Roger’s defeatist mindset

TJfederer16

Hall of Fame
He played great today there’s no doubt about it, and there are many positives that come out of this match but I still can’t escape the fact why Roger can be so defeatist. The way he just went away in that final set tiebreak was just bizarre. The lack of intensity he brought into that tiebreak, it looked as if he had accepted defeat as soon as Novak held his first two points of the breaker. Tiredness shouldn’t be an excuse for this as the adrenaline should be running at its highest at this crucial stage of the match. Clearly he’s still low on confidence but for Christ sake at least try to win the breaker.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Roger said on Wednesday he wasn't coming to Paris to win, he was focusing on London. This match has to give him a boatload of confidence. He's had a long history of not performing well in third-set TB's, even in his peak years. And did anyone really expect Roger to win this match at his age? Come on, let's be realistic here.
 

TJfederer16

Hall of Fame
Roger said on Wednesday he wasn't coming to Paris to win, he was focusing on London. This match has to give him a boatload of confidence. He's had a long history of not performing well in third-set TB's, even in his peak years. And did anyone really expect Roger to win this match at his age? Come on, let's be realistic here.
Agreed. Can’t complain too much with that performance considering the form he’s showed this second half of the season.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
I don't know how you fight all the way to the 3rd set TB then just GIFT it so easily. You're better off just getting your paycheck and going home after 2 quick sets
Yup. Same thing happened in the final set TB against Del Potro at Indian Wells. Just completely went away. Heck, a guy could just stand 10 feet back and whack the fuzz off the ball and go for broke and probably have more success and mix it up with some S&V.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah he's not exactly strong mentally when it comes down to the wire. Might have to do with his offensive game. Djokovic can just keep on defending, while Fed has to keep making those difficult winners under enormous pressure.
Wasn't Sampras hailed as a super clutch player? He wasn't really a grinder right?

Aggressive players have more variance, so they should have more room to underperform or overperform in important situation.
 
T

TennisFan97068

Guest
Same thing happened in the final Tiebreak in the Potro and Millman matches.In those he had 2 DFs unlike one like today.
 

TheAssassin

Legend
I think he was far more likely to lose before any deciding set tiebreak arrived, and I doubt anyone with a defeatist attitude would have pushed the match that far to begin with, saving all 12 break points he faced and converting what was nearly his only opportunity.
 

BHServe

Semi-Pro
Roger said on Wednesday he wasn't coming to Paris to win, he was focusing on London. This match has to give him a boatload of confidence. He's had a long history of not performing well in third-set TB's, even in his peak years. And did anyone really expect Roger to win this match at his age? Come on, let's be realistic here.
I’m a Fed fan and I have to say that this age excuse is laughable in this context.

When you get to a decider’s tie break it tells that you are in form good enough to win wether you are 47, 37 or 27 years old. And if you think Fed has even the slightest piece of that mindset you are promoting he would have retired a good while ago.
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
That was mentally really poor from Roger in the last TB but not because of defeatist attitude. It is the opposite. Wanted to win so badly he got too nervous when it came to the finish line. It is the story of quite a few losses in his career and those are always the most painful ones, for him too I think.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Honestly the 1st set TB is where he needed to go for it and didn't. That was the winnable TB and he just couldn't do it.
Reminds me of my greatest top spin rival so much. Of course, we have closer relationship than Roger and Novak, so he will tell me what is on his mind after the match etc. Usually get a lot of I needed to win that second set tiebreak or you're coming back to get me. And I usually do.
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
Yeah he’s rubies in those crucial moments

When he gets a bit more experience facing those situations in big matches he should be able to handle them better
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Well someone was going to blink first, but I don't think Federer had a defeatist mindset, Djokovic was just mentally stronger towards the end...his serving just got better and better.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Roger said on Wednesday he wasn't coming to Paris to win, he was focusing on London. This match has to give him a boatload of confidence. He's had a long history of not performing well in third-set TB's, even in his peak years. And did anyone really expect Roger to win this match at his age? Come on, let's be realistic here.
I don't think he had any expectations until late in the 3rd set when he realized he could actually pull this thing off. He started getting grumpy and went back down double break point again, barely surviving at 4-4 iirc, but his serve was getting more erratic as the pressure mounted. And that ultimately came to a head in the breaker.

He's at his most shaky these days when he can see the finish line. How many times this year has he botched a tiebreak or broken when serving for the match?
 

OhYes

Legend
He played great today there’s no doubt about it, and there are many positives that come out of this match but I still can’t escape the fact why Roger can be so defeatist. The way he just went away in that final set tiebreak was just bizarre. The lack of intensity he brought into that tiebreak, it looked as if he had accepted defeat as soon as Novak held his first two points of the breaker. Tiredness shouldn’t be an excuse for this as the adrenaline should be running at its highest at this crucial stage of the match. Clearly he’s still low on confidence but for Christ sake at least try to win the breaker.
One step at a time. He can't play good with confidence and win in the end.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
I guess the other way of looking at it is that it shouldn't be too surprising when the #3 player in the world plays a highly competitive match against the #2 player in the world.
And another way of looking at that is with the kind of game/form he has displayed since AO, he has no business being number 3 at the moment.
 
