Roger VS Novak - the season they turned 38 years old

G

Gastino

Professional
This is a comparison between Rogers' 19 season where he turned 38 in august and Novaks' 25 where he turned 38 in may which is a fair comparison :

Recap Rogers' season:
Australian Open – 4th Round loss to Stefanos Tsitsipas
Dubai – Winner (def. Tsitsipas in final)
Indian Wells – Finalist (lost to Dominic Thiem)
Miami Open – Winner (def. John Isner in final)
Madrid Open – Quarterfinal loss to Dominic Thiem
Rome – Withdrew before quarterfinal vs. Tsitsipas (leg injury)
Roland-Garros – Semifinal loss to Rafael Nadal
Halle – Winner (def. David Goffin in final)
Wimbledon – Finalist (loss to Novak Djokovic in 5 sets)
Cincinnati – 3rd Round loss to Andrey Rublev
US Open – Quarterfinal loss to Grigor Dimitrov
Shanghai – Quarterfinal loss to Alexander Zverev
Swiss Indoors (Basel) – Winner (def. Alex de Minaur in final)
Paris Masters – Withdrew before tournament
ATP Finals – Semifinal loss to Tsitsipas (beat Djokovic in round robin)

Finished the season with 4 titles ( dubai, miami, halle, basel ). Held championship points against world n1 Novak ! at wimbeldon. Lost in the semi final of RG to Nadal. Defeated Novak in the ATP finals. Finished the year ranked 3rd (6500pts) behind Nadal and Djoko.

Recap Novaks' season:
Brisbane International – Quarterfinal loss to Reilly Opelka (lost in QF)
Australian Open – Semifinal loss to Alexander Zverev (retired due to injury after losing first set)
Qatar Open (Doha) – First-round loss to Matteo Berrettini
Indian Wells – Second-round loss to Botic van de Zandschulp
Miami Open – Finalist (lost to Jakub Menšík)
Monte-Carlo Masters – Second-round loss to Alejandro Tabilo
Madrid Open – Second-round loss to Matteo Arnaldi
Geneva Open – Winner (defeated Hubert Hurkacz in final) — 100th career title
Roland-Garros (French Open) – Semifinal loss to Jannik Sinner
Wimbledon – Semifinal loss to Jannik Sinner
US Open – Semifinal loss to Carlos Alcaraz
Hellenic Championship (Athens) – Winner (defeated Lorenzo Musetti in final)
Skipped ATP finals

Finished the season with 1 title - athens , made all Slams semi-finals. Finished the season ranked 4th with 4,820 points. Impressive but not close to the season Federer actually had in a supposed stronger era.

This does bring into question lots of narratives I've been seeing around here but shout out to Roger for his impressive 2019 season !
 
Last edited:
Hitman said:
We also need to keep in mind, that Djokovic turned 38 BEFORE RG, so he played three slams while being 38 that season. Federer turned 38 after Wimbledon, so only played one slam past his 38th birthday in 2019.
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3 months is really a negligeable difference in age , it's a really fair comparison in my opinion.

Even if you were to compare 19 Roger to 24 Novak. Roger still bests him being 9 months older.

Also i've been seing people banging about how the 2010's was a tougher era so if you factor that it it becomes even worse.
 
Gastino said:
3 months is really a negligeable difference in age , it's a really fair comparison in my opinion.

Even if you were to compare 19 Roger to 24 Novak. Roger still bests him being 9 months older.

Also i've been seing people banging about how the 2010's was a tougher era so if you factor that it it becomes even worse.
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Yes, but the fact he played 3 slams at that age is a big thing.

Federer, when he turned 38, play USO and then AO, and that is it. He was done.

Djokovic as a 38 year old, played a slam final, and made the semis of the other three.
 
Hitman said:
Yes, but the fact he played 3 slams at that age is a big thing.

Federer, when he turned 38, play USO and then AO, and that is it. He was done.

Djokovic as a 38 year old, played a slam final, and made the semis of the other three.
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at such advanced age even 2 and a half months of difference might have an impact (surely not a big one but still)
 
Gastino said:
3 months is really a negligeable difference in age , it's a really fair comparison in my opinion.

Even if you were to compare 19 Roger to 24 Novak. Roger still bests him being 9 months older.

