Roddick or Tsonga, who had the higher skill cap?

Who had the higher skill cap across the board?


  • Total voters
    92

abmk

Bionic Poster
Not on hard though. At the AO 2004 don't even recall whej did he lose, and at the USO 2003 he lost to Nalbandian, an inferior tennis ñlayer than 2011 Djokovic. 2011 Federer was winning 3 Slams against such field (both Slams on hard, and Wimbledon against his pigeon Roddick, who never beat him in a Slam final or semifinal).

2003 was for Wimbledon. (roddick) that fed would've beaten Tsonga of Wim 11 for sure.
Also read the years: 2003, 04, 05,09. The 4 years where Roddick faced off vs fed at Wimbledon.
fed of all those years would've beaten Tsonga of Wim 11 (though it'd be close vs fed of Wim 09)

fed lost in 03 AO to Nalby in 5 sets.
You are correct that fed on HC in 2011 > fed on HC in 2003 (save for the YEC). But its not relevant to the point made by @mike danny
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
Roddick had arguably the best serve in the game for his entire career. A serve like that is almost more valuable than every other skill combined.
If that's true, how come only one slam?

How many slams or even high level titles does Isner and Karlovic have?
It’s 1 slam more than Tsonga and all his skills

Roddick also had an excellent forehand at his best, which is more than Isner and Karlovic
I'm not espousing the greatness of Tsonga and his skills, but there was a lot of potential there that wasn't realized for various reasons, but mostly because it wasn't all there consistently. Thus, no slam.

Roddick's forehand changed over the years. Early on it had a lot of pop but more error prone. Later on it was more consistent, but not a huge weapon. Eh, your choice. Is it better than the other servers I mentioned? Sure, I guess.
 

droliver

Professional
For this comparison, I think you have to acknowledge that Roddick's serve is a much bigger differentiator then entire difference of the rest of their games. It was that good. His forehand was also probably considered the biggest weapon on tour for several seasons before Federer.

Serve + Forehand advantage makes Roddick the better overall player and you saw this in the difference in their results. Tsonga looks like he should be better in an abstract as he's such a smooth athlete, but the sum of his game was usually less then it's parts.
 

PMChambers

Hall of Fame
Roddick had a better two shot combo, by a long shot. Serve + FH

Tsonga was better everywhere else.

Roddick volley was glass and his BH could be completely flakey. But that serve and forehand are elite.

I would compare styles of these two.
 

skaj

Legend
Roddick had arguably the best serve in the game for his entire career. A serve like that is almost more valuable than every other skill combined.

Not if the other player also has a very good serve, plus some other better shots, abilities.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
It’s not just “beating Nadal” that proves Tsonga’s greatness. If we rely on name alone, that hurts our tennis analysis a lot.

No, it’s how Tsonga beat him. He was hitting crazy winner after winner and was basically flawless at the net. You don’t see those types of inspired performances very often.
One of Tsonga's two best matches in his career, along his epic five-set victory against Federer in the 2011 Wimbledon quarterfinals coming from two sets down.
:cool:
 

swish41

Rookie
I'm a bit surprised people have chosen Tsonga over Roddick. Tsonga showed elite level tennis rarely and inconsistently but Roddick was always there between 2002 - 2009. His forehand (before he ruined after his shoulder injury) was a real deal especially when he combined with good footwork. Maybe I'm glorifying Roddick too much but I don't remember Tsonga besides his 4 or 5 monsterous performance
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I would say at their respective peaks Tsonga had the better achievable skill cap in terms of how effectively he could maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses, because on his day his level could beat almost anyone, even on their strongest surface. Federer on grass, Djokovic on hardcourt. Maybe not Nadal on clay but pretty much anything else you could throw at him.

Roddick had the better consistently achievable skill cap. Roddick had much better shot tolerance for the majority of his career and also a better returner, particularly on the backhand side.