That was mentally really poor from Roger in the last TB but not because of defeatist attitude. It is the opposite. Wanted to win so badly he got too nervous when it came to the finish line. It is the story of quite a few losses in his career and those are always the most painful ones, for him too I think.
For the love of god can you stop with this mentally weak BS. He fought incredibly hard all match and sometimes one loses a run of points like Djokovic did at various times in the match.
 

Jonas78

Legend
And another way of looking at that is with the kind of game/form he has displayed since AO, he has no business being number 3 at the moment.
He doesnt have a top10 win sinse february:eek:. But he looked better today, lets hope he can be in decent form for WTF and then AO:)
 

Mike Sams

Legend
To be fair, and i say this as a Fed-fan, saving 12/12 BPs isnt defeatist. The best player won today, Djoker should have finished him off before TBs
Easier when Federer's hitting about 70% slices off his BH instead of driving through with the BH.
Even worse, slicing back Djokovic's 2nd serves. Weak stuff overall. Not sure if Federer expected himself to have a chance and was just trying his old tactics to see if he could make it a closer match than the Cincy final.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
And another way of looking at that is with the kind of game/form he has displayed since AO, he has no business being number 3 at the moment.
Lol, he's not been that bad. You Fed fans just have exceedingly high expectations of him all the time. ;)
 

Mike Sams

Legend
For the love of god can you stop with this mentally weak BS. He fought incredibly hard all match and sometimes one loses a run of points like Djokovic did at various times in the match.
I don't think slicing back 2nd serves is what I'd call "trying really hard". He's using tactics that failed against Nadal all those years. What happened to the BH drive from 2017 when he was hitting the fuzz off the ball in rallies? Where was the attacking and the aggression on the Djokovic second serves? He was slicing those balls back and just getting into rallies.
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
For the love of god can you stop with this mentally weak BS. He fought incredibly hard all match and sometimes one loses a run of points like Djokovic did at various times in the match.
He got very nervous in that TB and ultimately that resulted in him going down 4-1. Not being able to overcome nerves when under pressure is a weakness which he showed in that moment. I consider him extremely mentally tough overall and his career is there to prove it but there are moments like these that happen, I just call at as I see it. Like if I said Federer played sh*tty in the last TB that's not my saying he always plays badly in tie-breakers.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
Lol, he's not been that bad. You Fed fans just have exceedingly high expectations of him all the time. ;)
Are you following the season? He started 17-0 and now is what, some 45-8??? And in between you see who he lost to, esp at WIM and USO. You really think that is TOP 3 stuff. It is his AO win that is still holding him at number 3.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Closest he has come to beating Djokovic in a long while and gives him some hope for when they next meet in London in a fortnight's time.

Agree with those who said he should have wrapped up that 1st set breaker when he had several minibreaks but choked them all away. If he hadn't done that he would probably have won the match.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
He doesnt have a top10 win sinse february:eek:. But he looked better today, lets hope he can be in decent form for WTF and then AO:)
His overall ground game has been non existent. He showed some signs today but nothing which suggests to me that he could do it consistently. I know he played some sublime BH DTLs today, but his overall game on his BH side, to me, was very weak.

All this in mind, he will continue to challenge anyone not named Novak and Nadal. But against these two, esp Novak, I doubt he will be a big challenge at WTF leave alone AO.
 
His overall ground game has been non existent. He showed some signs today but nothing which suggests to me that he could do it consistently. I know he played some sublime BH DTLs today, but his overall game on his BH side, to me, was very weak.

All this in mind, he will continue to challenge anyone not named Novak and Nadal. But against these two, esp Nadal, I doubt he will be a big challenge at WTF leave alone AO.
RAFA's dead
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
How about a little sympathy for Federer? Sure, he may have a lot of trouble clipping Djokovic, but in that respect he has a lot of company, right? Fed's not 23 years old anymore. That performance today was miraculous. These types of losses will all be excused by the age difference when the history is written. This doesn't make Djokovic the greater player overall. The talk will be along the lines of, how does Federer still do it, and so forth. That kind of thing enhances his reputation, it doesn't hurt.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
I don't think slicing back 2nd serves is what I'd call "trying really hard". He's using tactics that failed against Nadal all those years. What happened to the BH drive from 2017 when he was hitting the fuzz off the ball in rallies? Where was the attacking and the aggression on the Djokovic second serves? He was slicing those balls back and just getting into rallies.
Exactly ... except for some great BH DTL he was contend to slice it out. Not sure what the problem is that is causing him having such low confidence with his BH
 
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