Roger Federer is the Andrei Shevchenko of Tennis.
- Thread starter Goosehead
- Start date
kOaMaster
Hall of Fame
wtf? shevchenko was good, ok, but he was clearly never among the best players of history.
but I definitely can not see federer going into politics, he would have a very very hard time given he's tennis player. the politic system here in switzerland is nowhere close to that in the ukraine and rather pragmatic. plus, silent hard workers in the back tend to have more political success than outloud announcers (or people that are already famous) ... you have to earn the position with politics, not popularity
but I definitely can not see federer going into politics, he would have a very very hard time given he's tennis player. the politic system here in switzerland is nowhere close to that in the ukraine and rather pragmatic. plus, silent hard workers in the back tend to have more political success than outloud announcers (or people that are already famous) ... you have to earn the position with politics, not popularity
TJfederer16
Hall of Fame
No he's the Pele/Zidane/Messi of tennis
THESEXPISTOL
Hall of Fame
The three of them combined...
More Zidane, I would say. They both do outrageous things just because they can - like Zidane's chip penalty in the 2006 World Cup Final, or when Federer played a decent drop shot on match point of the 2010 AO final (yes, Murray just got to it, but it's more the confidence of playing a cheeky shot on such an important occasion).
Goosehead
Legend
yes but messi has not gone into politics and Shevchenko has.
Wynter
Legend
forzamilan90
Legend
Love Sheva, my Milan idol, but there is nothing similar between those two. If there is one soccer player I'd compare Federer to it would be Zidane. Both play their respective sports with such grace and aesthetic elegance. Both conquered the highest peak in their respective sports, yet both can have outbursts of anger, both are legends of the highest order.
Zidane to me was the best midfielder I've ever seen. Best defender was Maldini, and best attacker I have to go with Cristiano Ronaldo.
Federer is of course the ultimate tennis player. Unsurpassed to me.
Zidane to me was the best midfielder I've ever seen. Best defender was Maldini, and best attacker I have to go with Cristiano Ronaldo.
Federer is of course the ultimate tennis player. Unsurpassed to me.
forzamilan90
Legend
Federer doesn't have sidekicks (the greatest Spanish generation of all time, especially the midfield core backing you up) while Nadal may or may not be doping.
And btw what do you mean Federer hasn't? He hasn't beaten Nadal in important matches? He has his loses vs Nadal.....Messi has his losses vs strong defenses (Inter and Chelsea shut his ***** down).
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forzamilan90
Legend
He just can't perform against Chelsea
or vs anyone that parks the bus or plays Catenaccio
forzamilan90
Legend
but neither has Federer, so this whole topic is a complete hypothetical
OddJack
G.O.A.T.
If you knew who Mikhail Baryshnikov is you probably would've picked him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8__iRsxG_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8__iRsxG_A
Goosehead
Legend
no you lot don't get it..i picked ANDREI SHEVCHENKO because he was a top class sportsman and is now into Ukraine politics..(the fatherland party)..
..then I noticed a thread "is nadal the xyz of tennis", (some American sportsbloke??) so just after I heard Shevchenko on telly I saw that nadal thread and thought hmmmm wonder if Federer would do something similar as sheva..because its impossible to think of nadal or Federer without thinking of the other one right ?. :twisted:
you've got to think outside the box :neutral: a rafa thread/sheva on telly/a Federer thread based on the fact that in tennis he is entwined with rafa, then I made this thread worded in the same style as the rafa thread..
apart from the two titles, the theme was sportmen moving into politics, so on with the fed. >>>>
..then I noticed a thread "is nadal the xyz of tennis", (some American sportsbloke??) so just after I heard Shevchenko on telly I saw that nadal thread and thought hmmmm wonder if Federer would do something similar as sheva..because its impossible to think of nadal or Federer without thinking of the other one right ?. :twisted:
you've got to think outside the box :neutral: a rafa thread/sheva on telly/a Federer thread based on the fact that in tennis he is entwined with rafa, then I made this thread worded in the same style as the rafa thread..
apart from the two titles, the theme was sportmen moving into politics, so on with the fed. >>>>
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Goosehead
Legend
no, do try and keep up old bean, he was not a world class sportsman that recently went into politics was he.
he didn't play for ac Milan. or lead Ukraine to a first ever qualification to the world cup finals.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
LOL. Poor Goosehead. His comparison is apt for his point but people are really hooked up on the details.
