Roger Federer Still Greater Than Rafael Nadal; Andre Agassi’s Claim Premature

[cronus]

Roger Federer Still Greater Than Rafael Nadal; Andre Agassi’s Claim Premature

Former world's no.1 and multiple Grand Slam winner Andre Agassi recently dropped a bomb during a recent interview with Singaporean newspaper Strait Times by saying Rafael Nadal has already dethroned Roger Federer as the greatest tennis player of all time.

Agassi, who is without a doubt among the greatest netter to ever play the game, had been staying off from this particular conversation until that day when he finally picked his choice between the Mallorcan Bull and the Swiss Master.

"I'd put Nadal number one, Federer number two. Federer separated himself from the field for four years. He separated himself from Roddick and Hewitt. Nadal had to deal with Federer, Djokovic, Murray in the golden age of tennis. He has done what he has done and he's not done yet," Agassi said in the interview, via Tennis Tonic.

"He has won multiple majors, every single one more than once except the Australian Open - and give him another year on that. It's just remarkable to me what he has done, and he has done it all during Federer's prime."

The 27-year old Nadal recently won the Mutua Madrid Master, upping his Masters 1000 tally to a record-setting 27th. He already captured multiple titles in each Grand Slam event - except the Australian Open - and became the only second male player to win a career golden slam by adding an Olympic Gold medal to his haul of majors titles.

However, according to Sportskeeda writer Adnan Akhtar, Nadal has still some gap to cover for him to formally dethrone Federer as the greatest tennis player to ever play the game.

One reason Federer still holds the title up to now is his achievement as the only player to hold the no.1 spot in the world ranking for 230 consecutive weeks (302 weeks overall), and of course, being the holder of 17 Grand Slam titles.

Indeed, Nadal is at the prime of his career and still has a lot of opportunity to add more Grand Slam titles. Then again, Agassi's claim that Nadal has already overtaken Federer is premature. For tennis pundits, nobody is going to overtake Federer's throne unless he surpassed the Grand Slam haul of the other.

Until Nadal wins more major crowns than Federer, the Swiss Master is the greatest player of all time.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/552158/20140512/roger-federer-news-tennis-rumors.htm#.U3GaRPmSxUM​

 

[Sentinel]

Zagor could have fixed this Agassi character whoever he is.

Actually, even the good poaster TMF can do the job.

 

[monfed]

Zagor could have fixed this Agassi character whoever he is.

Actually, even the good poaster TMF can do the job.

Zagor's sorely missed but we still have TMF luckily.

 

[bullfan]

Shocking considering your Nadal obsession today!

 

[adil1972]

will you consider nadal the GOAT if he won 17+ slams but only 200 weeks or less as no. 1

i will becuase its the slams which count

 

[cronus]

will you consider nadal the GOAT if he won 17+ slams but only 200 weeks or less as no. 1

i will becuase its the slams which count

On paper he could then be one of the greatest if he claims 18 or 19 slams.

personally i feel he cannot be greater than federer ever for so many reasons, some of them include that it is quite known that roger is in a different planet altogether in terms of sheer talent, for me talent is the most important factor and then comes execution. Both **** and roger have executed well but while roger had to deal with a much younger Djoker,**** and murray **** had roger who was 5 years older and was already 28 when he defeated him a 5 set marathon at Wimbledon.

**** enjoyed the same field that roger has already dominated, this was a big advantage for **** because since roger has already taken care of the entire field **** just had to take care of roger who was 5 years older than him, roger started his GS winning career very late compared to many other players, also Djoker was no where close to his form what he exhibits these days.

When people say roger is lucky they simply forget **** was super lucky that his only threat he had to deal with when he was peaking was a 5 years older roger who was already 28.

Also in-terms of consistency and not missing out slams, overall fair play,consecutive final and semifinal record, ability to defend titles in different surfaces,playing the one handed back hand like a man and not using two hands like a girl(personally i feel men should use one hand for both forehand and back hand, two handed back hand for girls because physically they are weaker), play an all round attacking game, so many things make roger the greatest ever and **** i am afraid does not have many of these qualities to be called a great except for mental strength and the ability sit inside the head against roger.

 

[helloworld]

On paper he could then be one of the greatest if he claims 18 or 19 slams.

personally i feel he cannot be greater than federer ever for so many reasons, some of them include that it is quite known that roger is in a different planet altogether in terms of sheer talent, for me talent is the most important factor and then comes execution. Both **** and roger have executed well but while roger had to deal with a much younger Djoker,**** and murray **** had roger who was 5 years older and was already 28 when he defeated him a 5 set marathon at Wimbledon.

