Roger i have no sympathy for Troicki

*Sparkle*

Professional
As I said, these courts are kangaroo courts made up of the same kinds of people as the agencies they are supposed to monitor. The fact that they reduced the sentence is the strongest indication that they thought something stinks.
It's only because they realised that their existing systems don't sufficiently protect their own staff against accusations from players. If a player doesn't give a sample, they can claim that the doctor said they didn't need to, and no-one can prove they are lying.

It's a bit like a judge throwing a case out of court because the policeman didn't read the accused their rights properly. It doesn't mean the judge thinks they are innocent.

In this scenario, the case wasn't even thrown out. There is no doubt that he breached the anti-doping rules.
 

msc886

Professional
It's a lame excuse from Troicki. Blood samples can be taken at anytime including when people are sick. In fact clinicians request blood samples from sick patients to figure out what is wrong with them.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
It's a lame excuse from Troicki. Blood samples can be taken at anytime including when people are sick. In fact clinicians request blood samples from sick patients to figure out what is wrong with them.
The clinicians are under the control of doctors. This is just a guy with a syringe who shows up. Who is he to make a medical determination?

Proctologists will poke you down there if they suspect some issue. Will you also let any guy with a badge who shows up at your door to do it? (I hope not.)
 

msc886

Professional
The clinicians are under the control of doctors. This is just a guy with a syringe who shows up. Who is he to make a medical determination?

Proctologists will poke you down there if they suspect some issue. Will you also let any guy with a badge who shows up at your door to do it? (I hope not.)
Any guy? No. WADA officials (assuming I'm a professional athlete), I'd have to. Troicki knew who he was dealing with.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Any guy? No. WADA officials (assuming I'm a professional athlete), I'd have to. Troicki knew who he was dealing with.
Is that guy also a trained doctor who knows whether it is OK to do this when someone is sick? Who is liable if something happens?
 

msc886

Professional
Is that guy also a trained doctor who knows whether it is OK to do this when someone is sick? Who is liable if something happens?
First, he/she would have to be a trained health professional in order to take blood (at least nurse).

Secondly blood samples a routine tests in medical practice for diagnosis and surveillence. Of course it's safe to take it when someone is sick.
 

dr325i

Legend
Federer is completely correct. Not knowing the rules is no excuse for violating them, and I think it is clear that the official made no assurances to Troicki about the letter thing, he just heard what he wanted to hear. Troicki=likely doper due to his actions and his suspension is totally justified. Djokovic showing his true colors by supporting him so vigorously.
Ah, yes, I forgot, if you dope and just wait another 24 hours, you would be completely clean and safe?!
What the hell are the experts here saying?

Just like the W followers that believed that the WMDs could be hidden in the bushes with no trace left...

Clueless...
 

msc886

Professional
Ah, yes, I forgot, if you dope and just wait another 24 hours, you would be completely clean and safe?!
What the hell are the experts here saying?

Just like the W followers that believed that the WMDs could be hidden in the bushes with no trace left...

Clueless...
Different drugs have different pharmacological characteristics. HGH can be cleared quite quickly whereas marijuana metablites stay in the system longer.

Delay also allows time for masking agents to be used.

This is why they have random out-of-competition testing.
 
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Topslice

Guest
Really sad for Troicki. This a mans life they are dealing with. He should have known but nobody was there to support him either adn let him know if you dont take it it is a 2 year ban. If he was told that he would not hesitate to take the test. Enjoyed his hilarious outburst in Rome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=165r4mM9edc
 

*Sparkle*

Professional
Is that guy also a trained doctor who knows whether it is OK to do this when someone is sick? Who is liable if something happens?
Troicki didn't even bother talking to a doctor or other health-care professional after refusing the test, unless he spoke to one off the record.

If he had a record of him attending a clinic, I'm sure it would have been submitted as evidence at the hearing.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The bottom line is that we don't know whether Troicki was doping or not because he refused to take the test! Given that some banned substances can clear the system within 24 hours, offering to take the test the next day is irrelevent and pointless!

