Roger Federer: Serena Williams may well be best overall tennis player ever

Mainad said:
Well, she is on 23 Slams and Roger is trailing with a mere 20! ;)
Click to expand...
True but this has also been the case for a long time. Serena was ahead of Rog for a long time but a direct slam count to slam count comparison was never made because they play in different tours. From somewhere has been conjured the argument that merely mentioning that the tours cannot be compared is sexist. There are many inconsistencies in the Serena camp's arguments. It's not at all clear that she's greater than Court or Navratilova. Nor even Graf. I agree with those who say this is about Muricans trying to glorify their man and since they don't have a man, a woman will do.
 
k

There's a good debate as to whether Serena is even the greatest women's player ffs

But anyway, best not to compare.
 
Steve0904 said:
Tennis isn't boxing. There's no such thing as pound for pound in tennis. If there was, guys like Schwartzman wouldn't come close to beating guys like Karlovic or Isner.

Don't overcomplicate this. It's an exercise in PR.

If he really wanted to he could've said "I'll triple bagel Serena in a competitive match, come @ me Serena" and that would be the truth (or very close to it). But he's not stupid enough to say that.
Click to expand...

RF-18 said:
I only made a comment on the ''overall'' thing.

I don't want to play down Serenas tennis quality cause it is huge but the truth needs to be said when we Once again have a reporter trying to bait a competition between men and woman. This is pretty much deja vu from the mcenroe interview, only difference is the answer was different. He also said something in the lines of this but the reporter didn't want to stop there, she had to ask if he meant amongst the men also. These are the people that creates this mess. Just stick to woman vs woman and men vs men, it is not harder than that.
Click to expand...

This, or rather, these.
Nothing more need be said really
 
NoleFam said:
So basically Federer just blew up this whole absolute argument that many dudes on this site like to make, mostly his fans, and just flat out said that S. Williams could be considered the greatest. So now everyone thinks it must be PR, he doesn't really mean it and go back to their absolute arguments. :D Federer is simply smarter than you and he can actually separate the two without feeling like he's slighted in the least because at the end of the day he knows he would destroy Serena Williams on a tennis court. He still can separate what she achieved, according to her gender, and place that in perspective and how amazing it is in itself. Federer's fans could learn a lot from him.
Click to expand...
I will say this - Fed is classy af and I rarely get tired of listening to him.
 
pame said:
FTR, Serena stepped on glass in July. In March the next year she was hospitalised for a pulmonary embolism. In your world, that apparently not only constitutes taking a year off for one incident, but is laugh-worthy.
Click to expand...
I find taking an extended break due to stepping on broken glass pretty funny, yes.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Again, that's fine if you don't think the majors are the end all be all.

But you can't argue on one side that Court's 24 are inflated, while also arguing that Serena's 23 are way better than Evert's 18 (who was basically playing 3 majors a year and voluntarily skipped 3 RGs in her peak years for money reasons) or Graf's 22 (who retired just after turning 30 and smokes Serena in most other stats).

Also, pls don't denigrate the great Mrs. Court.
Click to expand...
Actually I can become neither Evert nor Graf has the bulk of their majors coming at a single event that was barely considered a slam in their era. Both of them had to contend with at least one or two major threats during their prime at every major. So all of them are superior to Court in that respect. Serena Trumps Evert easily in that she’s won 5 more majors under those same circumstances.

The ONLY real argument is who is the GOAT between Serena and Graf. I’m not sure why you think age is particularly relevant. If anything, Serena’s longevity and the fact that she was able to stay competitive and win majors at a much older age than anyone else would seem to give her an edge in GOAT discussion. But for me, age isn’t much of a factor so I don’t count it. Serena has the edge in majors, Graf has the edge in overall titles. Serena has more match wins, Graf has a higher winning percentage. Serena has a better record in grand slam finals, Graf has been in more grand slam finals. Serena won 4 Olympic Gold medals, Graf won the Calander Golden Slam. Graf edges out Serena for total weeks ranked #1, while Serena has the distinction of being number one in both singles and doubles and winning 13 doubles grand slams. It’s splitting hairs, but I wouldn’t say that either of them have a solid claim over the other based on numbers alone. They are the two greatest players, and both of them eclipse Court in my opinion.
 
paranoidandroid said:
Interviewer trying to bait Federer into controversy but Federer and his PR team are too smart for that. :cool:

There’s no way this is Federer's true opinion, his true opinion would’ve been slammed by the media which is wrong but that’s how identity politics is nowadays..
Click to expand...

So if he says he is the greatest of all time....Federer is arrogant.

If he says someone else is the greatest of all time...Federer is playing identity politics.

Either way he gets criticized.
 
"Overall".

* The journey rising the top
* Being the best in your field
* The impact you disseminate across the globe and sport
* Your skill and ability

in the WTA there really is only one candidate for this. Though Graff comes close when taking into account history.