The biggest difference for me in their games is how similar they were as younger players, but how much their styles bifurcated as they decided to tailor their games very differently over their careers, and how that worked out for them longterm as the game changed.

Tsonga decided to weaponise his Strengths, getting bigger, stronger and more aggressive. His weakness were glaring (backhand, backhand return) and arguably got worse. His peak level remained absurdly high but he drifted in and out of the tour for years at a time.

Roddick played it safe, and obviously saw the writing on the wall with the incoming slowcourt era. He essentially did the opposite of Tsonga, and became an Uber-steady grinder with a huge serve. Roddick hedging his bets effectively ended his ability to peak anywhere near what Tsonga was capable of, but his long term consistency was incredible.

I admire both players for the paths they took. I think in Roddick’s case he made the right move, and I think Tsonga’s approach was right for him too. JWT is a huge man, a career grinding it out in the vein of Roddick would have been too hard on his body. Staying streaky and ultra aggressive made him a fan favorite anywhere he went and gave him victories that he wouldn’t have got elsewhere if he was forced to defend and work points from his backhand side more.
 

objection_

Semi-Pro
I would say at their respective peaks Tsonga had the better achievable skill cap in terms of how effectively he could maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses, because on his day his level could beat almost anyone, even on their strongest surface. Federer on grass, Djokovic on hardcourt. Maybe not Nadal on clay but pretty much anything else you could throw at him.

Roddick had the better consistently achievable skill cap. Roddick had much better shot tolerance for the majority of his career and also a better returner, particularly on the backhand side.

The biggest difference for me in their games is how similar they were as younger players, but how much their styles bifurcated as they decided to tailor their games very differently over their careers, and how that worked out for them longterm as the game changed.

Tsonga decided to weaponise his Strengths, getting bigger, stronger and more aggressive. His weakness were glaring (backhand, backhand return) and arguably got worse. His peak level remained absurdly high but he drifted in and out of the tour for years at a time.

Roddick played it safe, and obviously saw the writing on the wall with the incoming slowcourt era. He essentially did the opposite of Tsonga, and became an Uber-steady grinder with a huge serve. Roddick hedging his bets effectively ended his ability to peak anywhere near what Tsonga was capable of, but his long term consistency was incredible.

I admire both players for the paths they took. I think in Roddick’s case he made the right move, and I think Tsonga’s approach was right for him too. JWT is a huge man, a career grinding it out in the vein of Roddick would have been too hard on his body. Staying streaky and ultra aggressive made him a fan favorite anywhere he went and gave him victories that he wouldn’t have got elsewhere if he was forced to defend and work points from his backhand side more.
Reading this post just makes me think of what Monfils could have been... all that physical talent and yet playing such a passive game 95% of the time
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Who played at a higher level?

1. Tsonga AO 08 or Roddick Wim 09
2. Murray Wim 09 or Agassi USO 05
3. Hewitt AO 05 or Roddick Wim 09
4. Tsonga AO 08 or Federer Wim 17
 

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
2008 AO vs Nadal is peak Tsonga? That said, I've seen performances by Roddick at the AO that would beat that Tsonga. And, it was 2009 Roddick who took out the player who took out 2008 AO Tsonga.
If you watched you might have realized it was scorching hot on the court and Djokovic suffered from a heat stroke and had to retire. Next day they finally played matches under the roof due to it being unsafe.
 

duaneeo

Legend
If you watched you might have realized it was scorching hot on the court and Djokovic suffered from a heat stroke and had to retire. Next day they finally played matches under the roof due to it being unsafe.

IMO, this isn't a topic worthy of being dragged on for several years.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
ITT thread bunch of zoomers who couldn't recognize peak Roddick if he served them in the face at 152 mph
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Tsonga Wim 11 vs Roddick Wim 03? Who wins
Tsonga by virtue of being 8 years of tennis getting better later.

But jfc the whole 'beating peak xyz' is so ********, like let's find all the n=1 data points and treat those like gospel.
 
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