Roger Federer: Serena Williams may well be best overall tennis player ever

[Aussie Darcy]

How nice of Fed to say this.

Always a shame to see how insecure many people on this forum are. So insecure that they feel the need to say this was for PR.

They fan’t just be happy for each player and instead have to try to lower ones achievements. What sad lives you lead.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Wow amazing in 1 year. The year after serena had her worst year on tour and returned fat, unranked at number 81 in 07. Oh that year haha.Yeah i'm sure those were great wins against an unfit serena. Henin really showed her that year
Too bad she choked against Bartoli of all people in her supposed "best year".

Venus is still around able to play matches. She hasn't gone anywhere.

I don't see henin around .

I didn't realise cheating your way through a match made you tough. Maybe Henin should have done more of it then she might not have retired like mental weakling that she was allowing serena to finally rectify that Slam h2h.(At least serena has the overall h2h which is all that matters)

Awww your tired *sniff *sniff....wanna retire?

Oh please
Mentally tough my A**

Lol ok brother, so is your point that Serena faced all headcases, and not all headcases minus 1?

Quite a "feather in her cap"

 

[r2473]

How nice of Fed to say this.

Always a shame to see how insecure many people on this forum are. So insecure that they feel the need to say this was for PR.

They fan’t just be happy for each player and instead have to try to lower ones achievements. What sad lives you lead.

This post is sexist

 

[Deleted member 756486]

How nice of Fed to say this.

Always a shame to see how insecure many people on this forum are. So insecure that they feel the need to say this was for PR.

They fan’t just be happy for each player and instead have to try to lower ones achievements. What sad lives you lead.

It’s not about lowering Serena's achievements she’s by far the greatest female player of all time but anyone that knows this sport recognizes that players like Federer and Nadal are miles ahead of Serena.

One reason:
BO5.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

How nice of Fed to say this.

Always a shame to see how insecure many people on this forum are. So insecure that they feel the need to say this was for PR.

They fan’t just be happy for each player and instead have to try to lower ones achievements. What sad lives you lead.

The only insecure people are the people in the media who keep pushing to compare male and female athletes.

Female tennis players are fine, but they only have careers because of enforced segregation. Full stop.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

This post is sexist

 

[heftylefty]

Serena the weak era champion. Graf would've cleaned her clock if they played at the same time.

Really?! As great as Graf was she struggled against Seles. So what would happen against a player hitter just as big, if not bigger than Seles. A better mover than Seles with a superior service game? Graf played a pre-prime Serena twice and came away with a split, but I am sure there's an excuse for that.

 

[pame]

All 3 of you have some points. But I agree mostly with @Zhilady.

Regardless, when talking tennis GOAT (if we HAVE to pick one), objectively there are only 2 candidates currently:
Roger Federer or Esther Vergeer. No other.

GOAT = Roger Federer, (if tennis competition is truly OPEN, regardless of age/gender/physical-condition, and all compete TOGETHER.)

GOAT = Esther Vergeer, (if tennis competitions are separated, and relative-achievement is paramount, kudos @Zhilady ). She went unbeaten in 470 matches. Yea, THAT good!

To suggest Serena Williams is to try to be PC (and fail) bc in doing so will have completely disparaged Esther Vergeer. ATP tennis is tennis.. WTA tennis is tennis.., but wheelchair tennis is NOT tennis?

tsktsk

One could also argue that to suggest Esther Vergeer is to try to be even more PC, so that one is not accused of being ableist. Just sayin'

 

[Aussie Darcy]

It’s not about lowering Serena's achievements she’s by far the greatest female player of all time but anyone that knows this sport recognizes that players like Federer and Nadal are miles ahead of Serena.

One reason:
BO5.

If everyone recognizes this then why do you feel the need to ruin every single thread? Can't you just be happy for Serena that Federer said this or do you have to feel the need to pipe in everywhere with "BUT B05".

Reflects on how insecure you are that someone can't even praise Serena without you feeling the need to bring her back down.