The ATP has the two you-know-whos.

Federer being kind.

End.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Again, that's fine if you don't think the majors are the end all be all.

But you can't argue on one side that Court's 24 are inflated, while also arguing that Serena's 23 are way better than Evert's 18 (who was basically playing 3 majors a year and voluntarily skipped 3 RGs in her peak years for money reasons) or Graf's 22 (who retired just after turning 30 and smokes Serena in most other stats).

Also, pls don't denigrate the great Mrs. Court.
Click to expand...
Actually I can because neither Evert nor Graf has the bulk of their majors coming at a single event that was barely considered a slam in their era. Both of them had to contend with at least one or two major threats during their prime at every major. So all of them are superior to Court in that respect. Serena Trumps Evert easily in that she’s won 5 more majors under those same circumstances.

The ONLY real argument is who is the GOAT between Serena and Graf. I’m not sure why you think age is particularly relevant. If anything, Serena’s longevity and the fact that she was able to stay competitive and win majors at a much older age than anyone else would seem to give her an edge in GOAT discussion. But for me, age isn’t much of a factor so I don’t count it. Serena has the edge in majors, Graf has the edge in overall titles. Serena has more match wins, Graf has a higher winning percentage. Serena has a better record in grand slam finals, Graf has been in more grand slam finals. Serena won 4 Olympic Gold medals, Graf won the Calander Golden Slam. Graf edges out Serena for total weeks ranked #1, while Serena has the distinction of being number one in both singles and doubles and winning 13 doubles grand slams. It’s splitting hairs, but I wouldn’t say that either of them have a solid claim over the other based on numbers alone. Most tennis pros now seem to rate Serena as the GOAT though.
 
Last edited:
Aussie Darcy said:
Exactly. If only people could just be happy for them both instead of feeling the need to tear one down.
Click to expand...
At the same time, there's too much of an agenda by her fans and other groups who keep trying to prop her up as the best tennis player ever. Most of these same people aren't even tennis fans for the most part.
 
captainbryce said:
Actually I can become neither Evert nor Graf has the bulk of their majors coming at a single event that was barely considered a slam in their era. Both of them had to contend with at least one or two major threats during their prime at every major. So all of them are superior to Court in that respect. Serena Trumps Evert easily in that she’s won 5 more majors under those same circumstances.

The ONLY real argument is who is the GOAT between Serena and Graf. I’m not sure why you think age is particularly relevant. If anything, Serena’s longevity and the fact that she was able to stay competitive and win majors at a much older age than anyone else would seem to give her an edge in GOAT discussion. But for me, age isn’t much of a factor so I don’t count it. Serena has the edge in majors, Graf has the edge in overall titles. Serena has more match wins, Graf has a higher winning percentage. Serena has a better record in grand slam finals, Graf has been in more grand slam finals. Serena won 4 Olympic Gold medals, Graf won the Calander Golden Slam. Graf edges out Serena for total weeks ranked #1, while Serena has the distinction of being number one in both singles and doubles and winning 13 doubles grand slams. It’s splitting hairs, but I wouldn’t say that either of them have a solid claim over the other based on numbers alone. Most tennis pros now seem to rate Serena as the GOAT though.
Click to expand...

You understand that you're playing both sides of the fence right? It's nonsenical.

On the one hand you're penalizing Court for winning a bunch of AOs with weak draws, yet on the other hand you're penalizing Evert for not playing the AO (because nobody really cared much about it at the time -- see your Court criticism) and for missing 3 RGs in her absolute prime to make more money with WTT (something that would never, EVER, happen today).

Think about that for a second. You can't have it both ways. As for Evert, even if she only wins 2 of the 3 RGs she missed, she'd have 20 majors in an era where she basically only played 3 majors. Guys like Borg and Connors should get the benefit of that analysis too.

Regarding Serena, Graf's resume outside the majors simply blows Serena's away. The points you make in favor of Serena are weak. Doubles? Nobody cares about that. Serena only played doubles because her sister was a top pro and doubles is a weak event for the top singles players anyway. I mean, my God, Nadal has an Olympic gold medal in doubles.

The coup de grace for Graf is her retirement age. At every single age along the way she simply crushes Serena, and it's not particularly close. Graf chose to retire at 30 and move on to other things such as having a family, and she did so on the heels of an RG win and a W final.

Serena has hung on in an extraordinarily weak era to vulture titles, which btw Federer and Nadal are also doing on the men's side, which is why I give them less credit for their longevity. Her performance at her age is such an outlier, even as compared to Navratilova, that it should be looked at with skepticism. There is not a single player in the 2010s you can point to who would be considered anywhere CLOSE to an all-time great. Heck, I can't think of a single player in the 2010s who would even be Clijsters or Mandlikova or Sanchez Vicario level, can you?

