO, even more so compared to Tsonga on fast HC in general.

Anyone down for a shot-by-shot breakdown?

1st&2nd serve - Roddick 9.9, Tsonga 8.75
FH - ‘03/04 Roddick 9, Tsonga 8.5
Volleying - Tsonga 9.5, Roddick 7.5
BH - Roddick by a little? Tsonga could really thump his BH though in his best wins. Not sure on a number
Return - Roddick 7.5, Tsonga 7
Forward movement/net - Tsonga 9, Roddick 8
Baseline movement - Roddick 8, Tsonga 7.5
Slice/touch/approach shots - Tsonga 8.5, Roddick 7

Of course peak Tsonga appeared for a match or two, Roddick was able to bring it across many more matches than Tsonga did.

 

[NatF]

The USO could do some equalization and say Roddick on fast courts and Tsonga on slow courts.
Granted Roddick was far more useless on clay than Tsonga at USO, even more so compared to Tsonga on fast HC in general.

Anyone down for a shot-by-shot breakdown?

Think in terms of shots Roddick edges Tsonga for the most part. But Tsonga has a big edge on feel and net skills, transition game etc...so might be the more balanced.

 

[King No1e]

Good joke.
A better one: Robredo is equal to Djokovic in skill level.

That post would've been complete with some Greek names

 

[ForehandRF]

The Tsonga's, Berydch's, Del Potro's, Cilic's of the world all have higher skill caps. Also the Thiem's, Zverev's, Tsitisipas', etc.

Not on grass

 

[Kralingen]

Big 3, ‘16 Murray, ‘09 DelPo, Wawrinka, Soderling, and possibly a peaking Zverev/Thiem/Gulbis/Monfils are the only players in recent memory capable of producing the Set2-4 level Tsonga displayed here

 

[BlueB]

1st&2nd serve - Roddick 9.9, Tsonga 8.75
FH - ‘03/04 Roddick 9, Tsonga 8.5
Volleying - Tsonga 9.5, Roddick 7.5
BH - Roddick by a little? Tsonga could really thump his BH though in his best wins. Not sure on a number
Return - Roddick 7.5, Tsonga 7
Forward movement/net - Tsonga 9, Roddick 8
Baseline movement - Roddick 8, Tsonga 7.5
Slice/touch/approach shots - Tsonga 8.5, Roddick 7

Of course peak Tsonga appeared for a match or two, Roddick was able to bring it across many more matches than Tsonga did.

Tsonga had much better BH. Not only 2H, but also could hit a good 1H TS. Very few players could and would in a match.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

Wow these threads seem so much quieter

I would vote equal.

 

[NatF]

Tsonga had much better BH. Not only 2H, but also could hit a good 1H TS. Very few players could and would in a match.

Tsonga had the better slice but don't think 2H was better at all. Neither shot was good but imo Roddick had a bit more offence off that wing with several runs where he hit it well dtl etc...

 

[helterskelter]

Small correction - Tsonga BH was much better than Roddick's Bh

Tsonga was a better mover and had better footwork. There was not any big hole in his game.

Tsonga’s hole is probably return of serve.

 

[NatF]

Tsonga’s hole is probably return of serve.

If movement and backhand were holes for Roddick they're slightly bigger holes for Tsonga. But he had a much better transition game and net game.

 

[Phoenix*]

Tsonga bcs he owned Federer at Wimbledon and Nadal at AO.

 

[Third Serve]

I think Tsonga had the higher skill cap but obviously Roddick turned out to be the better player and not by an insignificant margin.

 

[NeutralFan]

If movement and backhand were holes for Roddick they're slightly bigger holes for Tsonga. But he had a much better transition game and net game.

This post should be sattire of the year but not surprising to me.

 

[duaneeo]

Tsonga better at AO and much better at RG at his best, Roddick a bit better in Wimbledon and much better at the USO.

Roddick was better at the AO, and was much better at both Wimbledon and the US Open.