Also i've been seing people banging about how the 2010's was a tougher era so if you factor that it it becomes even worse.
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OG>4MM
OG was tournament he wanted most.
And he was injured
 
Last edited:
Gastino said:
Ok I'll give you that but how about the other stuff ?
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funnily enough I had a slightly different thread a while back, making a similar point. Fed was a killer 37 year old. Djoker has been v impressive aged 38 though. Fed got cooked halfway through his 38th year, but Djoker kept going and made a slam final.

jl809

Thread 'With Djokodal’s 38th year being bleak for both, let’s reflect again on how ridiculously good Federer was aged 37'

From August 8, 2018, to August 8, 2019:

  • Cincinnati F (loses to renewed Djokovic, up a break in set 2)
  • Shanghai SF
  • Basel W
  • Paris SF (loses to Djokovic in 3 close sets)
  • ATP finals SF (loses 5-7 6-7 to eventual winner Abuserev)
  • Australian Open 4R (kinda chokes a bit, loses sets 6-7, 5-7, 6-7)
Here he steps it up:
  • Dubai W
  • Indian Wells F (loses to Thiem)
  • Miami W
  • Madrid QF (loses to RG finalist Thiem, but has match points)
  • Rome QF (withdraws because he can)
  • RG SF (beats Ruud and Stan, and plays creditably in atrocious conditions in the SF, forcing...
  • Like
 
Zeref123 said:
at such advanced age even 2 and a half months of difference might have an impact (surely not a big one but still)
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Okay if we're gonna hair split for 3 months how about 9 months handicap for roger which is more impactful by your own logic. 19 Fed still had a better season than 24 Novak, what now ?
 
Gastino said:
Okay if we're gonna hair split for 3 months how about 9 months handicap for roger which is more impactful by your own logic. 19 Fed still had a better season than 24 Novak, what now ?
Click to expand...

This is fairest way to look at

Federer had the better year when they turned 37

And

Djokovic has the better year when they turned 38
 
Let's not forget, Fed's knees finally gave up on him on the very first major after the quoted 2019 season.

So let's cherish Djokovic's continued tenure as a top player, because it could end without warning at any second.

I hope he can endure and go away on his own terms, rather than being forced out by a failing body like Fedal.
 
Gastino said:
How?? i just compared the 2 seasons and Roger's accomplishments clear novak's

Do you mean the year they turn 39 maybe ?
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The seasons are not a true like for like comparison, as I already said. One player played 3 slams while being 38, the other only one.

Their actual years are a better and fair comparison, what they did at the same age.

Federer was clearly better when he turned 37 than Djokovic, and Djokovic is clearly better when he turned 38 than Federer
 
season is an arbitrary selection.

38 years old Djokovic: 1 Slam final, 3 Slam semifinals
38 years old Federer: 1 Slam semifinal

37 years old Djokovic: 1 Slam final, 1 Slam semifinal, 1 Olympic gold
37 years old: 1 Slam final, 1 Slam semifinal, 1 Masters

36 years old Djokovic: 2 Slam titles, 1 Slam final, 1 Slam semifinal, 1 YEC, 2 Masters
36 years old Federer: 1 Slam title, 1 Masters
 
Federer's knees are the worst thing that happened to tennis. He should've kept his body better like Novak instead of eating all that chocolate.
 
Hitman said:
The seasons are not a true like for like comparison, as I already said. One player played 3 slams while being 38, the other only one.

Their actual years are a better and fair comparison, what they did at the same age.

Federer was clearly better when he turned 37 than Djokovic, and Djokovic is clearly better when he turned 38 than Federer
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I hear your argument but comparing seasons is much cleaner than age as not everyone is born january 1st.
You have the body of work during a season, I guess we'll see how Novak's seasson goes from here.
 
Gastino said:
I hear your argument but comparing seasons is much cleaner than age as not everyone is born january 1st.
You have the body of work during a season, I guess we'll see how Novak's seasson goes from here.
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But comparing seasons doesn't take into account mileage, and the aging process.

You are comparing a player who was mostly 37 to a player who was mostly 38, this isn't cleaner than actually comparing them from when they were the exact same age.
 
I can't recall much talk about "the impressive 2019" season by Federer. Unless by Djokovic fans, to increase the title's value.

It looked like Federer would win Wimbledon beating Nadal and Djokovic, but he confused the finish line with the Finnish line.
 