The only insecure people are the people in the media who keep pushing to compare male and female athletes.

Female tennis players are fine, but they only have careers because of enforced segregation. Full stop.

Nah, you're definitely the insecure one. You can't even handle a woman getting complimented by a male so you go and bring up enforced segregation (Like really? what's your problem?). What a terribly sad life you lead. Grow up.

 

[Deon Sanders]

Are you sure about that pound for pound claim? Do you think that she'd have been a top 20 player on the ATP?

Serena Williams's highest UTR rating of 13.44 puts her at about #315 in Division 1 Mens College Tennis

I imagine its not even at a level one has to be to have a single ATP ranking point

 

[ChaelAZ]

Stats wise she is the tennis GOAT.
Even Rog knows.

 

[Man of steel]

1) Unfortunately Henin never enjoyed a complete lack of competition that Serena did after 2007. I mean my God has Serena racked up so many free Slams. Who did she beat on that clay court? Sharapova? LMAO
2) When you play 3 tournaments a year no wonder you still have the stamina when you're in your 30s
3) LMAO at *****in at someone for retiriring due to having a chronic elbow injury while being a fan of someone who took a year off after stepping on broken glass LMAO
4) yeah doubles, very taxing, because Venus/Serena have played soooo many doubles tournaments too btw hehe

1)And who did Henin beat at RG from 05-07? So many free RGs playing against those supposed nobodies.

Where was henin post 07...Oh yeah being a mental midget and retiring after susbsequently getting her A** handed to her by serena in miami the following year just winning 2 measly games and losing to Sharapova at AO.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOO

WOOOWWW You really must be a fool

2)Serena never played less than 3 tournaments in a year apart from 2017 which she got pregnant. LMFAOOOOOO.

3)Which lead to a blood cloth in her lungs which lead toa pulmonary embolism which she could have died from and now she's missing part of her lungs.

Wow elbow injury. Sounds like another sharapova shoulder excuse to me. At least Pova still has the cojonez to play after all these years LMAO

4) More than Henin thats for sure. Did she even play doubles? Her matches and records is pretty much forgettable in that field while the sisters are sitting on more titles than Henin could dream of.

 

[Deleted member 756486]

If everyone recognizes this then why do you feel the need to ruin every single thread? Can't you just be happy for Serena that Federer said this or do you have to feel the need to pipe in everywhere with "BUT B05".

Reflects on how insecure you are that someone can't even praise Serena without you feeling the need to bring her back down.

You can always put me on ignore if I ruin every thread for you.

All I’m doing is stating my opinion on this issue like everyone else, I have nothing against Serena on a personal level like some clearly do here. I’m stating my opinion that players like Federer, Nadal, etc. are in a different league to Serena, it’s a stupid comparison to begin with in all honesty and I wish we’d get over it but here we still are.

I’m perfectly secure, don’t know what my opinions on tennis have to do with my insecurity but okay.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Nah, you're definitely the insecure one. You can't even handle a woman getting complimented by a male so you go and bring up enforced segregation (Like really? what's your problem?). What a terribly sad life you lead. Grow up.

Oh please stop with this; it's pathetic.

Roger saying "Serena is a fantastic player" is a compliment and true

Roger saying "Serena is the best player ever male or female" because he doesn't want weeks of negative attention is a joke and has no basis in reality and should be ridiculed

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Oh please stop with this; it's pathetic.

Roger saying "Serena is a fantastic player" is a compliment and true

Roger saying "Serena is the best player ever male or female" because he doesn't want weeks of negative attention is a joke and has no basis in reality and should be ridiculed

The pathetic thing here was you feeling the need to bring up 'enforced segregation' on a thread where Federer was complimenting Serena. Grow up.

 

[Chadillac]

Stats wise she is the tennis GOAT.
Even Rog knows.

How so? She has less grand slams than court and has 17 tue's. One even after winning a french open final

 

[Bobby Jr]

We all know why he said "overall." He said it because...

