Roger’s BLX90

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Eh? Then it's not the retail k90 or blx ( or modified retail.
Yes, they were all retail K90's. All the Tour 90's (PS Tour 90, nCode 90, K90, BLX90) are ALL 17mm because they all come out of the same mold (despite what TW's specs may say). Thus, it's impossible for one to be thicker than the other.

If you check Wilson's official specs, you'll see that they are listed as being 17mm, and that's what I've measured.
 

Edberg

Banned
Of course it's the 12.5 oz. US version of the K90. It's been weighed by several people on this board. The Asian version would be way too light and under-powered for him or for any pro player for that matter. Heck, it's even too under-powered for me but I still use it because I like the feel of it and it's easy to swing. :)
Are you sure about this? I'm sure you have seen all of the lead tape placed at 12 oclock on the P1 photos. With all of that lead, couldn't that possibly be the Asian K90?

Given Feds muscle mass I don't think he could get the racquet head speed he does with the US K90 and lead at 12 oclock.

Do you know where I can get the AK BLX90 or the AK 90? Isn't that the closest racquet to the PS85?
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Are you sure about this? I'm sure you have seen all of the lead tape placed at 12 oclock on the P1 photos. With all of that lead, couldn't that possibly be the Asian K90?

Given Feds muscle mass I don't think he could get the racquet head speed he does with the US K90 and lead at 12 oclock.

Do you know where I can get the AK BLX90 or the AK 90? Isn't that the closest racquet to the PS85?
Yes, I'm sure. Swinging a racquet isn't about muscle mass in your arms. It's about timing and your core strength. Look at Nadal. He has huge arm muscles yet he uses a lighter racquet than Federer.

Federer couldn't hit the shots that he hits with an AK90 as it's too light and under-powered. You need the mass of the US K90 to generate the momentum that he does on his shots, especially his forehand, and to block back 140 mph serves with control, and also to put that much punch behind his volleys. Besides, he used a stock PS 6.0 85 for a long time which is much heavier and swings much heavier than the AK90.

No, I don't know where you can get the AK90 or ABLX90 except in Asia. And, no, they are not the closest racquets to the PS 6.0 85. The US K90, US BLX90, and KPS88 would all be closer to the PS 6.0 85. The PS 6.0 85 is a heavy racquet by today's standards, and I think it swings as heavy or heavier than the K90/BLX90 does.
 

2Hare

Semi-Pro
Are you sure about this? I'm sure you have seen all of the lead tape placed at 12 oclock on the P1 photos. With all of that lead, couldn't that possibly be the Asian K90?

Given Feds muscle mass I don't think he could get the racquet head speed he does with the US K90 and lead at 12 oclock.

Do you know where I can get the AK BLX90 or the AK 90? Isn't that the closest racquet to the PS85?
assuming the lead tapes in the p1 photos are only 1 layer, that's like less than 10g of lead for each racquet.
 

gino

Hall of Fame
I'm a little late to this thread, but way to go Fabfed. We all appreciate the time and effort you put into making the boards a more enjoyable place. The rackets always look great.

Thanks again

Gino
 

Gtennis

New User
Something strange about this BLX 6.1 90 Tour...

If you look at the pictures of the racquet, the specs of the raqcuet appear on the black side of the yoke where the sticker is, whereas all the retail racquets that I bought from TW have the specs printed on the red side of the yoke!!

Could this be one of the special/custom-made racquets for Federer?
 

corners

Legend
assuming the lead tapes in the p1 photos are only 1 layer, that's like less than 10g of lead for each racquet.
If it's one layer then it's between 3 and 5 grams. P1 has written on these boards that the lead is there to match the frames. If these are "retail" (but hand-chosen) US K90s then the total swingweight would end up around 350, which is what the poster Art Art has reported several times for Fed's sticks measured at tournaments.

One would think that a USK90 + 3-5 grams of lead, + heavy strings (gut + lux = 17 grams) + overgrip + stringsavers&powerpads would total more than 364 grams, but remember that these are hand-chosen frames and might be selected for being a little lighter than average. P1's custom handles might be lighter weight than stock PU handles as well.
 

Edberg

Banned
Yes, I'm sure. Swinging a racquet isn't about muscle mass in your arms. It's about timing and your core strength. Look at Nadal. He has huge arm muscles yet he uses a lighter racquet than Federer.