Hitman said:
You are comparing a player who was mostly 37 to a player who was mostly 38, this isn't cleaner than actually comparing them from when they were the exact same age.
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that's just disingenuous they're literally 2.5 months apart if you wanna start splitting hairs not mostly 37 and mostly 38
 
jl809 said:
funnily enough I had a slightly different thread a while back, making a similar point. Fed was a killer 37 year old. Djoker has been v impressive aged 38 though. Fed got cooked halfway through his 38th year, but Djoker kept going and made a slam final.

jl809

Thread 'With Djokodal’s 38th year being bleak for both, let’s reflect again on how ridiculously good Federer was aged 37'

From August 8, 2018, to August 8, 2019:

  • Cincinnati F (loses to renewed Djokovic, up a break in set 2)
  • Shanghai SF
  • Basel W
  • Paris SF (loses to Djokovic in 3 close sets)
  • ATP finals SF (loses 5-7 6-7 to eventual winner Abuserev)
  • Australian Open 4R (kinda chokes a bit, loses sets 6-7, 5-7, 6-7)
Here he steps it up:
  • Dubai W
  • Indian Wells F (loses to Thiem)
  • Miami W
  • Madrid QF (loses to RG finalist Thiem, but has match points)
  • Rome QF (withdraws because he can)
  • RG SF (beats Ruud and Stan, and plays creditably in atrocious conditions in the SF, forcing...
  • Like
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interesting ... that doesn't bold well for the weak era argument though doesn't it ?
 
Gastino said:
that's just disingenuous they're literally 2.5 months apart if you wanna start splitting hairs not mostly 37 and mostly 38
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I am not. You know you are comparing them unfairly. Why are you comparing a player who had a three slam season at 38 to a player who only had a one slam season at 38?

How is that fair?
 
Hitman said:
I am not. You know you are comparing them unfairly. Why are you comparing a player who had a three slam season at 38 to a player who only had a one slam season at 38?

How is that fair?
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Because it's literally easier to take a whole season instead of tracking at what exact date player A turned age X. They were born 2.5 months apart not 1 year apart.
junkieballer said:
season is an arbitrary selection.
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It's literally how we compile the years into seasons , it's like saying it's arbitrary that games are 4 points and sets are made of 6 games. Duh.
 
at the end why exactly is that important? if some player did better in some particular age than another? saying it so the greatest result in those period was noles OG!
 
Gastino said:
This is a comparison between Rogers' 19 season where he turned 38 in august and Novaks' 25 where he turned 38 in may which is a fair comparison :

Recap Novaks' season:

Geneva Open – Winner (defeated Hubert Hurkacz in final) — 100th career title

Hellenic Championship (Athens) – Winner (defeated Lorenzo Musetti in final)


Finished the season with 1 title - athens , made all Slams semi-finals. Finished the season ranked 4th with 4,820 points. Impressive but not close to the season Federer actually had in a supposed stronger era.
Click to expand...

Doesn't this mean that Novak had 2 titles in 2025, not 1?
 
Gastino said:
Because it's literally easier to take a whole season instead of tracking at what exact date player A turned age X. They were born 2.5 months apart not 1 year apart.

It's literally how we compile the years into seasons , it's like saying it's arbitrary that games are 4 points and sets are made of 6 games. Duh.
Click to expand...

That still doesn't make it fair, just because it is easier for you, doesn't make it fairer.

What is the issue with comparing them from the actual day they turned 37 and the actual day they turned 38?

We all know Federer was better than Djokovic when both were 37, and we all know Djokovic was better than Federer when both were 38....wouldn't you at least agree with that?
 
Hitman said:
We all know Federer was better than Djokovic when both were 37, and we all know Djokovic was better than Federer when both were 38....wouldn't you at least agree with that?
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That's actually fair if you want to compare after they turned 38 . But fed did beat Novak world #1 at atp finals after turning 38 and made semis and won basel 500. Novak just defeated #2 and made a slam final so Novak slightly the better achievement yes.
 
Hitman said:
That still doesn't make it fair, just because it is easier for you, doesn't make it fairer.

What is the issue with comparing them from the actual day they turned 37 and the actual day they turned 38?

We all know Federer was better than Djokovic when both were 37, and we all know Djokovic was better than Federer when both were 38....wouldn't you at least agree with that?
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This is the sensible conclusion. Federer was much more dominant with an 85% win rate to Djokovic's 75% at 37. He also won more titles. Fed played well the first half after turning 38 but his knee eventually gave out and Covid happened. Djokovic is playing much better tennis at 38 and he's gone deeper in the majors.
 