Personally, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and the Court of Arbitration probably were inclined to do so as well. But refusing a test is a very serious issue and what sort of message would it send to the rest of the tour if they just quashed Troicki's ban on those grounds? Every doper on the tour would be rubbing his hands with glee and making all sorts of excuses for not taking the test when the anti-doping officials arrive. They would be able to cite Troicki as a precedent.

As I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, I do feel a bit sorry for him. But I have to weigh that against the need to come down hard on dope-test evaders and so avoid the anti-doping regulations descending into complete farce. I'm sure that is what motivated the Court of Arbitration too when they decided to only partially uphold his appeal.
 
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Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
It's annoying that so many people are resorting to fluffy arguments like "they are destroying a poor young players career". Utterly ridiculous. There has to be a standard.

I guess other players should skip drug tests as well and then get their bffs to make public statements about the "injustice" they suffered.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Ah, yes, I forgot, if you dope and just wait another 24 hours, you would be completely clean and safe?!
What the hell are the experts here saying?
Um, yes. For many stimulants and some other drugs that it EXACTLY the case.

Similarly, there are masking efforts which can be done for others which need only the opportunity to be out of sight of the tester for a few minutes to take. That's why they hang around.

Clueless...
Touche. Nice own-goal on this one. :lol:
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
The bottom line is that we don't know whether Troicki was doping or not because he refused to take the test! Given that some banned substances can clear the system within 24 hours, offering to take the test the next day is irrelevent and pointless!
This is a salient point here which some people seem intent on thinking of in terms of "innocent until proven guilty" which is not how it works. A missed/avoided test is deemed to be a fail specifically because everyone would avoid them otherwise and come up with a myriad of reasons.

Google Kostas Kenteris and Katerina Thanou to see a perfect example of why this rule is in place.

Personally, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and the Court of Arbitration probably were inclined to do so as well. But refusing a test is a very serious issue and what sort of message
I agree. I'd like to think that he didn't take anything but, similarly, it is implausible he didn't know how the system worked. Sure he could have had the conversation witnessed or had it written down but that was his failing not doing so. The tester is nobody, just a person who shows up to administer the collection - they have veto powers over the rules.

It's sad for Troicki but these events will help others (himself included) avoid the same thing happening again. It's shone a light on an area of the testing system where things can go badly wrong, as they have for him.
 

fednad

Hall of Fame
I am sure all the morons who are attacking Fed in this thread did not care to read the link provided by OP.
And OP should not give such misleading titles to the thread
 

newpball

Legend
What happened was that Troicki was misled by the official and believed it.
And you believe that story?
Perhaps you want to buy some good quality high potential desert land?

Sure makes total sense:

Troicki: "Oh, I feel a bit off this morning, is it alright to skip the blood test till tomorrow".
Official: "Sure thing! Take some aspirins, hope you feel better tomorrow!"

Come on now, let's not insult each others intelligence.
 
I sympathize with Troicki, but he has been a pro player since 2006. I find it hard to believe a 7 year pro does not know the rules regarding his responsibilities in terms of providing a sample. I have had to provide unannounced urine samples for drug testing as part of a job I had in the past. You better believe I knew the process pretty quick and the consequences if I did not provide the sample.
 

ctoth666

Banned
Federer is completely correct. Not knowing the rules is no excuse for violating them, and I think it is clear that the official made no assurances to Troicki about the letter thing, he just heard what he wanted to hear. Troicki=likely doper due to his actions and his suspension is totally justified. Djokovic showing his true colors by supporting him so vigorously.
I have to say, that not knowing rules is actually a pretty good excuse for violating them. I mean, not in a court of law, per say, but if you think about it logically, it is actually quite a good excuse.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
I have to say, that not knowing rules is actually a pretty good excuse for violating them. I mean, not in a court of law, per say, but if you think about it logically, it is actually quite a good excuse.
In a strictly logical sense I agree but participation in the tour depends on an implicit acknowledgement that you acceptant the rules. Ignorance can't be the defence here. (and I don't think it was)
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
I find it rather amusing that the threads that actually dealt with the Troicki matter only garnered a few posts. But now that Federer chimes in with a rather mild (in my opinion) statement, all of a sudden all the termites come out of the woodwork.