It does seem like Federer could head down a Shevchenkian or Kasparovian road. I have a feeling he won't disappear into the background after his retirement, though he may have a quiet couple of years. He might have his feet and hands in many pies with the main ones being business or politics related (a position of power in the tennis world is more along the lines of what I'm thinking, on both counts.. or at least sport).
It does seem like Federer could head down a Shevchenkian or Kasparovian road. I have a feeling he won't disappear into the background after his retirement, though he may have a quiet couple of years. He might have his feet and hands in many pies with the main ones being business or politics related (a position of power in the tennis world is more along the lines of what I'm thinking, on both counts.. or at least sport).
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Messi has been generally rubbish against his greatest rivals i.e. anyone Argentina face.
Federer's longevity and career achievements would make him more of a Franz Beckenbauer of tennis imo. That or Pele or Eusebio (R.I.P.).
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer has 17 Slam trophies. Bergkamp has 1 World Cup semifinal. Won the UEFA Cup. And that's that. The Ajax he left, that was supposed to be much weaker for that, actually won the Champions League. Something he never managed to do as a player.
Bad analogy imo.
Goosehead
Legend
to be fair bergkamp won league titles in Holland and 3 in the premier league, and all those f a cups.
Marty Cintron
Semi-Pro
If Federer were to get into politics, he would demand 100,000$ for each of his meetings.
Wynter
Legend
I actually admire the Catenaccio it's a great tac
I don't rate him internationally though, he doesn't perform to his usual standards
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
So Gaudio status at most maybe.
PaulFCB
Semi-Pro
Federer - Seedorf - Long careers, 3x GS for Federer won many times, Seedorf won CL with 3 different teams. FO was weak spot for Roger, Inter period was weak period for Clarence.
Nadal - Ibrahimovic - Nadal excels at French Open, Ibrahimovic at domestic titles. Nadal doesn't excel at other Grand Slams, though he won a few, Ibrahimovic generally failed big time in continental disputes, never won a CL and usually at the point his team faced a though opponent he disappeared from the scene.
Djokovic - Ronaldinho - Both look like the best ever in their sport, but for a very short time, still, in their prime, looks like nobody at his best could come and beat them. Prime Djoker 2011 / Prime Ronnie Beginning 2004 till around Spring 2006 with a quick total fade during the 2006 WC.
Agassi - Baggio - Both have many achievements in the 90's, but they have many regrets. Baggio's penalty in L.A. Final and not winning a World Cup ( it was still so important back then, CL was still young ), Agassi being bossed around by Sampras.
Roddick - Reyes - Both looked like future superstars, Roddick wins US Open 2003 and promises a lot, Reyes 2003/04 season at Arsenal promised a lot, Roddick ended up being Federer's b!!!!!.
Sampras - Ronaldo ( the real one )
Ivanisevic - Javier Zanetti
Safin - Gatusso
Nadal - Ibrahimovic - Nadal excels at French Open, Ibrahimovic at domestic titles. Nadal doesn't excel at other Grand Slams, though he won a few, Ibrahimovic generally failed big time in continental disputes, never won a CL and usually at the point his team faced a though opponent he disappeared from the scene.
Djokovic - Ronaldinho - Both look like the best ever in their sport, but for a very short time, still, in their prime, looks like nobody at his best could come and beat them. Prime Djoker 2011 / Prime Ronnie Beginning 2004 till around Spring 2006 with a quick total fade during the 2006 WC.
Agassi - Baggio - Both have many achievements in the 90's, but they have many regrets. Baggio's penalty in L.A. Final and not winning a World Cup ( it was still so important back then, CL was still young ), Agassi being bossed around by Sampras.
Roddick - Reyes - Both looked like future superstars, Roddick wins US Open 2003 and promises a lot, Reyes 2003/04 season at Arsenal promised a lot, Roddick ended up being Federer's b!!!!!.
Sampras - Ronaldo ( the real one )
Ivanisevic - Javier Zanetti
Safin - Gatusso
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Vcore89
Talk Tennis Guru
Very interesting and quite amusing, really. So who would be Pele, Marco Van Basten, C. Ronaldo?