Gastino said:
That's actually fair if you want to compare after they turned 38 . But fed did beat Novak world #1 at atp finals after turning 38 and made semis and won basel 500. Novak just defeated #2 and made a slam final so Novak slightly the better achievement yes.
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Novak JUST defeated the world number 2?

Are you forgetting the world number two is 14 years younger, not six, and unlike Djokovic in 2019 is in his actual peak. Plus, it was a best of five, not a best of three.
 
Hitman said:
Novak JUST defeated the world number 2?

Are you forgetting the world number two is 14 years younger, not six, and unlike Djokovic in 2019 is in his actual peak. Plus, it was a best of five, not a best of three.
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Isn't Novak supposed to be the GOAT ? so it's not apples to apples comparison . 6 older than the goat is a huge handicap , we don't know where jannik stands in all-time hierarchy yet.
 
Also, not to mention he defeated 4 time slam winner and defending champion, how many of that did federer defeated?

Let me recall ZERO!!
Hitman said:
Novak JUST defeated the world number 2?

Are you forgetting the world number two is 14 years younger, not six, and unlike Djokovic in 2019 is in his actual peak. Plus, it was a best of five, not a best of three.
Click to expand...
 
Gastino said:
Isn't Novak supposed to be the GOAT ? so it's not apples to apples comparison . 6 older than the goat is a huge handicap , we don't know where jannik stands in all-time hierarchy yet.
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There is no GOAT.

And secondly, Jannik had won the last two AO, had been a 5-0 winning streak against Djokovic, including winning the last three slam encounters they had.

He also was coming in on a winning streak, winning Vienna, Paris and Turin back to back to back.
 
yash_chanda72 said:
Also, not to mention he defeated 4 time slam winner and defending champion, how many of that did federer defeated?

Let me recall ZERO!!
Click to expand...

What Djokovic did in the Sinner match was no small feat by any stretch of the imagination...Sinner for trying for his sixth consecutive slam final.
 
However, if we were to compare both of them from ages 37-39, Djokovic would still edge out Federer in terms of longevity, performance, and dominance. To be fair to Federer, he is missing the latter half of 38. If we want to do 37 to 38.5 to draw some hypotheticals, it's pretty even.
  • The Case for Federer: He was the better tennis player week-to-week. He won more titles, had a significantly higher win percentage (84% vs 76%), and stayed ranked higher (No. 3 vs. No. 4) while playing a more rigorous schedule. If "accomplished" means "winningest," Federer takes it.
  • The Case for Djokovic: He achieved the higher historical peak. By winning the Olympic Gold at 37, he did something Federer (and most others) never could. He also reached more Grand Slam semifinals in this window than Federer did, showing a higher floor at the most prestigious events.
 
Coolhwip said:
However, if we were to compare both of them from ages 37-39, Djokovic would still edge out Federer in terms of longevity, performance, and dominance.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a comparison then, Federer was pretty much done after AO 2020, at 38.5 years.
 
Hitman said:
There is no GOAT.

And secondly, Jannik had won the last two AO, had been a 5-0 winning streak against Djokovic, including winning the last three slam encounters they had.

He also was coming in on a winning streak, winning Vienna, Paris and Turin back to back to back.
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but i thought this era was trash , so sinners' accomplishments are not as impressive
 
Hitman said:
Yes, of course.

When did you start watching tennis?
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My older brother was an avid sports fan he'd watch everything so i started tuning in to big matches with him late 90's. I was a casual viewer at that time though , i used to root for sampras because of his play style in the agassi rivalry.

I started watching tennis on tournament to tournament basis when Roger starting ascending around mid 2003.
 
Gastino said:
My older brother was an avid sports fan he'd watch everything so i started tuning in to big matches with him late 90's. I was a casual viewer at that time though , i used to root for sampras because of his play style in the agassi rivalry.

I started watching tennis on tournament to tournament basis when Roger starting ascending around mid 2003.
Click to expand...

Nice. (y)
 
Hitman said:
I think @MichaelNadal is just annoyed that even at 37 Federer won Miami and Nadal couldn't win it even once when he came so close so many times.
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ok, anyway, winning OG on CC beating CC god and CC prince (who just won RG on the same court) after years of mocking to not winning that is mind blowing.
and WTF is much bigger hole in his resume than miami. with miami he would still not have GM due he is missing paris too.
 
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