Federer couldn't hit the shots that he hits with an AK90 as it's too light and under-powered. You need the mass of the US K90 to generate the momentum that he does on his shots, especially his forehand, and to block back 140 mph serves with control, and also to put that much punch behind his volleys. Besides, he used a stock PS 6.0 85 for a long time which is much heavier and swings much heavier than the AK90.

No, I don't know where you can get the AK90 or ABLX90 except in Asia. And, no, they are not the closest racquets to the PS 6.0 85. The US K90, US BLX90, and KPS88 would all be closer to the PS 6.0 85. The PS 6.0 85 is a heavy racquet by today's standards, and I think it swings as heavy or heavier than the K90/BLX90 does.
Dude,

Wilson ProStaff 6.0 85
Technical & Statistical Data

Length 27 inches 69 centimeters
Head Size 85 square inches 548 square centimeters
Weight 12.6 ounces 357 grams
Balance Point 12.50 inches
31.5 centimeters 8pts Head Light
Shaft Width 17mm Straight Beam
Composition Braided Graphite & Kevlar
Babolat RDC Ratings
Score Grade
Flex Rating 66 Range: 0-100
Swing Weight 329 Range: 200-400
Maneuverability 67 A


Wilson K Factor Six One Tour 90 scores

Technical & Statistical Data
Length 27 inches 69 centimeters
Head Size 90 square inches 581 square centimeters
Weight 12.5 ounces 354 grams
Balance Point 12.375 inches
31 centimeters 9pts Head Light
Construction 18 mm Straight Beam
Composition nCoded High Modulus Graphite / Carbon Black
String Pattern 16 Mains / 19 Crosses
Babolat RDC Ratings
Score Grade
Flex Rating 67 Range: 0-100
Swing Weight 336 Range: 200-400



The swingweight is 7 points less for the 85.

Good times.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Dude,

Wilson ProStaff 6.0 85
Technical & Statistical Data

Length 27 inches 69 centimeters
Head Size 85 square inches 548 square centimeters
Weight 12.6 ounces 357 grams
Balance Point 12.50 inches
31.5 centimeters 8pts Head Light
Shaft Width 17mm Straight Beam
Composition Braided Graphite & Kevlar
Babolat RDC Ratings
Score Grade
Flex Rating 66 Range: 0-100
Swing Weight 329 Range: 200-400
Maneuverability 67 A


Wilson K Factor Six One Tour 90 scores

Technical & Statistical Data
Length 27 inches 69 centimeters
Head Size 90 square inches 581 square centimeters
Weight 12.5 ounces 354 grams
Balance Point 12.375 inches
31 centimeters 9pts Head Light
Construction 18 mm Straight Beam
Composition nCoded High Modulus Graphite / Carbon Black
String Pattern 16 Mains / 19 Crosses
Babolat RDC Ratings
Score Grade
Flex Rating 67 Range: 0-100
Swing Weight 336 Range: 200-400



The swingweight is 7 points less for the 85.

Good times.
The swingweight spec is not always a good indication of how hard it is to swing a racquet nor how heavy it feels in actual play. The swingweight spec is nothing more than a measurement taken by an inanimate machine by swinging the racquet using gravity like a pendulum. It has nothing to do with actually using the racquet to play tennis with by a real person. That's why the swingweight specs say the nCode 90 has a SW spec of only 326 even though it's harder to swing and feels heavier when swung and in actual play than the K90, which has a higher SW spec of 336. It's also why everyone says the Volkl PB 10 Mid swings much, much lighter than its SW spec of 337. This is also true of many other racquets. Thus, it's best to ignore the swingweight and stiffness specs and actually play with the racquets yourself. That's the only way to determine how heavy it actually swings and plays and how stiff it actually feels when you hit the ball.
 

Edberg

Banned
Well dead blam. I thought I could rely on the SW number as a measuring stick as to how heavy the racquet feels.

I called TW the other day and spoke to a mgr to ask if they were getting anymore PS 85. He said they asked Wilson to make some more and Wilson said no.

What are they thinking? (Wilson)
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Dude,

Wilson ProStaff 6.0 85
Technical & Statistical Data

Length 27 inches 69 centimeters
Head Size 85 square inches 548 square centimeters
Weight 12.6 ounces 357 grams
Balance Point 12.50 inches
31.5 centimeters 8pts Head Light
Shaft Width 17mm Straight Beam
Composition Braided Graphite & Kevlar
Babolat RDC Ratings
Score Grade
Flex Rating 66 Range: 0-100
Swing Weight 329 Range: 200-400
Maneuverability 67 A


Wilson K Factor Six One Tour 90 scores

Technical & Statistical Data
Length 27 inches 69 centimeters
Head Size 90 square inches 581 square centimeters
Weight 12.5 ounces 354 grams
Balance Point 12.375 inches
31 centimeters 9pts Head Light
Construction 18 mm Straight Beam
Composition nCoded High Modulus Graphite / Carbon Black
String Pattern 16 Mains / 19 Crosses
Babolat RDC Ratings
Score Grade
Flex Rating 67 Range: 0-100
Swing Weight 336 Range: 200-400



The swingweight is 7 points less for the 85.