Only when something involves Federer or Nadal does it garner interest in this forum. I'd wager most of you hadn't even given the Troicki matter a second thought but now that Fed says something its a convenient excuse to spam your usual invective. Some of you just can not function without spewing your hate (or delusional fandom) when it comes to Nadal or Federer.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Talks like a self-righteous guy because nothing bad has happened to him.

The question is not even what he is talking about. What happened was that Troicki was misled by the official and believed it. Then WADA decided to hide the official's faults and blame the player. That is why it was thrown back by the Court of Arbitration. It is up to them to decide, not for players like Federer. He has no business to say this when the court has already ruled. It shows his gloating nature and his unwillingness to stand up to authority. He should get out of the ATP council if he cannot protect the players. He knows that no official would dare to misbehave with him because of his clout and simply does not understand that in real life, rules are often applied differently to people with less power
Looks like you did not even read the link. The title is very misleading.
 

nadal era

New User
Federer is such a fraud. A guy that was unshaven and had ugly long hair was turned into something he definitely is not. The guy has no respect for his peers. He just comes across as an extreme elitist that would sell his wife and children just to be popular with the elites.
 

Incognito

Legend
Before this incident, I was almost ok with Federer. But once again he opens his mouth and bad things happen. Now I will not only root for Djokovic but will go one step further in supporting anyone but Federer. That means I will even root for Nadal over Federer.
So you will stop supporting Andy Murray too? He is with Roger on this one..
 

Goosehead

Legend
I have to say, that not knowing rules is actually a pretty good excuse for violating them. I mean, not in a court of law, per say, but if you think about it logically, it is actually quite a good excuse.
lol troiki was prob saying stuff like...

"doping test rules ? what doping test rules ?..I didn't know about any doping test rules..i thought they were, like y'know..optional". :neutral:

.."oh its not fair if you ban me, I thought the rules were just for a bit of a laugh..that's why I didn't bother to learn them". :) arf arf arf.
 
F

FedererWinsWimbledon2014

Guest
Have to go with Andy and Roger on this one.
 
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Pidgeon

Semi-Pro
Yes Troicki is innocent.. Come on he is being completly honest, he was just feeling sick.
Ain't that right Lance ?
 

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
Many people took advantage of the naive, good-natured boy from Basel...and changed him.
LOL. Yeah, its so crazy that Federer has changed since his teenage years.

While we are on this topic, I also want to point out the commercial exploitation of an innocent young boy from Mallorca.





 

Crisstti

Legend
No. While he believes Troicki isn't a drug cheat, he knows he must be punished for not taking the test.
I don't think anyone actually believes Troicki was doping but it's obvious he must pay for his stupidity.
Uhm, I don't see why should we believe his ridiculous explanation actually. Doping is the most likely explanation for his behaviour.

He is either a doper (most likely IMO) or he is the dumbest guy there is to think he could ever get away with that. Either way I don't feel sorry for him and totally agree with Roger who is right on this time.
Exactly. I agree with Fed too, and with Murray, who was actually a lot harsher.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Before this incident, I was almost ok with Federer. But once again he opens his mouth and bad things happen. Now I will not only root for Djokovic but will go one step further in supporting anyone but Federer. That means I will even root for Nadal over Federer.
Having sympathy for Troicki is no difference than having sympathy for Bonds, or Armstrong. No way! These athletes put themselves to shame because they know doping is absolutely prohibited. Sympathize them would invite more shame to the sport. Capiche ?
 
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