Roger losing to Nole in 5 setters unrelated to age

[Alien]

Federer 2005 would have lost to Nole because he was no better player than he is today. You want to think he is slower (at miliseconds that no human eye can detect but lets assume his), but he has 10 years of more practice, better serve, better volley and a distinct aggressive strategy.

 

[SublimeTennis]

People keep saying the mantra: Federer cannot beat Djokovic to 5 sets anymore, he is too old.

Which is completely wrong. Resistance is the last to disappear, and certainly not at 34. Quick muscles are the first to go (and his performance shows he is no slower than before, but this is altogether another matter).


For instance:

http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/age-matters-for-marathoning

"These physiological changes inevitably alter marathon performance. Though individuals will age differently, studies indicate that beyond about age 35, endurance performance declines by about five to 15 percent per decade, says Dieter Leyk, a researcher at the Institute for Physiology and Anatomy in Cologne, Germany. Leyk recently examined age–related changes in marathon performance among 300,757 runners, and found that among top–10 finishers, running times slowed by about 10.5 percent per decade for men and 14.8 percent among women.

But that study yielded encouraging news for runners outside of the lead pack. For the nonelites tracked, the decline was a little lower-and began later. "For these runners, significant age–related losses in endurance performance did not occur before the age of 50. Mean marathon and half–marathon times were nearly identical for the age groups from 20 to 49 years." The bottom line: Keep up your training, and there's no reason you can't continue to put in solid performances well into middle–age."



If Federer cannot keep up with Nole up to 5 sets, it s certainly NOT because of his age, but just because Nole's tennis is better than his nowadays. Period. Age is not excuse for having less resistance.

Some with age lose speed, some lose reflexes, Federer has lost his nerve, that simple. He can blow top guys away in quick, unimportant tournaments, but lower matches Fed keeps his nerve.

 

[Alien]

I agree with OP. Nadal not making last 6 slam semis is not because he is getting old. It's only because the competition has improved and this peak Nadal can't handle this higher level of tennis.

Nadal´s case is different. Level cannot be that higher compared to 2013. He has been crippled and skipping for months, interrupting hi evolution and restart from scratch is hard. Federer has never had such curve, he is always accumulating training, shots, etc.

 

[Alien]

Some with age lose speed, some lose reflexes, Federer has lost his nerve, that simple. He can blow top guys away in quick, unimportant tournaments, but lower matches Fed keeps his nerve.

You simply dont lose your nerve with age. On the contrary, you gain. So either he never had it, or that was not the problem.

 

[SublimeTennis]

You simply dont lose your nerve with age. On the contrary, you gain. So either he never had it, or that was not the problem.

You don't know tennis do you? Watch the match, Fed panicked, stayed back unlike the rest of the tournament, and lost. Baseline to baseline it's Djokovic approximately 60-40 favor, when Fed comes forward it's 60-40 Fed.

 

[ForumMember]

Not sure about quick muscles part as well. Gatlin is running his best times at the age of 33.

 

[Alien]

You don't know tennis do you? Watch the match, Fed panicked, stayed back unlike the rest of the tournament, and lost. Baseline to baseline it's Djokovic approximately 60-40 favor, when Fed comes forward it's 60-40 Fed.

so he always had that problem. You must be a kid.If you are above 40, you would know your character strengthens with age, doesnt weaken.

 

[dudeski]

Nadal´s case is different. Level cannot be that higher compared to 2013. He has been crippled and skipping for months, interrupting hi evolution and restart from scratch is hard. Federer has never had such curve, he is always accumulating training, shots, etc.

Wrong. You can't have it both ways. If anything 5 years younger Nadal is much closer to his physical peak/prime than Federer so your argument is just making Nadal look worse in comparison. Also, fact that Nadal likes to withdraw from slams for purely mental reasons doesn't make it look good. He is not crippled when he plays minor tournaments and exo matches right before withdrawing from slams or instead of playing slams. He is doing it because he is lacking confidence and doesn't feel mentally ready for top level competition. Federer never does it and just ends up losing when not being physically 100%. For example with late 2008 till end of 2013 back problems or 2008 lack practise due to mono or late 2005 ankle brace etc. He just goes ahead and plays anyway. Nadal just quits for months.

 

[Alien]

Wrong. You can't have it both ways. If anything 5 years younger Nadal is much closer to his physical peak/prime than Federer so your argument is just making Nadal look worse in comparison. Also, fact that Nadal likes to withdraw from slams for purely mental reasons doesn't make it look good. He is not crippled when he plays minor tournaments and exo matches right before withdrawing from slams or instead of playing slams. He is doing it because he is lacking confidence and doesn't feel mentally ready for top level competition. Federer never does it and just ends up losing when not being physically 100%. For example with late 2008 till end of 2013 back problems or 2008 lack practise due to mono or late 2005 ankle brace etc. He just goes ahead and plays anyway. Nadal just quits for months.