Good times.
I own a PS 85 and have demoed a K90 several times. The 85 is definitely easier to swing.
 

Pioneer

Professional
Fabfed do you have a strung and overgripped 6.1? If so, could you just hold the Fed racquet in your hand and move it around, then hold the retail one and do the same and report back on whether the Fed stick feels a lot heavier
 

Fabfed

Semi-Pro
I have a strung and overgripped AK90 and ABLX90 but not the strung US versions of the sticks, so that's not gonna help. But I will get one of the US sticks strung this weekend, will let you guys know how it feels..
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Well dead blam. I thought I could rely on the SW number as a measuring stick as to how heavy the racquet feels.

I called TW the other day and spoke to a mgr to ask if they were getting anymore PS 85. He said they asked Wilson to make some more and Wilson said no.

What are they thinking? (Wilson)
People have been asking Wilson and TW for years to try and get Wilson to make more PS 6.0 85's and PS 6.0 95's to no avail. :(

Both are great racquets which have no direct replacements, despite what Wilson may think. The thing is, I think you can still buy both racquets in Japan.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I own a PS 85 and have demoed a K90 several times. The 85 is definitely easier to swing.
That depends on where your PS 6.0 85 was made and also which specific PS 6.0 85 and K90 you're swinging as Wilson's poor quality control means you can find anything you want if you look hard enough. :shock:
 

2Hare

Semi-Pro
If it's one layer then it's between 3 and 5 grams. P1 has written on these boards that the lead is there to match the frames. If these are "retail" (but hand-chosen) US K90s then the total swingweight would end up around 350, which is what the poster Art Art has reported several times for Fed's sticks measured at tournaments.

One would think that a USK90 + 3-5 grams of lead, + heavy strings (gut + lux = 17 grams) + overgrip + stringsavers&powerpads would total more than 364 grams, but remember that these are hand-chosen frames and might be selected for being a little lighter than average. P1's custom handles might be lighter weight than stock PU handles as well.
I'm not questioning the weight, just Edberg make it seem like there's a lot of lead on the head, which isn't true like you said. they are just there to match to specs of older racquets. And if Sampras can swing a PS85 with 3-4 layers of lead at 3 and 9, I'm sure Fed have no problem swinging a 6.1 90 with a few grams of lead.
 

Kemitak

Professional
I just thought that Roger used a Lux/Gut set-up, but these racquets look like they're just strung with NXT or something. Maybe it's the photo, or maybe it's the beer I'm drinking...
 

Edberg

Banned
People have been asking Wilson and TW for years to try and get Wilson to make more PS 6.0 85's and PS 6.0 95's to no avail. :(

Both are great racquets which have no direct replacements, despite what Wilson may think. The thing is, I think you can still buy both racquets in Japan.
Do you have a source in Japan?

By the way I just bought a St Vincent yesterday from a nice fellow in Cali who said he has over 50 Pro Staff 85's!
 
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DudeBro

Banned
I just thought that Roger used a Lux/Gut set-up, but these racquets look like they're just strung with NXT or something. Maybe it's the photo, or maybe it's the beer I'm drinking...
Sir, can you please put the beer down and back slowly away, keep your hands where I can see them.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Do you have a source in Japan?

By the way I just bought a St Vincent yesterday from a nice fellow in Cali who said he has over 50 Pro Staff 85's!
Sorry but I don't. Do a search on the Yahoo Japan website. There are many dealers in Japan that will probably ship overseas.
 

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
Greg Raven has his frame and the balance was 31.5, with a 362.5g weight and a 338 SW. If I'm willing to trust anybody it's the guy who is a pro stringer and has a picture of Fed's K6.1 with the little "ROGER" sticker above the grip and the powerpads
I've never really been interested in Federer's exact racquet specs, so this is all quite new to me, but now my friend has one of his racquets (earlier in this thread Ron confirmed he strung that racquet), I am taking an interest:)

Greg's specs look like they may be about right to me, but if they are then surely Art Art's (balance 31.8, weight 364g, SW 355) are wrong. I don't see how they can both be right, as they have similar balance and weight but SW is totally different!