 

[Third Serve]

Roddick was better at the AO, and was much better at both Wimbledon and the US Open.

Peak level here. I don’t think Roddick has anything at the AO that can top Tsonga’s match vs. Nadal in 2008.

 

[NatF]

Peak level here. I don’t think Roddick has anything at the AO that can top Tsonga’s match vs. Nadal in 2008.

Tsonga with the one match peak at the AO, across careers Roddick had probably the better quality of play on average.

 

[Third Serve]

Tsonga with the one match peak at the AO, across careers Roddick had probably the better quality of play on average.

But that’s not really peak level which is what I think the OP was referring to.

 

[NatF]

But that’s not really peak level which is what I think the OP was referring to.

Just going by what that poster was probably referring to, I'm aware of the OP.

 

[sliceroni]

Bravo. Much better comparison than Safin/Krygios and Thiem/Wawrinka trash comparisons. This is a closer one. Roddick with the more successful career, 1 slam and multiple slam finals. Tsonga imo slightly higher skill cap (peak level) with his wins over the Big3 at slams esp coming 2 sets to none down against Federer at Wimbledon. They haven’t play against each other much h2h edge goes to Roddick 2-1 both of his wins at the AO and RG.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

Peak level here. I don’t think Roddick has anything at the AO that can top Tsonga’s match vs. Nadal in 2008.

Stop goading RS to ask out of 10

 

[Roddickulous1]

Roddick wasn't really consistent either in terms of reaching his true peak level even if his results were more consistent.

 

[InsideOut900]

Roddick wasn't really consistent either in terms of reaching his true peak level even if his results were more consistent.

He has those 3 Slam finals at USO 03, Wimb 04/09 as "true" peak performances.
I don't think anyone can argue Roddick had more game than what he presented there.

And I think it's very close with Tsonga's performances at AO 08 and Wimbledon 11 QF. A bit better than 2012/2013 RG Tsonga as well.

 

[duaneeo]

Peak level here. I don’t think Roddick has anything at the AO that can top Tsonga’s match vs. Nadal in 2008.

2008 AO vs Nadal is peak Tsonga? That said, I've seen performances by Roddick at the AO that would beat that Tsonga. And, it was 2009 Roddick who took out the player who took out 2008 AO Tsonga.

 

[helterskelter]

If movement and backhand were holes for Roddick they're slightly bigger holes for Tsonga. But he had a much better transition game and net game.

I take your point about backhand, but I'm not sure about movement. What makes Roddick better in that regard?

 

[NatF]

I take your point about backhand, but I'm not sure about movement. What makes Roddick better in that regard?

Think he was slightly quicker laterally and better defending. Tsonga better moving forward tbh.

 

[metsman]

1st&2nd serve - Roddick 9.9, Tsonga 8.75
FH - ‘03/04 Roddick 9, Tsonga 8.5
Volleying - Tsonga 9.5, Roddick 7.5
BH - Roddick by a little? Tsonga could really thump his BH though in his best wins. Not sure on a number
Return - Roddick 7.5, Tsonga 7
Forward movement/net - Tsonga 9, Roddick 8
Baseline movement - Roddick 8, Tsonga 7.5
Slice/touch/approach shots - Tsonga 8.5, Roddick 7

Of course peak Tsonga appeared for a match or two, Roddick was able to bring it across many more matches than Tsonga did.

So Roddick is better at pretty much everything relevant, as both are primarily serve/FH dominant baseliners but yet Tsonga is inarguably the more skilled player?

 

[PerilousPear]

2008 AO vs Nadal is peak Tsonga? That said, I've seen performances by Roddick at the AO that would beat that Tsonga. And, it was 2009 Roddick who took out the player who took out 2008 AO Tsonga.

That doesn't mean anything lol. Djokovic in 2008 played miles better than in 2009. That's like saying 2021 Djokovic took out 2020 Nadal at RG.