Wynter
Legend
Ronaldo and Safin have many parallels
At their Peak people consider them the best they've ever seen, their peaks though were cut down by injuries and they both loved to party.
Safin, gets the USO at 20? Ronaldo Best Player in the world at 19
Had mini revivals after horrid injuries, Safin 05 Aus Open, Ronaldo 2002 World Cup, and first few years at Madrid, however injuries took their toll and they both had to retire, slipping from memory (Djokovic and Cristiano?)
Ronaldo is greater in his peak performance though, and the level he played at non-peak
What ROnaldo did at 19 Messi only did at 23 for example, he was an absolute monster, and deserves to be in the greatest ever discussion. He was the piece the 2002 team neededeven though he was lambasted for being selected
Plus the infamous 1998 final.
Some Ronaldo Brilliance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVueW6X7TM0
And the best goal ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE774yQX6uQ
At their Peak people consider them the best they've ever seen, their peaks though were cut down by injuries and they both loved to party.
Safin, gets the USO at 20? Ronaldo Best Player in the world at 19
Had mini revivals after horrid injuries, Safin 05 Aus Open, Ronaldo 2002 World Cup, and first few years at Madrid, however injuries took their toll and they both had to retire, slipping from memory (Djokovic and Cristiano?)
Ronaldo is greater in his peak performance though, and the level he played at non-peak
What ROnaldo did at 19 Messi only did at 23 for example, he was an absolute monster, and deserves to be in the greatest ever discussion. He was the piece the 2002 team neededeven though he was lambasted for being selected
Plus the infamous 1998 final.
Some Ronaldo Brilliance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVueW6X7TM0
And the best goal ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE774yQX6uQ
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Messi hasn't done jack for his national side, unlike El Fenomeno.
Wynter
Legend
I know, I can't believe he got World Player of the year in 2010
Forlan hauled Uruguay to the semis with like 8 goals, messi got out in the round of 16?
Somehow messi wins, FIFA's been favouring him for years.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
It's the same with half the Ballon d'Or's Messi got. No consideration given to the limited influence on an already brilliant side as opposed to brilliant individuals carrying their respective sides.
This is going off topic, of course. I had to have my say because some of the analogies are just ridiculous.
PaulFCB
Semi-Pro
As much as people tend to think Ronaldo is some kind of GOAT, I'm sorry to disappoint some of you.
Even if I "call him the REAL ronaldo" I'm only trolling Cristiano fans.
Yeap, Ronaldo the brazilian was great, but really, is this a joke? You're comparing him to Messi and even Cristiano?
Ronaldo in his prime can't compare to an average month for Messi or Cristiano, look at the numbers by simply comparing him to Cristiano at Real ( vs. Ronaldo at Real ). LM10 and CR7 are totally in another class than Nazario, sorry, the guy was top, but World Cup's are something totally minor for today's modern football where the importance is centered around club competitions and where a player makes a name for itself and is paid for what he does there. World Cup's are just 7 games at best played every 4 years and are nowhere close as importance to what they were in Pele's and Maradona's time.
World Cups and Euro's are starting to become just like the Davis Cup, a secondary interest ( even if many state otherwise ) because nobody puts their food on the table by winning that, so WC's are just extra's today, def don't make the difference on who is the best.
Also, let's stop talking about football as the achievements are linked to one single player, it's an 11 men team sport and neither did Pele win it by itself cause he had the best team in history along him at those moments while Maradona without a strong team, didn't stand a chance to win a pitiful European Champions Cup as Madrid easily disposed of his team in the 1st Round, in the CL era, Maradona at Napoli would've made the difference to take Napoli in the Last-16 instead of missing 2nd on goalaverage to Arsenal and Borussia at best, while a player like Maradona would never play for Napoli in a period like this when money talks.
Even if I "call him the REAL ronaldo" I'm only trolling Cristiano fans.
Yeap, Ronaldo the brazilian was great, but really, is this a joke? You're comparing him to Messi and even Cristiano?
Ronaldo in his prime can't compare to an average month for Messi or Cristiano, look at the numbers by simply comparing him to Cristiano at Real ( vs. Ronaldo at Real ). LM10 and CR7 are totally in another class than Nazario, sorry, the guy was top, but World Cup's are something totally minor for today's modern football where the importance is centered around club competitions and where a player makes a name for itself and is paid for what he does there. World Cup's are just 7 games at best played every 4 years and are nowhere close as importance to what they were in Pele's and Maradona's time.