My friends Federer racquet has a balance of 32.1cm, but I don't know weight or SW yet. I will try and find out, although it may take a while.
I still don't see how Greg and ArtArt can both be right. Nobody has explained how with a weight of about 364g, the SW can be 355 on such a HL racquet?

My friend can't weigh his racquet (no scales, but it's probably about 364g anyway) and can't measure SW. However he has checked under grommets/bumper at top of racquet and there is one layer of very thin lead across the top 10 grommets (on both sides), about 5" or 12cm each side, which I guess would only be about 3g in weight. He also carefully looked under overgrip, and it is a P1 leather grip underneath not Wilson!

So along with balance of 32.1cm, that's all the info I can get on this Federer K90 racquet. Am looking forward to seeing balance of Fabfeds 4 racquets.

Thanks in advance Fabfed, and I hope you enjoy the Grand Prix:)
 
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jimbo333

Hall of Fame
Retail is the top photo ... That's my photo of my frame :) bottom one is from priority 1
Hi, sorry I didn't give you credit for the photo!

Well spotted by the way, and this along with throat specs on opposite red/black; either shows that Federer had very early different version of the retail BLX90 as a hairpin for his racquets this year. Or more likely, I reckon it is a retail/custom K90 under that BLX paintjob.

However, whatever these specs show, we will never know for sure until someone cuts up one of Federer's racquets to compare to retail racquet, and I don't think that will ever happen. So effectively it will remain a mystery and just be speculation!
 

Fabfed

Semi-Pro
I still don't see how Greg and ArtArt can both be right. Nobody has explained how with a weight of about 364g, the SW can be 355 on such a HL racquet?

My friend can't weigh his racquet (no scales, but it's probably about 364g anyway) and can't measure SW. However he has checked under grommets/bumper at top of racquet and there is one layer of very thin lead across the top 10 grommets (on both sides), about 5" or 12cm each side, which I guess would only be about 3g in weight. He also carefully looked under overgrip, and it is a P1 leather grip underneath not Wilson!

So along with balance of 32.1cm, that's all the info I can get on this Federer K90 racquet. Am looking forward to seeing balance of Fabfeds 4 racquets.

Thanks in advance Fabfed, and I hope you enjoy the Grand Prix:)
Hey jimbo, thanks. Wow, very brave of your friend to look both under the bumper and overgrip :) I should be getting the balance board by tomorrow, so I'll get the racquets measured soon.
 

zorg

Professional
And have you gotten a chance to measure the grip Fabfed? Well, whenever you do, just make sure to do it 3-4 inches from the butt cap.
 

Fabfed

Semi-Pro
And have you gotten a chance to measure the grip Fabfed? Well, whenever you do, just make sure to do it 3-4 inches from the butt cap.
Yep, will do it together with the balance, no worries I will measure at the centre of the grip.
 

Pioneer

Professional
Jimbo, it is possible to have a 364g racquet with a 31.7 balance and a 355 SW but you would have to have most of the weight of the frame at the very top and at the very bottom.
 
Sorry BP, but as I have pointed out, the moulds for BLX and K are different. As shown by the difference in the shape and with of the dent for the bumper.
 

nicolaisidek

Semi-Pro
Can anyone tell me what's the difference between a normal L3 grip and Fed's L3 grip handle? (applies to all pros who custom their handle). They look the same to me....
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
Sorry BP, but as I have pointed out, the moulds for BLX and K are different. As shown by the difference in the shape and with of the dent for the bumper.
I'm pretty sure BP has been inside one of Wilson's racquet Layup rooms in Evanston, IL and measured the mould and compared it to various frames while he was there.

I trust hes right and you're confused.

:eek:
 
I'm pretty sure BP has been inside one of Wilson's racquet Layup rooms in Evanston, IL and measured the mould and compared it to various frames while he was there.

I trust hes right and you're confused.

:eek:
The measures might be the same, but there is a difference as you can check for yourself if you care to. But it might not be of big significance.
 

PeterFig

Professional
Hi, sorry I didn't give you credit for the photo!

Well spotted by the way, and this along with throat specs on opposite red/black; either shows that Federer had very early different version of the retail BLX90 as a hairpin for his racquets this year. Or more likely, I reckon it is a retail/custom K90 under that BLX paintjob.