We all know they wrote "overall" the way they did to seem like it was the end of the answer but, in fact, his answer was more likely a combined answer of the that and the next quote. So his answer looked more like this in reality: "Overall, but we know [Williams] is all the way up there. I’m probably up there with somebody, somehow... ."

When read like this - how he more than likely actually said it - it is far less headline worthy than what it's been touted as.

 

[Bobby Jr]

serena may not be a better player than federer but i think she is arguably mentally tougher than him

Much less so. Her physical talents have her much further ahead of most of her peers than Federer so she has had to truly dig deeper far less often than him in matches in later rounds of the biggest tournaments.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Much less so. Her physical talents have her much further ahead of most of her peers than Federer so she has had to truly dig deeper far less often than him in matches in later rounds of the biggest tournaments.

She also plays on a tour full of literal headcases, so there's that too.

 

[ohiostate124]

Roger the humble pr goat.

 

[Your Hero]

Fed's just being nice, like Nadal was to that stringer. All very educational.

 

[oldmanfan]

One could also argue that to suggest Esther Vergeer is to try to be even more PC, so that one is not accused of being ableist. Just sayin'

I agree with you.

That's why the choice is either Federer (truly OPEN tennis) or Vergeer (truly PC answer). Neither of which is Serena Williams.

 

[tennisaddict]

LOL.. Arrogant erer to really say that he is also in the conversation somehow

"It's not fair to compare, actually," Federer told Gay. "But we know [Williams] is all the way up there. I'm probably up there with somebody, somehow. Maybe there's a group, a best of five—and if you're in that group you should be pleased and happy. Tennis is a funky sport when it comes to that stuff."

 

[pame]

Explain this @Thriller

Must be similar to Brown, Darcis, Stakovsky et al. You're getting on like there are not upsets in tennis, as in every sport.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

PC Trollerer!

 

[pame]

I agree with you.

That's why the choice is either Federer (truly OPEN tennis) or Vergeer (truly PC answer). Neither of which is Serena Williams.

Oh my! Talk about a non sequitur. Carry on smartly; really not worth pursuing that line of argument. And it would help if you at least said "the choice FOR ME is...."

 

[Nadalgaenger]

In fairness, Isner is not exactly your “typical” ATP serve, but I get the point.

I’d like to see videos of Ferrer serving to Serena.

 

[pame]

1) Unfortunately Henin never enjoyed a complete lack of competition that Serena did after 2007. I mean my God has Serena racked up so many free Slams. Who did she beat on that clay court? Sharapova? LMAO
2) When you play 3 tournaments a year no wonder you still have the stamina when you're in your 30s
3) LMAO at *****in at someone for retiriring due to having a chronic elbow injury while being a fan of someone who took a year off after stepping on broken glass LMAO
4) yeah doubles, very taxing, because Venus/Serena have played soooo many doubles tournaments too btw hehe playing like 2 tournaments a year at most

Serena the weak era champion. Graf would've cleaned her clock if they played at the same time.

FTR, Serena stepped on glass in July. In March the next year she was hospitalised for a pulmonary embolism. In your world, that apparently not only constitutes taking a year off for one incident, but is laugh-worthy.

 

[oldmanfan]

LOL.. Arrogant erer to really say that he is also in the conversation somehow

"It's not fair to compare, actually," Federer told Gay. "But we know [Williams] is all the way up there. I'm probably up there with somebody, somehow. Maybe there's a group, a best of five—and if you're in that group you should be pleased and happy. Tennis is a funky sport when it comes to that stuff."

PC Trollerer!

Right?

If he didn't mention Serena Williams, he would trigger WTA fans.
If he self-proclaims GOAThood, he would trigger Nadal/Djokovic/Sampras/Laver/Borg fans.
If he didn't 'include' himself in the GOAT discussion, he would trigger Fedfans.

So.. he said just enough to make EVERYONE happy.

PR'rerer, too smooth..

 

[True Fanerer]

Must be similar to Brown, Darcis, Stakovsky et al. You're getting on like there are not upsets in tennis, as in every sport.