**** enjoyed the same field that roger has already dominated, this was a big advantage for **** because since roger has already taken care of the entire field **** just had to take care of roger who was 5 years older than him, roger started his GS winning career very late compared to many other players, also Djoker was no where close to his form what he exhibits these days.

When people say roger is lucky they simply forget **** was super lucky that his only threat he had to deal with when he was peaking was a 5 years older roger who was already 28.

Also in-terms of consistency and not missing out slams, overall fair play,consecutive final and semifinal record, ability to defend titles in different surfaces,playing the one handed back hand like a man and not using two hands like a girl(personally i feel men should use one hand for both forehand and back hand, two handed back hand for girls because physically they are weaker), play an all round attacking game, so many things make roger the greatest ever and **** i am afraid does not have many of these qualities to be called a great except for mental strength and the ability sit inside the head against roger.

The thought process of this poster cannot be over 3 years of age. They should allow poster over 16 years old to enter the forum only to avoid this kind of reply..

 

[cronus]

The thought process of this poster cannot be over 3 years of age. They should allow poster over 16 years old to enter the forum only to avoid this kind of reply..

We saw the match and Kei started the so called injury after Nadal fought back in the 2nd set. I'm not saying he overreacted, but if Nadal didn't fight back, I doubt Kei would pull out this injury issue.


There's nothing to expect. Federer is done.


Nadal just proved yet again he is the greatest warrior of this era by far.

If this are the kind of meaningful matured replies an old men like you post then i would rather stick to being 3 years old.

btw i just quickly read through some of your posts and the thought process i must say is jedi like lol

 

[TMF]

will you consider nadal the GOAT if he won 17+ slams but only 200 weeks or less as no. 1

i will becuase its the slams which count

No. Saying 17+ means you assumed that Roger is not winning slam anymore.

200 is still a lot lower than 302.

 

[NADALRECORD]

Andre Agassi: "Who the F is Adnan Akhtar?"

 

[Chico]

How can anyone in their right mind claim Nadal is greater than Fed is beyond me.

 

[cronus]

Andre Agassi: "Who the F is Adnan Akhtar?"

more apt caption would be.

Andre Agassi: "where the F is my cocaine?"

 

[NADALRECORD]

How can anyone in their right mind claim Nadal is greater than Fed is beyond me.

Actually the folks here at Talk Tennis have frequently requested that Andre Agassi become a full-time commentator. No other tennis analyzer has been given more love at Talk Tennis than Agassi. Agassi's tennis knowledge is rated higher than John McEnroe. John McEnroe was downgraded when he said (more than once) that Nadal has the best volleys in the top 10. We'll see if Agassi is now conveniently downgraded

 

[Antonio Puente]

If, with Nadal at 12-13 slams, a high number of people are already questioning whether Fed is the GOAT or not, do you think anyone not a Fed fan will consider Fed the GOAT if Nadal is sitting at 17 slams? The math is pretty simple: if you have the most slams, the most masters and have defeated the guy who was the GOAT 23 out of 33 times, you're the GOAT. In fact, if Nadal is sitting at 15 slams, Fed as the GOAT will probably no longer, at that point, be a majority opinion. If, at this stage, Fed still does hold that title, his hold on that title is tenuous at best.

 

[cronus]

If, with Nadal at 12-13 slams, a high number of people are already questioning whether Fed is the GOAT or not, do you think anyone not a Fed fan will consider Fed the GOAT if Nadal is sitting at 17 slams? The math is pretty simple: if you have the most slams, the most masters and have defeated the guy who was the GOAT 23 out of 33 times, you're the GOAT. In fact, if Nadal is sitting at 15 slams, Fed as the GOAT will probably no longer, at that point, be a majority opinion. If, at this stage, Fed still does hold that title, his hold on that title is tenuous at best.

By your logic too many people will be ahead of **** in the race for goat contenders within the next couple of years.

Also your post majorly plays the H2H card,typical **** fan reasoning and always quoting the usual "**** has better H2H so he is greater even with 2 slams" lol

Roger has a plethora of records ahead of ****, **** played the same field and now at 28 is consistently losing to journeymen in many tournaments specially in the greatest of all(Wimbledon). He can never be a goat contender, plain and simple.

 

[sbengte]

Actually the folks here at Talk Tennis have frequently requested that Andre Agassi become a full-time commentator. No other tennis analyzer has been given more love at Talk Tennis than Agassi. Agassi's tennis knowledge is rated higher than John McEnroe. John McEnroe was downgraded when he said (more than once) that Nadal has the best volleys in the top 10. We'll see if Agassi is now conveniently downgraded

I feel you would do much better as a tennis commentator than a scatterbrain like Agassi. Your poasts are so intelligent and analytical , especially where Nadal is concerned. I would love to watch a Nadal match with your commentary.