If you can honestly sit there with a straight face and say that Graf wouldn't be eating up the Halep/Woz/Svitolina etc field, Idk what to tell you. I, for one, am not going to penalize Graf because she made the decision to retire at 30, still near the top of the game and with by far the best resume in tennis (and still the best resume) to have a family. Serena could beat Halep and Woz 10 more times in major finals in her late 30s and that wouldn't move the needle for me one bit. Graf was a more dominant and consistent champion.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
Exactly. If only people could just be happy for them both instead of feeling the need to tear one down.
Click to expand...
I mean, I'm happy for woman tennis players like I'm happy for little league baseball players. They're cute and some try really hard and are good for that level.
 
tqiYUtu.jpg
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Agree with that, but there is simply no reason to compare the top men's players to the top women. It doesn't make any sense. Serena should be compared to the women and fed to the men.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I don't get what is so discriminatory about saying it is different. It IS different. Different sexes, different tours, even different number of sets at the slams. There is no reason to compare. One thing, out of sensitivity, the media could also start calling Fed the greatest male tennis player instead of the greatest tennis player. Since the tours are separate, it doesn't make sense to use the gender neutral only for Fed and not for Serena.
 
Mainad said:
Well, she is on 23 Slams and Roger is trailing with a mere 20! ;)
Click to expand...
Yes, but if he had played WTA he would have 68 slams. Here's an idea for Fed fans. Start a crowdfunding campaign to give Federer the Renee Richards treatment. Then he will be GOAT definitely.
 
tennis_pro said:
I find taking an extended break due to stepping on broken glass pretty funny, yes.
Click to expand...
Not as funny as a knee injury sustained when putting the twins in the bathtub, but it's up there, yes. The mere notion Fed would be the one to put the twins in the tub... hilarious.
 
Omega_7000 said:
So if he says he is the greatest of all time....Federer is arrogant.

If he says someone else is the greatest of all time...Federer is playing identity politics.

Either way he gets criticized.
Click to expand...
That's because it's not for Fed to decide who is the GOAT. Being quiet seems the reasonable course of action. This Serena thing is just a PR stunt to make more money on endorsements.
 
Northern said:
Not as funny as a knee injury sustained when putting the twins in the bathtub, but it's up there, yes. The mere notion Fed would be the one to put the twins in the tub... hilarious.
Click to expand...
Still not as funny as Federer losing maybe 2 points in a match against all-time-male-or-female-GOAT Serena if he played her in a serious match. Both doubles faults out of pity too.
 
Krish872007 said:
Serena's reply:

https://twitter.com/search?q=federer&src=typd&lang=en

[After hearing the GOAT comment] "I think we can say that about both of us, respectively. He's done amazing things in his career - I have the utmost respect for him. He's a wonderful athlete, a great guy. I love what he's doing [with his foundation] in Africa too. That was really impressive to me."
Click to expand...

How easy it is for the pros to respect each other and how much harder for the stans, lol!
 
Northern said:
Federer and pretty much any Top 100. Maybe not Berdych though.
Click to expand...

Someone posted in this thread that serena would be ranked #315 in ncaa mens based on utr. If she were playing these guys, her rating would fall.

Anyonw who thinks serena could even beat the #5000 male has never picked up a racket.
 
Mainad said:
Well, she is on 23 Slams and Roger is trailing with a mere 20! ;)
Click to expand...
Roger had the other big 3 to deal with in their prime.
Serena had to only deal with her sister for 10 years 98-2008 (prime Venus) and those two women from Belgium.
Perhaps SW's level was just that far above the field or she just had a weak field once Henin & Clijsters retired.

Dolgopolov85 said:
Exactly, I don't get what is so discriminatory about saying it is different. It IS different. Different sexes, different tours, even different number of sets at the slams. There is no reason to compare. One thing, out of sensitivity, the media could also start calling Fed the greatest male tennis player instead of the greatest tennis player. Since the tours are separate, it doesn't make sense to use the gender neutral only for Fed and not for Serena.
Click to expand...
can't stand the gender neutral or slicing and dicing stats.

.
 
Thriller said:
“[Williams’s career] has been fascinating to watch. She had a totally different upbringing – I came up through Switzerland with the federation, she did it with her dad and her sister,” says Federer in the interview. “It’s an amazing story unto itself – and then she became one of the greatest, if not the greatest tennis player of all time.”

Federer is then asked to clarify if he means Williams is the best female player of all time or the best overall. “Overall,” he says.


Discuss. :)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...r-serena-williams-greatest-ever-tennis-player
Click to expand...
I don't think it's unreasonable to think she's the greatest player, relatively speaking of both sexes.

I am not certain exactly what Federer means by overall. If it means being solid in overall skills everywhere I would say no. However she doesn't have any huge weaknesses anywhere and she had big weapons in arguably the greatest women's serve of all time.