Sure there are upsets in tennis, but no one you mentioned has a club level pop gun serve.

 

[oldmanfan]

Oh my! Talk about a non sequitur. Carry on smartly; really not worth pursuing that line of argument. And it would help if you at least said "the choice FOR ME is...."

'non sequitur'?

Did you read my previous post why the choices are only Federer or Vergeer? (see snippet below):
['Regardless, when talking tennis GOAT (if we HAVE to pick one), objectively there are only 2 candidates currently:
Roger Federer or Esther Vergeer. No other.

GOAT = Roger Federer, (if tennis competition is truly OPEN, regardless of age/gender/physical-condition, and all compete TOGETHER.)

GOAT = Esther Vergeer, (if tennis competitions are separated, and relative-achievement is paramount, kudos @Zhilady ). She went unbeaten in 470 matches. Yea, THAT good!']

So is it really an 'argument' and really a choice only, as you put it, 'FOR ME'?

Imagine:
If tennis competitions were full fields of men AND women together (and anyone good enough to enter), who would you say is GOAT?

or

If tennis competition were separated (as currently), and greatness is based on relative-achievements against their respective fields, who would be greater than Vergeer (470 matches unbeaten)?

 

[big ted]

isn't it common sense when Federer says Serena might be the best player ever he means based on her career/accomplishments and not on her actual playing? literally everybody knows most ATP players can beat her including her.

 

[Sentinel]

And she doesn't play false bromance games with the person she loses to in order to stroke her ego

You seem to be very sore that he did not name Nadal as the greatest.

 

[merwy]

As someone who has played and watched some boxing I cringe every time someone uses the pound for pound argument. Williams is taller and heavier than Schwartzman but would lose to him in a match. Don't say pound for pound if you actually mean something else.

 

[TMF]

It’s funny how the best Tennis player of all time would win exactly 0 titles on the ATP tour.

That's like saying the best WNBA player is best basketball player without ever playing in the NBA.

Serena is only relevant to the WTA, and she's in goat discussion with Graf, Navratilova, Chris and Court.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I think he said overall because he sincerely believes that pound for pound she is the best there has ever been, just like a middleweight can be considered better than a heavyweight even though he would obviously get 'clobbered' 1:1.

See, we can all guess why he said "overall" and claim it as "the truth".

Fed has seen how the media reacted to Djokovic not toeing the PC line couple of years back and knows better than to step into this discussion, especially now when he's having a great second wind. It's not even about PR; it's a complete lose lose proposition to get into this argument and he won't. Even last year, he got talking about the differences between men's and women's tennis after a Hopman Cup and then abruptly concluded his answer realising it was getting into dangerous territory.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Just read his exact words and it's typical Fed. Calls her one of the greatest - if not the greatest - tennis players and clarifies he means overall and also puts himself in a group of maybe five players or so who belong there. He has not said categorically that she is greater than him or he greater than her. Playing it safe, the FedEx way.

 

[Fedforever]

IMO there is just no intellectually consistent argument that makes Serena #1.

If you consider only majors, it has to be Court.

If you consider other factors, Graf blows her away, and Evert and Navratilova have strong cases, especially Evert because of the AO and WTT/RG issues.

I actually think the fact that Serena's best stats came post-30 hurt her overall. 196 weeks at #1 after age 31? Give me a break.

Instinctively I feel that Graf was a better player but probably I just like her game more - I don't have strong feelings about it and would never bother getting into an argument about it.

 

[Matterhorn]

Pre-Fed/Nadal,Sampras was named the greatest player of all time by a tennis magazine ahead of Graf (22 slams),Evert,Navratilova (18 slams each) why would things change now? They rated him ahead even with an 8 slam differential,why on earth would things change now?

Because Sampras is American and Serena is American. If Serena isn't and/or Federer is these frivolous GOAT debates between them never happen, as it never did between Sampras and Graf, and never does between Lebron and Diana Taurasi and Tiger and Annika Sörenstam.