World Cups and Euro's are starting to become just like the Davis Cup, a secondary interest ( even if many state otherwise ) because nobody puts their food on the table by winning that, so WC's are just extra's today, def don't make the difference on who is the best.
Also, let's stop talking about football as the achievements are linked to one single player, it's an 11 men team sport and neither did Pele win it by itself cause he had the best team in history along him at those moments while Maradona without a strong team, didn't stand a chance to win a pitiful European Champions Cup as Madrid easily disposed of his team in the 1st Round, in the CL era, Maradona at Napoli would've made the difference to take Napoli in the Last-16 instead of missing 2nd on goalaverage to Arsenal and Borussia at best, while a player like Maradona would never play for Napoli in a period like this when money talks.
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Wynter
Legend
You do realize the closest Ronaldo ever was to a 'peak' was the late 90's at 19 and 20 years old, the man wasn't even expected to run again let alone play elite football with his injury.
Prior to his knees he scored at a rating of 0.833 goals a game and was better than a field consisting of Zidane, Cantona, Figo, Maldini, Seedorf, Rivaldo, Nedved, Hagi I could go on to ad nauseum at the age of 19
Also factor in Messi and CR7 play in systems meant to give them the greatest amount of chances, catering specifically to letting them score goals,ask Ibrahimovic the Barca gameplan.
And this is statistics, the actual style of Ronaldo's play was amazing, the athleticism and finesse was unparalleled and will almost never be matched. Sure Messi may be a statistical, in an era with only one rival and sub par football compared to 12 years ago. But the way which Ronaldo played, is what made him so amazing and why he's one of the best ever.
Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo don't compare to this. This man was a phenomenon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8bZhNBQktQ
Not to mention the ONLY reason people discount the world cup as of today is because Messi is dreadful for argentina and Ronaldo carries a half decent World Cup Team, if either of them win it, it'll be the most important thing ever to fans. If they don't it's insignificant.
At the age of 19 Messi had just broken into barca's set up, at the age of 19 Ronaldo broke their scoring record and led them to the Europa Cup.
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forzamilan90
Legend
the real one? Cristiano Ronaldo has more goals than this so called greatest striker actually lol....and half his career he was a winger.
edit: saw your other post. Ok. I really think Cristiano and Messi are probably the two best ever attackers, they are shattering the record books (even if La Liga is easier to score in).
forzamilan90
Legend
Cristiano Ronaldo 358 goals at age 29 while playing half his career as a winger. Sky is the limit.
Ronaldo retired with 352 goals despite being a pure striker his entire career.
Wynter
Legend
Games played CR7 554 vs R9 518
International CR7 109 games 42 goals
Ronldo 97 games 62 goals
The role CRonaldo plays has always been essentially a wide striker who cuts in and picks up rebounds.
Cr7: 663 games 400 goals
R9: 605 games 414 goals
forzamilan90
Legend
Bull, Ronaldo was a winger at United, Rooney and Tevez were primary strikers. Dude still got his due. I tell you to me there is no contest, Cristiano is better than Brazilian Ronaldo considering the position he had to work with. Figo played a winger position too, didn't score no where near as much as Cristiano. Prodigious talent.
But lots and lots of people are saying Brazilian Ronaldo is GOAT striker yet these fauk-forwards ala Messi and Ronaldo are about to shatter what's remaining of the record books.
The only big record I don't see them breaking is Pele...and that's cause simply contemporary times don't allow for that kind of goal scoring.
Wynter
Legend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4bzmeVSbsI
Every ronaldo goal, if he wasn't already in the box he was cutting in, acting as a forward to score. Other than the long range pearlers of course
Figo was primarily a playmaker, Ronaldo has always been a goalscorer.
Barcelona, whilst being one of the greatest sides ever assembled, supply more than 80% of their chances to Messi, you're going to thrive with that much of an opportunity t o score, no matter who you are. Also count Ronaldo's 45 free-kicks, R9 barely ever took those.