Perhaps Federer is patting himself on the back a bit also because most today think of him when we think of the greatest overall player. I do think Federer, relatively speaking is more solid in more areas than Serena Williams.

Navratilova was a very solid player overall also on the women's side as was Justine Henin. I'm not saying either were superior players to Serena Williams but you could argue they were more solid in more areas. I spoke to a top tennis expert recently and he was of the opinion that Serena's volley is a bit of a vulnerability. I'm not sure of that considering her great doubles record but he felt it was a little bit of a weakness.
 
Chadillac said:
Someone posted in this thread that serena would be ranked #315 in ncaa mens based on utr. If she were playing these guys, her rating would fall.

Anyonw who thinks serena could even beat the #5000 male has never picked up a racket.
Click to expand...
Chris Evert said she couldn't even beat her own brother in tennis. I think there are a lot of college players who could beat Serena. My friend's son almost qualified for this year's US Open. He's a teen and he could crush Serena imo.
 
Chadillac said:
Someone posted in this thread that serena would be ranked #315 in ncaa mens based on utr. If she were playing these guys, her rating would fall.

Anyonw who thinks serena could even beat the #5000 male has never picked up a racket.
Click to expand...
That is an exaggeration. She is not that bad.
 
Northern said:
That is an exaggeration. She is not that bad.
Click to expand...

Male college players are very good. Better than wta players.

There is just a huge difference between women and mens tennis. They cant even use the same balls as the men.
 
Watching how Sharapova crushed Nadal's balls, and how Serena crushed Sharapova, and how Nadal crushed Federer, it is quite clear that Serena would crush Federer.





































Unless you put Mirka as a cushion between them.
 
sureshs said:
Watching how Sharapova crushed Nadal's balls, and how Serena crushed Sharapova, and how Nadal crushed Federer, it is quite clear that Serena would crush Federer.

Unless you put Mirka as a cushion between them.
Click to expand...

Match play and hitting are very different things, how many wta players could out ralley Karlovic? How many wta players could beat karlovic?
 
sureshs said:
^^^ You seriously think people believe that Serena would beat Federer? LOL. Grow up man this is an Internet forum.
Click to expand...

No, but she would play him close, hold serve a few times and other nonsense we have heard.

Did you see her acing djokovic? Or read the comments after? :D
 
Chadillac said:
No, but she would play him close, hold serve a few times and other nonsense we have heard.
Click to expand...
:D.. No top 50 male player would have any trouble with Serena's serve. The speeds she hits at on her second serve in particular must be considered in light of the comparatively lower spin she (and most females) put on their serves. In fact, David Ferrer's second serve would be more trouble for the entire WTA than Serena's.

It would take a few games for a top male player to get used to her serve. From then it would be hard for her to hold serve at all.
 
captainbryce said:
Actually I can become neither Evert nor Graf has the bulk of their majors coming at a single event that was barely considered a slam in their era. Both of them had to contend with at least one or two major threats during their prime at every major. So all of them are superior to Court in that respect. Serena Trumps Evert easily in that she’s won 5 more majors under those same circumstances.

The ONLY real argument is who is the GOAT between Serena and Graf. I’m not sure why you think age is particularly relevant. If anything, Serena’s longevity and the fact that she was able to stay competitive and win majors at a much older age than anyone else would seem to give her an edge in GOAT discussion. But for me, age isn’t much of a factor so I don’t count it. Serena has the edge in majors, Graf has the edge in overall titles. Serena has more match wins, Graf has a higher winning percentage. Serena has a better record in grand slam finals, Graf has been in more grand slam finals. Serena won 4 Olympic Gold medals, Graf won the Calander Golden Slam. Graf edges out Serena for total weeks ranked #1, while Serena has the distinction of being number one in both singles and doubles and winning 13 doubles grand slams. It’s splitting hairs, but I wouldn’t say that either of them have a solid claim over the other based on numbers alone. They are the two greatest players, and both of them eclipse Court in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Good analysis. One factor left out though is the relative depth of the WTA in Graf's era versus in Serena's era spanning career.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

pirateofthecarribean
Can Serena Williams be as great as Roger Federer?
Replies
46
Views
2K
G A S
G A S
S
America Now Thinks Serena Williams Is The Greatest Tennis Player Ever
2 3
Replies
117
Views
5K
TMF
T
S
Serena Williams comforted Sheryl Sandburg after husband's death
Replies
4
Views
504
tennisaddict
tennisaddict
Garhi Shot First
Long Serena Interview in Fader
Replies
24
Views
1K
PDJ
PDJ
A
Novak Djokovic and Serena Williams are the greatest players ever - Bollettieri
Replies
48
Views
3K
Enceladus
Enceladus
Back
Top