Roddick vs. Gonzalez round robin match

[anointedone]

This match pretty much highlights how poorly Federer is playing these days to lose to Gonzalez. Gonzalez is not that strong, losing his serve so often to even Andy Roddick and losing that easily pretty much proves that. Federer losing to Gonzalez just shows how weak he has gotten.

It is Federer fans in denial. They dont want to accept how much Roger is slipping so they overcredit and buff up opponents to ridiculous degrees. I saw the Federer-Gonzalez match and Roger was terrible, yes Gonzalez played great for him, it is only natural a guy in his late 20s would have to play amazing to beat a guy who has thoroughly dominated him over 10 matches in their careers even on a really bad day. Roger has played alot of bad tennis these days but his fans dont want to accept he is on a decline so they deny it and make all his opponents out to be amazing.

Gonzalez today was shown to not be so amazing. Even Andy Roddick with the kind of groundstrokes and returns he has could break Gonzalez so much and beat him so easily pretty much says all you need to know.

 

[Thor]

Looks like Roddick got himself a backhand!
And His Returns are so solid!
I think we now know where he was the last 2 masters events - PRACTISING!

 

[scotus]

Gonzo must have an ear infection or a hangover. No balance, no court sense.

 

[Rhino]

It is Federer fans in denial. They dont want to accept how much Roger is slipping so they overcredit and buff up opponents to ridiculous degrees. .....Gonzalez today was shown to not be so amazing. Even Andy Roddick with the kind of groundstrokes and returns he has could break Gonzalez so much and beat him so easily pretty much says all you need to know.

One of the great things about tennis is that it is about match-ups on any given day.
Roddick beat Gonzo in straights, yet Davy took a set off Roddick.
Gonzo beat Federer in three, yet Federer took a set off Davy.

If you really did watch both matches you'll have noticed that Gonzo was a different man against Roddick, his balance was all over the place.

I still think Federer will win tomorrow, but this is Roddicks best chance in a while, partly because he is already through so a lot of the pressure will be off him.

 

[anointedone]

I agree Gonzalez played much better vs Federer then against Roddick, but Roddick also played much superior tennis vs Gonzalez then Federer did. Actually Roddick made it harder for Gonzalez to play as well since he wasnt making the easy unforced errors, displaying the sloppy footwork, and putting up those creampuff 2nd serves and midcourt shots begging to be hit that Federer was doing. Also while on a break point Roger would either play a tenative point, or hit an easy shot in the net, Roddick would instead play a strong point. The way Roger has played the last few months he honestly looks like one of the worst players in the top 10 at the moment. Speaking of playing worse, Davydenko played much worse against Federer then he did vs Roddick, Roddick also played better tennis vs Davydenko then Federer did.

I agree it is Roddick's best chance in awhile, and the biggest reason is nothing other then due to Federer's declining game.

 

[Moose Malloy]

I still think Federer will win tomorrow, but this is Roddicks best chance in a while, partly because he is already through so a lot of the pressure will be off him.

Well, that's precisely why he won't win, what is the motivation for Roddick to win? it is a meaningless match, his mind is already on the semis, while this is a must-win for Fed, so I think its actually his worst chance in a while. Getting a win over Federer doesn't rank higher than getting a chance to make a Masters Cup final.

So many times in past masters cups, I've seen players who were 2-0, already assured of the semis, basically tank or go through the motions in their 3rd RR match(Sampras & Becker among others) I recall Fed one year look like he was practicing in his 3rd RR with Moya(which he did win in 3 sets, but obviously he wasn't going 100%)

I hope Roddick's not dumb enough to try too hard in this one, he has a real match to play on Saturday. This is an inherent flaw in the RR format.

 

[Rhino]

what is the motivation for Roddick to win?

^^^ I was thinking that it would be extremely satisfying for Roddick to cause Federers exit (after all the exits that Federer has caused him), and also it will mean that he won't have to face him again in the final, should things pan out that way. Also there would be psychological advantages to take into 2008.

But if he doesn't pull it off he can still go, "who cares, I'm through".
It's a win-win situation for Roddick, and since he's done very badly in exit-or-advance encounters with Federer, he might feel a bit of freedom which sometimes can empower players.