 

[Antonio Puente]

He can never be a goat contender, plain and simple.

Well, at least you're being reasonable.

 

[cronus]

questioning whether Fed is the GOAT or not

Fed as the GOAT will probably no longer

Fed still does hold that title.

He can never be a goat contender, plain and simple.

Well, at least you're being reasonable.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[furryballs]

I feel you would do much better as a tennis commentator than a scatterbrain like Agassi. Your poasts are so intelligent and analytical , especially where Nadal is concerned. I would love to watch a Nadal match with your commentary.

aggassi is now a confirmed twit

 

[furryballs]

more apt caption would be.

Andre Agassi: "where the F is my cocaine?"

i thought he was taller than that

 

[SublimeTennis]

Agassi's a __________, always has been, he's conned some, but I know guys like this.

What an insult, first he says "Federer is in a higher level than Sampras", wish he would keep his mouth closed as some believe him.

I wish people once and for all would remember what GOAT actually means, it means Greatest Of ALL TIME, not just the slow court era we are in.

For all of history, Tennis has been fast court. Even the FO was faster in the 90's than Wimbledon is today. So of course Nadal is going to excel. Nothing against Nadal, I love the guy, but put him any other time in history and you'd never hear of him, he's a slow court master.

Federer on the other hand has done great in the last 14 years since they've slowed the courts down, and clearly would be even better on fast courts. Put them in the 90's competing and it wouldn't even be close.

Even today, look at Federer's win over Djokovich on the fastest court in Tennis a few months ago, it wasn't even close.

Court speed is the most un spoken of and one of the most important factors. Was Sampras great? You bet, but he couldn't do anything on slow courts, same goes for Nadal in reverse. Fed does great on both.

So it's much more than numbers and stats, certainly H2H means nothing either, styles make fights, that's a proverb, and Nadal will always beat Federer on slow courts.

Don't know what these people don't understand.

 

[furryballs]

No. Saying 17+ means you assumed that Roger is not winning slam anymore.

200 is still a lot lower than 302.

where is the 200 coming from? and the 17....i dont see it.

 

[furryballs]

The thought process of this poster cannot be over 3 years of age. They should allow poster over 16 years old to enter the forum only to avoid this kind of reply..

but then we have no nadal fans

 

[SublimeTennis]

If, with Nadal at 12-13 slams, a high number of people are already questioning whether Fed is the GOAT or not, do you think anyone not a Fed fan will consider Fed the GOAT if Nadal is sitting at 17 slams? The math is pretty simple: if you have the most slams, the most masters and have defeated the guy who was the GOAT 23 out of 33 times, you're the GOAT. In fact, if Nadal is sitting at 15 slams, Fed as the GOAT will probably no longer, at that point, be a majority opinion. If, at this stage, Fed still does hold that title, his hold on that title is tenuous at best.

Sorry, but that has to be the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard. So if a player starts today, wins every single title for 4 years, never drops a set, then is injured and can't play ever again, he is not the GOAT because he didn't hit some magic number?

PEOPLE, IT'S COURT SPEED, GET IT IN YOUR HEADS! It's greatest of ALL TIME, not greatest of SLOW COURT ERA. today the fastest courts are about equivalent to the FO in the 90's, if Sampras played today you wouldn't hear of him, likewise if Nadal played in other fast court eras you wouldn't hear of him, Federer dominates both, so tired of this non-sense.

 

[JohnKramer]

Can you please reduce font size..increasing the font size doesn't make federer a great player

 

[JohnKramer]

Can you please reduce font size..increasing the font size doesn't make federer a great player

this message is for cronus

 

[Deleted member 77403]

cronus is really going to town on Nadal.

 

[SLD76]

Agassi's a __________, always has been, he's conned some, but I know guys like this.

What an insult, first he says "Federer is in a higher level than Sampras", wish he would keep his mouth closed as some believe him.

I wish people once and for all would remember what GOAT actually means, it means Greatest Of ALL TIME, not just the slow court era we are in.

For all of history, Tennis has been fast court. Even the FO was faster in the 90's than Wimbledon is today. So of course Nadal is going to excel. Nothing against Nadal, I love the guy, but put him any other time in history and you'd never hear of him, he's a slow court master.