"It's not fair to compare, actually," [Federer] says. Fin.

 

[Fedforever]

Just read his exact words and it's typical Fed. Calls her one of the greatest - if not the greatest - tennis players and clarifies he means overall and also puts himself in a group of maybe five players or so who belong there. He has not said categorically that she is greater than him or he greater than her. Playing it safe, the FedEx way.

Whilst I agree in general, I think this is one instance where he can't really be blamed for that. He would get an enormous amount of flak for saying himself and it would be even more dishonest if he were to pick another male player since it's highly unlikely that he actually regards anyone as being his superior.

 

[AiRFederer]

If you expected Fed to say otherwise,you have McEnroe for that. Lol. Fed isnt going to ruin his image for some useless discussion.

 

[Bender]

He should have side-stepped. And stated the obvious - female sports are very different for physical, mental , and emotional reasons.

Lost some respect for him. Sad virtue signaling.

He's a professional athlete. He doesn't have the mental gymnastics skills that we have as internet poasters.

 

[Bender]

It’s not about lowering Serena's achievements she’s by far the greatest female player of all time but anyone that knows this sport recognizes that players like Federer and Nadal are miles ahead of Serena.

One reason:
BO5.

ned would be a servebot of sorts on the WTA, can you imagine?

 

[Thriller]

We all know they wrote "overall" the way they did to seem like it was the end of the answer but, in fact, his answer was more likely a combined answer of the that and the next quote. So his answer looked more like this in reality: "Overall, but we know [Williams] is all the way up there. I’m probably up there with somebody, somehow... ."

When read like this - how he more than likely actually said it - it is far less headline worthy than what it's been touted as.

Actually, no. It is about her record:

I have to ask: Did Federer, considered by some to be the tennis GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), just suggest Serena was the GOAT? Did he mean GOAT on the women's side -- or overall?

"Overall," Federer clarifies. He ticks off the staggering stats of players like Williams and Steffi Graf, which eclipse those of anyone in men's tennis, especially when one factors in all of Serena's doubles titles.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/culture/t...s-serena-williams-greatest-tennis-player-ever


Great knows greatest when he sees it. Scrubs know nothing.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Fed has seen how the media reacted to Djokovic not toeing the PC line couple of years back and knows better than to step into this discussion, especially now when he's having a great second wind. It's not even about PR; it's a complete lose lose proposition to get into this argument and he won't. Even last year, he got talking about the differences between men's and women's tennis after a Hopman Cup and then abruptly concluded his answer realising it was getting into dangerous territory.

Link?

 

[Northern]

Fed's PR team working overtime. Extolling Serena allows him to look classy while avoiding relativizing his superiority, since everybody knows that women's tennis is not par with men's tennis.

They can put a check mark under the "Appeal women" "Appeal ethnic minorities" and "Appeal motherhood devotees" boxes. Well done.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Whilst I agree in general, I think this is one instance where he can't really be blamed for that. He would get an enormous amount of flak for saying himself and it would be even more dishonest if he were to pick another male player since it's highly unlikely that he actually regards anyone as being his superior.

Not blaming him at all, just saying he is playing safe and nothing to see here. Because a certain constituency is obviously overjoyed with his words and will run with it.

 

[Fedforever]

Why do I suspect the people who are criticising Fed here are exactly the same people who would be starting a dozen threads with titles like "Fed is an arrogant ba**ard" if he'd placed himself at the top of the list?

 

[Bobby Jr]

Actually, no. It is about her record:

I have to ask: Did Federer, considered by some to be the tennis GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), just suggest Serena was the GOAT? Did he mean GOAT on the women's side -- or overall?

Actually, yes. I read his whole quote. You're citing a website which is doing a quick report on it and have added in other commentary which isn't attributed to him, nor does it go anywhere near supporting the idea he ended his answer - as suggested - without adding the extra, quoted, part I mentioned.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Link?

Unable to post the link but the tennis now article "Federer embraces the differences between ATP and WTA" has the gist of what he said.