 

[simi]

Well, that's precisely why he won't win, what is the motivation for Roddick to win? it is a meaningless match, his mind is already on the semis, while this is a must-win for Fed...

For once, I don't think I agree with you totally. I would think that knowing who Andy would play on Saturday, (which will have been decided by the time of his match with Roger), will affect his incentive level. He will play to the level needed to allow him to meet either of the two semi-finalist in the other group that he feels he has the best chance against. If he likes his chances against the #1 RR group winner, he might not be as motivated to defeat Fed. If he fancies his chances against the #2 RR group winner, I would expect him to put in an honest effort to win his group. I'm sure his goal to to make the finals. Wouldn't anyone want to play against the opponent that he feels he has the most likely chance to defeat in a semi-final match so that he can get to the final?

As far as Federer...depends on how well Andy is playing...and which Roger shows up.

 

[Zaragoza]

Well, that's precisely why he won't win, what is the motivation for Roddick to win? it is a meaningless match, his mind is already on the semis, while this is a must-win for Fed, so I think its actually his worst chance in a while. Getting a win over Federer doesn't rank higher than getting a chance to make a Masters Cup final.

So many times in past masters cups, I've seen players who were 2-0, already assured of the semis, basically tank or go through the motions in their 3rd RR match(Sampras & Becker among others) I recall Fed one year look like he was practicing in his 3rd RR with Moya(which he did win in 3 sets, but obviously he wasn't going 100%)

I hope Roddick's not dumb enough to try too hard in this one, he has a real match to play on Saturday. This is an inherent flaw in the RR format.

Well, if he beats Federer (which I´m sure he really wants after all his losses and all the talk) he would probably take out Federer of the semifinals (if Gonzalez can win his match). I am sure if there is one player Roddick wants to beat it´s Federer and if he can also take him out of the semis he would have a good shot at the title so I think both things are motivating for him. The scenario would be really different if Federer goes through, can you see Roddick beating Federer in a best of 5 sets final?

 

[BiGGieStuFF]

Well, that's precisely why he won't win, what is the motivation for Roddick to win? it is a meaningless match, his mind is already on the semis, while this is a must-win for Fed, so I think its actually his worst chance in a while. Getting a win over Federer doesn't rank higher than getting a chance to make a Masters Cup final.

So many times in past masters cups, I've seen players who were 2-0, already assured of the semis, basically tank or go through the motions in their 3rd RR match(Sampras & Becker among others) I recall Fed one year look like he was practicing in his 3rd RR with Moya(which he did win in 3 sets, but obviously he wasn't going 100%)

I hope Roddick's not dumb enough to try too hard in this one, he has a real match to play on Saturday. This is an inherent flaw in the RR format.

Totally agree with the others about motivation for Roddick. If he beats Fed then he knocks Roger out IF Gonzalez can beat Davydenko. That way Andy won't have to see Fed again if he wins his semifinal match. That is enough motivation for Andy to win.

 

[Moose Malloy]

^ so you think players can afford to look ahead? I doubt Roddick is really thinking about playing Federer on Sunday, he's thinking about his opponent on Saturday. "one match at a time' is a cliche but its the truth. and roddick has never been in a masters cup final, so its even more absurd for him to be thinking that far ahead.

anyway I'm a bit confused about how Roddick is already assured of a spot in the semis. If he loses in straights & Gonzo wins in straights(a good possibility) all 3 will be 2-1, with their sets % like this:

Fed 5-2

Roddick 4-3

Gonzo 4-3

Fed would be in, so is head to head with Gonzo already being used with Roddick? I thought games % was used if sets are tied?

I recall in '97 the commentators said that Rafter was assured a spot in after winning his 1st 2 matches, but some weird scenario ended up eliminating him.

 

[TheOrangeRacquet]

Since Roddick Beat Gonzo they would put him in the semis instead of Gonzo no matter the sets.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Since Roddick Beat Gonzo they would put him in the semis instead of Gonzo no matter the sets.

Interesting. I just looked up the '97 field, both Rafter & Moya finished 4-3 in sets, & Rafter beat Moya in the RR, but didn't advance because Moya had a better % in games won. Guess they've changed the rules.