I suppose at the end of the day, style vs statistics
Ronaldo dominated one of the best defender dominated eras ever. (Puyol, Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Thuram, etc
The fact Pique is considered one of the worlds best tells the story of today's defensive depth.And Ronaldo dominated not by just popping up in a box, but carving his way through defenses with speed and power, back when there were fewer rules to defend by IE people could grab shirts etc;
I admire, Messi and Ronaldo, but if you wanted to look at someone at the best o their abilities? I would hands down Choose R9 everyday of the week
forzamilan90
Legend
The only thing I'll admit is Ronaldo played vs better defenders. Cristiano will finish with over 450+ goals though at least so that will defeat tgat argument
Wynter
Legend
Cristiano will play way more games though, I don't think he'll ever be able to impact a game the way Ronaldo could. As brilliant as he is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tea20qaiYl4
Such an interesting video. Zidane talking about what separates the very good from the best.
I would love to have been around the galacticos line-up, they just seem like such a collection of amazing individuals.
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Vcore89
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, I hope Messi wins the World Cup but that really depends on his team unless he could Maradona his way through the cracks of even the most solid defenders. I don't however see him employing the ''act of god (lower cased)''.:wink:
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
The joke here is your pretence at football knowledge. The Football World Cup is the apogee of a football player's career, just like the Slam tournament is the ultimate for the tennis player. Messi has been dismal at the biggest stage, to say the least.
Pele had 10 of the best players of all time in his national side. This does not detract from his phenomenal performance at 3 World Cups.
Basically, from your post I gathered that you are a young guy with not much knowledge about players before the Champions League era. My guess is you think Messi is a superior goal scorer to Gerd Müller.
The only way Christiano can approach El Phenomeno and Pele is to win a World Cup. Not going to happen with his generation of Portuguese players.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
All you need to watch to compare Ronaldo vs Christiano and Messi is Real Madrid's away leg vs Machester United, where he scored that hat-trick. He was unreal. People quickly forgot that because he ended his career as a bit of a joke.
PaulFCB
Semi-Pro
That's clearly an overstatement. When did it happen? In the 1930's? Did Eto'o not run again after his Bremen injury? He did very well, because of doctors and not because of him. If it wasn't for modern medicine, Ronaldo would've been done, clearly, but that's available for many players.
Not to mention the ignorance when talking about teenage Messi who was troubled by injuries all the time in his early career and that his boom came after those, which are clearly not easy to digest for a kiddo.
Also, there's no doubt Messi was a super player when he was a teenager, but what do you want from him? The team was clearly in a crisis in Rijkaard's last 2 years. Let's remember 2008 with Leo injured at the beginning and slowly coming back, followed by the sacking of Frank and replacement by Pep, by the end of 2008 he was 2nd on the Ballon D'Or list, even if you can clearly say those votes came solely for the last 4 months of the year, which is pretty amazing considering others had all 12 to prove themselves.
I hope you're kidding with these examples of goal scorers...
Sub par football compared to 12 years ago?
That World Cup when Korea, Turkey made it to the semifinals and Senegal was making jokes with France and Sweden and it later proved it was just a team made of average players or 10 years ago Greece winning the Euro? Bayer Leverkusen, Monaco and others in CL finals?
France, Argentina and Portugal top 3 favorites to win the World Cup, all out by the Group Stages, why? Clearly not because USA with John O'Brian, Brian McBride or Jeff Agoos were top class. Guess why.
When you say Messi is dreadful for Argentina it's already clear you don't know what you're saying.
Ronaldo didn't even play in the Champions League till he was like 22 if I'm not mistaking and he only scored 1 goal, against Spartak Moscow, for Inter.
Sorry, but this say's it all about how some people see football. You are just contradicting yourself in two short sentences.
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Goosehead
Legend
the world cup is not where the best players in the world gather, just most of the best teams. the champions league is above the world cup in terms of overall quality of football..going on about who scored what goals in the world cup finals isn't the barometer of brilliance it used to be.
the last time the world cup was the premier event with top players and amazing matches was mexico 86..
the last time the world cup was the premier event with top players and amazing matches was mexico 86..
Gustavo Kuerten
Rookie
Federer is the Lance Armstrong of tennis.
OddJack
G.O.A.T.
No, goonhead, Federer will never go into politics, because he cares more about tennis than anything else.
And, Ballet managers of newyork have look into his moves to get ideas.
So, there is more resemblance to one than the other. Do try and get new ideas even in a stupid thread like this.
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