Federer on the other hand has done great in the last 14 years since they've slowed the courts down, and clearly would be even better on fast courts. Put them in the 90's competing and it wouldn't even be close.

Even today, look at Federer's win over Djokovich on the fastest court in Tennis a few months ago, it wasn't even close.

Court speed is the most un spoken of and one of the most important factors. Was Sampras great? You bet, but he couldn't do anything on slow courts, same goes for Nadal in reverse. Fed does great on both.

So it's much more than numbers and stats, certainly H2H means nothing either, styles make fights, that's a proverb, and Nadal will always beat Federer on slow courts.

Don't know what these people don't understand.

Quoted for motha humping truth!

This reminds me of a thread someone posted a while ago about how fed had to completely adapt and adjust his game to slow conditions ( abandon serve volley, improve fitness for baseline play, improve the backhand) and still dominated.

Remember the "too fast and slippery" conditions of Madrid 2 years ago? Who won the tournament and which two players complained the most (and also lost early).

Which so called goat candidate can't win the wtf cuz the court is low bouncing and doesn't take to his spin.

Which so called best returner nearly got served off the court by an improved Murray in 2012 when the court was blazing fast that year at Dubai?

The same Murray who remarked that if the courts were as fast as they used to, Federer (who won dubai in 2012) would still be a dominant world number one

 

[bullfan]

It's amazing the amount of but hurt Andres comments have made to the Federer fans!

I'm just popping corn as the need to invalidate, refute, nod generally trash Andre for not genuflecting at the altar of Fed!

 

[SLD76]

It's amazing the amount of but hurt Andres comments have made to the Federer fans!

I'm just popping corn as the need to invalidate, refute, nod generally trash Andre for not genuflecting at the altar of Fed!

I'd say it's not nearly as much activity as the recent Nadal "victory" has inspired in Nadal fans living in denial of his obvious decline..

 

[Thetouch]

God damned I didn´t know there are so manny butthurt hardocre fans here talking every day about who of their MAGIC 3 (Rafa, Fed and Novak) alltime-favourites is the best. :shock: ;-)

As far as I am concerned I don´t think any of them is the greatest and not as great as you want them to be. I can´t even rememeber most of their GS finals, besides Wimbledon 2008 and the Aussies 2009.

Agassi can say what ever he wants and the fact that there are at least 3 different threads about this topic shows that you give a cra*** about his oppinion whether you like it or not. If Agassi´s oppinion doesn´t matter at all because he "is a coke head" then why even bother? ;-)

 

[counterloop]

God damned I didn´t know there are so manny butthurt hardocre fans here talking every day about who of their MAGIC 3 (Rafa, Fed and Novak) alltime-favourites is the best. :shock: ;-)

As far as I am concerned I don´t think any of them is the greatest and not as great as you want them to be. I can´t even rememeber most of their GS finals, besides Wimbledon 2008 and the Aussies 2009.

Agassi can say what ever he wants and the fact that there are at least 3 different threads about this topic shows that you give a cra*** about his oppinion whether you like it or not. If Agassi´s oppinion doesn´t matter at all because he "is a coke head" then why even bother? ;-)

Good post. Of course Agassi's opinion matters, when he speaks it reaches millions of tennis fans, carries a lot of weight. Unfortunately, we are only message board nobodies, our opinion is just an opinion. Therefore, we have to do our best to discredit a tennis legend like Agassi's opinion simply because it doesn't line up with our own. Lol. Whatever makes you feel better.

 

[cc0509]

I'd say it's not nearly as much activity as the recent Nadal "victory" has inspired in Nadal fans living in denial of his obvious decline..

I think it is too early to say Nadal has declined significantly especially after 2013 was one of his best years ever and he made the final of the only slam so far this year. I think we have to wait and see if he loses the FO and how he does at the remaining slams to determine Nadal's true level.

 

[Antonio Puente]

Sorry, but that has to be the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard. So if a player starts today, wins every single title for 4 years, never drops a set, then is injured and can't play ever again, he is not the GOAT because he didn't hit some magic number?

Uh... what?

Not sure where you were going with that, but by your logic I assume, no, he would not be the GOAT due to the fact he accomplished it in the slow court era. Right? Also, if it's not necessary to hit targets or magic numbers, perhaps Nadal already is the GOAT. Who exactly are you advocating for here?

PEOPLE, IT'S COURT SPEED, GET IT IN YOUR HEADS! It's greatest of ALL TIME, not greatest of SLOW COURT ERA. today the fastest courts are about equivalent to the FO in the 90's,

No hyperbole there.