 

[BiGGieStuFF]

Interesting. I just looked up the '97 field, both Rafter & Moya finished 4-3 in sets, & Rafter beat Moya in the RR, but didn't advance because Moya had a better % in games won. Guess they've changed the rules.

I believe there was a 3 way tie with sampras as well. In that situation they go with games won in which case had more games than Rafter. I think?

 

[KBalla08]

Ok, so I just calculated the game %'s so far and...
Roddick's % is 63.6%
Gonzo's % is 43.14%
really the only way Gonzo can make it is if Roddick loses 0 and 0 to Fed, and Gonzo beats Davy 0 and 0 lol
I want Roddick to somehow beat Federer and Gonzo win, so Fed doesnt even make the Semis... that would be awesome

 

[superman1]

Well, that's precisely why he won't win, what is the motivation for Roddick to win? it is a meaningless match, his mind is already on the semis, while this is a must-win for Fed, so I think its actually his worst chance in a while. Getting a win over Federer doesn't rank higher than getting a chance to make a Masters Cup final.

Totally disagree. Federer took away Roddick's #1 ranking. Without Federer, Roddick probably would have won 3 of the 4 Slams by now and would be considered one of the greats. He NEEDS to get a win over Federer, just to prove that he's capable of it. He's going to go all-out in this match. Expect to see him put his heart into this one.

 

[fastdunn]

Well, then this could be a good chance for Roddick to try a different thing since he does not have pressure to win...
He can't beat Federer no matter what. Why not try totally different crazy approach like S&V, chip &charge 100%?

 

[Moose Malloy]

He can't beat Federer no matter what. Why not try totally different crazy approach like S&V, chip &charge 100%?

maybe he can play wearing a skirt & tiara as well.

Totally disagree. Federer took away Roddick's #1 ranking. Without Federer, Roddick probably would have won 3 of the 4 Slams by now and would be considered one of the greats. He NEEDS to get a win over Federer, just to prove that he's capable of it. He's going to go all-out in this match. Expect to see him put his heart into this one.

lol, Roddick was #1 for like 5 minutes. 'his #1 ranking?' you make it sound like Lendl or Sampras losing #1.

maybe you're right, but I've been watching this event for almost 20 years. And more often than not when a player clinches a spot for the semis, they usually treat the 3rd match as an extended practice session(which they sometimes end up winning as well)

Is putting 100% emotionally/physically into playing Federer worth risking being tapped out for a more important match the next day? I say no. And its not like his match on Sat is going to be easy, no matter who he plays. Roodick looked like he played 5 sets after losing 2 sets to Fed at the USO this year. He doesn't have a day off after playing Fed in this event to recover.

I recall Moya clinching his group & playing Costa(who still had a chance to qualify) in '02. The commentators were speculating if Moya should try hard since the semis were the next day. Moya ended up winning in a 3 hour match. He looked exhausted in his semi loss the next day.

believe there was a 3 way tie with sampras as well. In that situation they go with games won in which case had more games than Rafter. I think?

Sampras was 2-1 in matches, 5-2 in sets that year.

 

[Rhino]

^^^ Moose I don't know how Roddick thinks, but I would imagine beating Federer would be a huge career moment for him at this stage, and a great way to finish the year (with the added bonus of enhancing his chances to win the title as well).

 

[simi]

Let's not forget the money aspect either. That is a good motivator in and of itself. There is that extra bonus for being undefeated.

 

[Zaragoza]

anyway I'm a bit confused about how Roddick is already assured of a spot in the semis. If he loses in straights & Gonzo wins in straights(a good possibility) all 3 will be 2-1, with their sets % like this:

Fed 5-2

Roddick 4-3

Gonzo 4-3

Fed would be in, so is head to head with Gonzo already being used with Roddick? I thought games % was used if sets are tied?

I was thinking the same and these are the rules as I posted on the RR Question thread:

c) Head-to-head results if only 2 players are tied, or if 3 players are tied, then:
i) If 3 players each have one win, a player having played less than all 3 matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the Single Elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the 2 players tied with 1-2 records; or
ii) Highest percentage of sets won; or
iii) Highest percentage of games won.
iv) If (i), (ii) or (iii) produce one superior player (first place), or one inferior player (third place), and the two remaining players are tied, the tie between those two players shall be broken by head-to-head record.

