Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by tennissportsrog, Sep 2, 2012.
Golden era posters in former pro section
Dull era posters in current pro section
kiki, some posters of this section would rather fit for the current section ;-)
I meant Nadal is excellent on clay. He has won 43% return games on clay. Due to that high percentage in clay he has an edge over Federer in career stats. I said the stats are skewed by clay.
Again return and return games won are different. It's tough to play Nadal on clay and he breaks serves a lot, that has got more to do with his general game than return as a stroke.
Djokovic has a losing record against Roddick. Much of these matches were when Roddick was past his prime. Peak Roddick had a poor record against Federer.
I don't intend to say Federer is better than Djokovic in return but Federer is not bad
Feather, Thanks for this serious post.
much less than me or many of the others here .... how can you judge that well when you haven't seen that much including matches where he struggled vs good serving ?
besides it wasn't just those 2 matches ... I mentioned other things as well
his record vs roddick, some struggles vs the tsonga serve on occasions
you didn't respond to any of that.
yes, in 2012, well past his peak. Djokovic lost to isner in his peak year in 2012 ...
lo and behold. This is the guy whining about people "attacking" him ....
The irony of it all ..........
No need of thanks. Nothing is personal. I respect you for your tremendous knowledge about past Tennis and I have expressed my disagreement with you regarding issues that I don't agree with. Please accept my apologies if anything crossed the border while debating
I won't be around for sometime. It was nice discussing with you all. Catch you all later after few weeks.
abmk I'm sorry that my harmless joke insulted you.
Feather, Thanks for your words! I also apologize for some bad words I have written.
By the way, You are not on my ignore list ;-)
Have a good time!
rest assured, the only feeling I felt on reading that post was laughter .......
abmk, Fine, then my joke has worked well ;-)
I wish I was a multislam poster as Kodes
That's a convincing explanation, except that Natf and Krosero have given an even more convincing explanation you did not address. They provided stats that show that the serving game hold is increasing, with a theory to explain it.
You are right that our discussion involve subjectivity. Howeither, some position are better backed up than others. I think there is less subjectivity in ranking Nadal as an all time top 10 than Hoad, for example.
If the service hold numbers have increased over time, I would submit that the advantages of serving with modern tech vs. old tech have outweighed the return advantages. The primary style of play has changed over time of course. Then, that would account for some part of the big gap between Borg's percentages for return games won versus Federer and others. Even so, you are left to make a subjective assessment as to each player. As to Nadal and Hoad, you could objectively assert that Nadal won more of certain titles for example, but you can't then avoid an subjective assessment as to peak level of play for example, with is an important criterion.
Thanks for your answer. Don't you think that winning titles is a good indicator of peak play, or at least a better indicator that the subjective impression from a spectator or an opponent?
Sure, then you also have to compare the player's opponents and surface versatility as well. You should definitely look at winning titles, absolutely, but context is a must as well. Thanks.
I wish I was Shevchenko
Bayern is next euro dominator
Kiki, here are some Kodes pics! Go Kodes!
Great pics buddy
Last time I watched Kodes it was about 79 or 80
Agree...now they bought Goetze from Borussia...these guys will have a historic great time...the events from last two days are earth shattering
Ich mag Deutschland!
Cool, you obviously admired him. I've only seen a bit of Kodes on old tennis films. He strikes me as a gritty, crafty player.
A lion on court great all round game
Like Hewitt Kodes overachieved a little bit
He was funnier to watch
I normally watch tennis for fun, shall I add
kiki, I respect Kodes as a great player. The problem with him might be that his peak or even prime was relatively short, about five years only.
yes, from 70 till 75, that makes no more than 6 years.He relied on his body and that may explain a bit.His last big result was winning Madrid on cc over the likes of Borg,Nastase,Vilas,Panatta,orantes and ramirez
Merkel will be still more unbearable...or as Don Silvio said, un...
kiki, "Don" Silvio is more unbearable than even "Angie". ;-)
We should hit up one of his parties one of these days
I am dazzed and confused
HAIDER at least was funny...
Yes, he once even played tennis with Ken Rosewall at Pörtschach, Austria...
Good¡¡ I didn´t know.
I think the best ever politician tennis player was jimmy Carter or Giscard D´estaing?
kiki, It was of course a pro/am fun match. I don't remember their opponents.
If you include even monarchs maybe king Gustav V of Sweden was the best politician tennis player.
kiki, a friend told me that two sons of George Bush sen,Marvin and Jeb, beat Chris Evert and Pam Shriver in a doubles match. Shriver had a shoulder injury though.
Yes he even had the stockholm indoor named after him
At least a win for the Bushes...
Thus they were more successful than their brother...
Neither Nadal nor a Murrey mother agrees.
Roger is classy as usual. wise and modest.
Maybe Tony Godsick was holding his hand and whispered in his ear the answers?
Oh, Sampras era was not true tennis, no? by ******.
Murray aside...Fed Nadal and Djoko are a hell of a three headed monster. The way Djokovic keeps climbing the ladder, there's no stopping him
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