LOL
Federer had some months a minor back problem that didnt prevent him from playing. Mono is of course questionable (I mean, Soderling had Mono. Roger ? Kvitova?).
Federer except for those few months has always been healthy and accumulates, builds on top every months. Nadal, DP, have to stop and restart.
Nadal 2015 maybe is in a confidence slump. But unrelated to age unless you consider his injuries a consequence of age.

 

[HoyaPride]

As for worrying about Fed at 25, I'm not. I'm simply stating the blunt fact that tennis players have more performance potential at 25 than at 34.

Unless, of course, you're Serena Williams.

 

[dudeski]

LOL
Federer had some months a minor back problem that didnt prevent him from playing. Mono is of course questionable (I mean, Soderling had Mono. Roger ? Kvitova?).
Federer except for those few months has always been healthy and accumulates, builds on top every months. Nadal, DP, have to stop and restart.
Nadal 2015 maybe is in a confidence slump. But unrelated to age unless you consider his injuries a consequence of age.

Federer had back problems from late 2008 till end of 2013. That's a very long time and it showed in his very inconsistent play and serving etc. Nadal didn't have to stop. He decided to do that because of lack of confidence.

 

[Alien]

Federer had back problems from late 2008 till end of 2013. That's a very long time and it showed in his very inconsistent play and serving etc. Nadal didn't have to stop. He decided to do that because of lack of confidence.

Sorry, just go and learn about Nadal, his knees, apendicits (unless you pretend confidence causes apendicitis), feet (maybe the surgery he suffered was also caused by confidence).

5 years of back problems for Federer. Certainly not. Just a semester. 5 years with back problems would make him Quasimodo.

Not sure what you have been reading...

 

[Sysyphus]

Unless, of course, you're Serena Williams.

No. If she genuinely performed at a better level (relatively speaking) at age 34 than when younger, then it's in all likelihood either a sign that she didn't fully reach her potential when younger and having more athletic potential, or that external factors have been different in a way that has had an effect on her respective results.

 

[HoyaPride]

Federer had back problems from late 2008 till end of 2013. That's a very long time and it showed in his very inconsistent play and serving etc..

Sort of like Manny Pacquiao's shoulder injury that his fans bring up.

"I don't want to make excuses or alibis, but the only reason I lost was because of my shoulder injury."

-Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao

 

[HoyaPride]

No. If she genuinely performed at a better level (relatively speaking) at age 34 than when younger, then it's in all likelihood either a sign that she didn't fully reach her potential when younger and having more athletic potential, or that external factors have been different in a way that has had an effect on her respective results.

Potential doesn't mean anything. When has potential ever won anything? Performance wins championships, not potential. Serena is either playing at a higher level today than she was 10 years ago or she's not. What do you think?

 

[Sysyphus]

Potential doesn't mean anything. When has potential ever won anything? Performance wins championships, not potential. Serena is either playing at a higher level today than she was 10 years ago or she's not. What do you think?

It matters everything in this discussion where we are discussing whether age is a factor for your level when you are 34, and that's all I'm maintaining here.

Simple really.

 

[HoyaPride]

It matters everything in this discussion where we are discussing whether age is a factor for your level when you are 34, and that's all I'm maintaining here.

Simple really.

So what do you think of her actual level of tennis compared to 10 years ago?

 

[Sysyphus]

So what do you think of her actual level of tennis compared to 10 years ago?

I don't know, you don't know, and it's irrelevant to this discussion.

What I do know is that her advancing age is a gradually increasing factor, notwithstanding how well she deals with it, compensates for it , or how she played 10 years ago.

 

[HoyaPride]

I don't know, you don't know, and it's irrelevant to this discussion.

So if I asked you if Federer's 2015 level is higher than his 2013 level, you'd say "I don't know, you don't know, it's irrelevant to this discussion"?

I don't see how if it's irrelevant if we're discussing if players can play a higher level of tennis at an older age than they did at a younger age.

 

[Sysyphus]

So if I asked you if Federer's 2015 level is higher than his 2013 level, you'd say "I don't know, you don't know, it's irrelevant to this discussion"?

That's a more clear-cut case, but yes, still irrelevant for anything I've argued. Note what I said about disturbing factors and playing out your potential (Roger was worse in 2013 because of injury and whatever else, and he didn't become better again because of age, but despite it because of other reasons).

I don't see how if it's irrelevant if we're discussing if players can play a higher level of tennis at an older age than they did at a younger age.

That's never been what I've discussed or argues—and note again about external and/or other factors than age. Of course you can play better at an age that—all things equal—would be less advantageous for you, because all things aren't equal. Other factors play a role too. That doesn't negate the factor of age, it just notes the fact that other factors play a role too.

 

[ultradr]

So unrelated to age, again.

He either has always been mentally fragile (your saying, I disagree), or not. He doesnt change mental at 34, sorry.

I don't think it is a mental issue. Strategic 1 dimensionality. Multi-dimensional in terms of shot selection (in terms of power baseline domain).
Stupendously stubborn sticking to 1 strategy only : increase risk taking only if safe (he is leading in a match, so to speak).