I think the last paragraph iv) answers the question. Roddick is qualified.

 

[bangchu]

I agree Gonzalez played much better vs Federer then against Roddick, but Roddick also played much superior tennis vs Gonzalez then Federer did. Actually Roddick made it harder for Gonzalez to play as well since he wasnt making the easy unforced errors, displaying the sloppy footwork, and putting up those creampuff 2nd serves and midcourt shots begging to be hit that Federer was doing. Also while on a break point Roger would either play a tenative point, or hit an easy shot in the net, Roddick would instead play a strong point. The way Roger has played the last few months he honestly looks like one of the worst players in the top 10 at the moment. Speaking of playing worse, Davydenko played much worse against Federer then he did vs Roddick, Roddick also played better tennis vs Davydenko then Federer did.

I agree it is Roddick's best chance in awhile, and the biggest reason is nothing other then due to Federer's declining game.

I agree this is Roddick's best chance in a while. But we all know your intentions. That is to put down Federer. With the way Roger has been playing last couple months, he still won a tournament since US Open. What about your favorite player, Nadal? What kind of things has he done since US Open? Is he playing worse than Federer, of course. I don't want to start a war but it seems like you always wait for a chance to put down Federer. Don't hide your intentions with just a single neutral sentence. We all know you too well

 

[jhhachamp]

anyway I'm a bit confused about how Roddick is already assured of a spot in the semis. If he loses in straights & Gonzo wins in straights(a good possibility) all 3 will be 2-1, with their sets % like this:

Fed 5-2

Roddick 4-3

Gonzo 4-3

Fed would be in, so is head to head with Gonzo already being used with Roddick? I thought games % was used if sets are tied?

I was confused about the same thing. Maybe head to head is the first tie breaker and since all three beat each other, they go to sets. Federer get in based on his advantage, but Roddick and Gonzo are tied. Maybe they then go back to head to head between those two to determine who goes. It doesn't make much sense to me, but that's the only way I can see Roddick already assured a semi spot.

edit: looks like Zaragoza answered the question for both of us. That is how they do it. Seems strange to me.

 

[ananda]

How come Ferrer still is not assured of a spot in the semis when he is 2-0 and 4-1 (sets), same as Roddick ?

 

[lilxjohnyy]

cuz nadal is 3-3 ... ithink

 

[Deleted member 12045]

How come Ferrer still is not assured of a spot in the semis when he is 2-0 and 4-1 (sets), same as Roddick ?

Yes I second that !
Ferrer is the first to qualify beating N°3 and N°2 in the world
Roddick has not yet played with N°1 (that will be 2 set loss )

 

[Moose Malloy]

I hope Roddick's not dumb enough to try too hard in this one, he has a real match to play on Saturday. This is an inherent flaw in the RR format.

I was thinking that it would be extremely satisfying for Roddick to cause Federers exit (after all the exits that Federer has caused him), and also it will mean that he won't have to face him again in the final, should things pan out that way

Well, if he beats Federer (which I´m sure he really wants after all his losses and all the talk) he would probably take out Federer of the semifinals

Is putting 100% emotionally/physically into playing Federer worth risking being tapped out for a more important match the next day?

I recall Moya clinching his group & playing Costa(who still had a chance to qualify) in '02. The commentators were speculating if Moya should try hard since the semis were the next day. Moya ended up winning in a 3 hour match. He looked exhausted in his semi loss the next day.

Looks like this was probably the most meaningless match Roddick & Fed have ever played against each other(apparently Roddick had no chance to 'eliminate' Federer). Not saying this would have been any different if the circumstances were different, but now Roddick will be fresh for a tough battle with Ferrer, which was always more important than beating Fed in RR, imo.

 

[lambielspins]

Looks like this was probably the most meaningless match Roddick & Fed have ever played against each other(apparently Roddick had no chance to 'eliminate' Federer). Not saying this would have been any different if the circumstances were different, but now Roddick will be fresh for a tough battle with Ferrer, which was always more important than beating Fed in RR, imo.

Good idea, he will need every ounce of energy vs the much fitter and tougher baseline game of Ferrer, even in a best 2-of-3.