 

[ultradr]

Unless you're a fanatic, it should be very clear for anyone with normal brain
that Nadal is a better tennis player than Federer.

 

[ultradr]

Federer on the other hand has done great in the last 14 years since they've slowed the courts down, and clearly would be even better on fast courts. Put them in the 90's competing and it wouldn't even be close.

Huh? The slowdown process of Wimbledon and US Open courts were finalized
in 2003 and 2004. It coincide with emergence of baseline tennis.

Federer rose to the top AFTER courts slowed.

 

[TMF]

Huh? The slowdown process of Wimbledon and US Open courts were finalized
in 2003 and 2004. It coincide with emergence of baseline tennis.

Federer rose to the top AFTER courts slowed.

Courts doesn't slow down at one instance and stay fixed. They gradually slow down a little year after year to the point when it was significantly slow enough to help Nadal win outside of clay.

I've posted this link for the upteempth time but you guys refuse to learn.

http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/hard-courts-fast-clay-slow-not-so-much-.html

 

[AtomicForehand]

What a biased article in the OP. No mention whatsoever of H2H. Nor of Olympic singles titles. Nor of the difference in Masters 1000 achievements. The author picked his one criterion for GOAT and disregarded all the others, as though there were no argument to be had, and completely failing to justify Agassi's thought process and judgment. Journalism at its worst.

 

[mike danny]

Huh? The slowdown process of Wimbledon and US Open courts were finalized
in 2003 and 2004. It coincide with emergence of baseline tennis.

Federer rose to the top AFTER courts slowed.

The courts slow down every year.

You can't possibly believe W was as slow in 2004 as it is now or the USO was as slow in 2004 as it is now.


W and USO were still pretty fast in 2003-2004 compared to today. And guess what, Fed has won these titles when they were still faster than now

 

[90's Clay]

Federer can't even beat Nadal.. Good lord. Its been established for a decade now

 

[Djokovic2011]

Federer can't even beat Nadal.. Good lord. Its been established for a decade now

That's funny. I could've sworn that Federer has beaten Nadal 10 times so far but maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

 

[Defensive Tennis]

I'll save this debate for when they are both retired. Easier to gauge by then.

 

[cronus]

Nadal is a better tennis player than Federer.

That was super funny.

 

[SoBad]

That's funny. I could've sworn that Federer has beaten Nadal 10 times so far but maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

The mickey-mouse H2H is not given much weight in the traditional GOAT analysis techniques. Nadal was a slender fragile teenage boy unfamiliar with grass when he lost two Wimbledon finals.

 

[suppersready]

When it comes to GOAT debate it's slams that matter and nothing else. If federer and nadal ever have equal slams then its weeks at # 1 that decides. Then masters shields. And finally head to head in my mind. I think that simplifies things!

 

[SoBad]

When it comes to GOAT debate it's slams that matter and nothing else. If federer and nadal ever have equal slams then its weeks at # 1 that decides. Then masters shields. And finally head to head in my mind. I think that simplifies things!

The Olympic is not the greatest achievement in all of sports anymore? Holiday exhibitions weigh more than slam H2H lol?:lol:

 

[cronus]

Nadal was a slender fragile teenage boy unfamiliar with grass when he lost two Wimbledon finals.

**** was super slender and fragile in 2006 and 2007, agreed.

Roger was a total hulk monster.

 

[cronus]

The Olympic is not the greatest achievement in all of sports anymore

No truer words have been spoken.

 

[danishtennisfan]

When it comes to GOAT debate it's slams that matter and nothing else. If federer and nadal ever have equal slams then its weeks at # 1 that decides. Then masters shields. And finally head to head in my mind. I think that simplifies things!

Agree that it's slams, then weeks at nr. 1, but then for me it's next number of finals, semis and quarters in slams or "overall slam performance", then WTF+masters and lastly H2H.

 

[timnz]

And WTF's

Agree that it's slams, then weeks at nr. 1, but then for me it's next number of finals, semis and quarters in slams or "overall slam performance", then WTF+masters and lastly H2H.

WTF (1500 points (unbeaten winner) or 1300 points (one round robin loss)) is worth more than Slam Losing Finalist (1200 points). And I think that is right. So it rates higher than Slams Finals, Slam Semi's and Slam Quarters in my thinking (and the ATP's mind also obviously - given their point allocation).

I agree partially with weeks at number 1 being a high criteria. Problem with it is that it had great flaws in it until around 1985. (Borg only 1 week at number 1 until April 1979?), McEnroe YE number 1 at the end of 1982 when he won 5 not major events vs 15 Events for Lendl (including the WCT finals and the Masters).