However, whatever these specs show, we will never know for sure until someone cuts up one of Federer's racquets to compare to retail racquet, and I don't think that will ever happen. So effectively it will remain a mystery and just be speculation!
Nooo worries :) I post images here for everyone to share / use so no need for credit :)

You know I think it's going to be tough to really figure out what Fed's really using. We're all assuming the paint job is consistent coming from Wilson on retail frames, but we don't know that for a fact. Just as an example I bought a BLX 90 just as it was released. Then I went and bought two more a few months later. When I compare the two there are very noticeable differences in the 'gold' paint used on the frames. One is really 'golden' while the other is quite 'silvery' ... so that's just paint colour to make the more recent frames more gold looking (I'm sure to better match the other BLX items such as bags which are a strong gold colour). But who knows what other tweaks Wilson has done during their production process. This happens with many products not just tennis racquets. Manufacturers may tweak things along the way for many reasons... aesthetic or otherwise.

Now, I'm not suggesting they would actually move grommet holes and such - but for example the placement of specs... the placement of text on the frame in relation to grommets, etc might be something they tweak along the way.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Sorry BP, but as I have pointed out, the moulds for BLX and K are different. As shown by the difference in the shape and with of the dent for the bumper.
Could you please be more specific as to exact differences in the shapes and with the dent for the bumpers? Because I haven't noticed any difference.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Can anyone tell me what's the difference between a normal L3 grip and Fed's L3 grip handle? (applies to all pros who custom their handle). They look the same to me....
Federer's custom handles are probably molded to fit his hand exactly the way he likes it to fit. It may also be made of a different material than the stock handles.

I've bought many retail racquets that are supposed to be and indicated to be the same size grip but in actuality when you hold them you can tell they are not the same size. The variation can be pretty large at times so that a 4 1/2 may feel more like a 4 3/8 or a 4 5/8. So the pros get their handles custom molded to insure that they are all the same exact size that they like so that each one feels perfect to them.
 

whomad15

Semi-Pro
isn't it odd that the quality control is so poor on racquets that the pro's have to have every single racquet built to their specs?
it's like the big name guitar companies... QC is just down the hole right now, if you look you'll notice most of the big guitar players are starting to pick up boutique brands because of this.
 
Could you please be more specific as to exact differences in the shapes and with the dent for the bumpers? Because I haven't noticed any difference.
I went to my local shop some months ago, and compared a K90 and a BLX90, they had both at the time. Being very curious about whether they are identical I examined them closely. I noticed a definite difference in the depth/with of the dent for bumper, it was clearest to see in the lower end of the dent, towards the grip. Which one was deepest/widest I cant remember now, I think it was the BLX.
Its like I have to versions of a Dunlop squash racket, look very identical, but different paintjob, and slightly different weight. Also here a difference in the shape of this slot/dent, showed that the new version was a new mould, although apparently similar to the old one in most respects.
I know we are getting a bit neerdy/geeky here, but what the heck...
 

Fabfed

Semi-Pro
I went to my local shop some months ago, and compared a K90 and a BLX90, they had both at the time. Being very curious about whether they are identical I examined them closely. I noticed a definite difference in the depth/with of the dent for bumper, it was clearest to see in the lower end of the dent, towards the grip. Which one was deepest/widest I cant remember now, I think it was the BLX.
Its like I have to versions of a Dunlop squash racket, look very identical, but different paintjob, and slightly different weight. Also here a difference in the shape of this slot/dent, showed that the new version was a new mould, although apparently similar to the old one in most respects.
I know we are getting a bit neerdy/geeky here, but what the heck...
What dent are you referring to, the stringing groove? If you can be more specific perhaps I can do a closer comparison of the Fed K90 and BLX. I've always assumed that the retail K90 and BLX were identical at least mould wise..
 

safinator

Rookie
Before anything, I want to thank FabFed and Ron for sharing with us all the pics and genuine first hand information about fed's stick, the actual ones, and for bringing us a bit closer to the ATP world - it is cool just to know something more about them.
Concerning the balance and weight issue, my best guess would be that his stick are even further from the retail, that they weigh much less so that they would have more "space" for customization issues. But it is just a supposition...
 
What dent are you referring to, the stringing groove? If you can be more specific perhaps I can do a closer comparison of the Fed K90 and BLX. I've always assumed that the retail K90 and BLX were identical at least mould wise..
Maybe its called the stringing groove, I dont know. Its the slot, dent, groove in which the bumper is located. Goes around the head from, say 7 to 5 o'clock. Easiest to compare at the the ends, ie 7 and 5.
 
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