Mustard
Bionic Poster
They did meet in the semi finals of 2007 Wimbledon. Nadal won 3-6, 6-1, 4-1 ret., Djokovic retiring with feet blisters.
Roland Garros 2024 entry list is out
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
messiahrobins
Legend
The last line is actually a fair point i had never actually thought about.
NAS
Hall of Fame
No, special system was for only first 32 rank players not everybody
NAS
Hall of Fame
Actually I have always pointed this out in my old post, Rafa had already played brutual five setter against Delpo and he was now 2-1 behind in set , curfew actually help him to regain his level next day.
He was started to look tired in that tie brake
I have said many times one rule helped Rafa and other Novak, cancelling out each other
messiahrobins
Legend
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
It’s not Nadal that they are protecting.
Unseeded Player
Hall of Fame
After the cleaning from De Minaur I can't agree with you
And excuse brigade gave the slam to Nadal after he lost the semis. Not even the finals.
Nadal played well, Djokovic played better and the cross court pass was just unreal in the last set to take the match away. That's the truth
Nagal is also there. Woohoo. Expecting atleast round 2 from him this time. Anything more is just bonusRoland-Garros 2024: Entry list announced - Roland-Garros 2025 - The official site
The entry list has been announced for the 2024 edition of Roland-Garros, which will take place from 20th May to 9th June 2024.www.rolandgarros.com
Agree with everything you said. But concerning the "unofficial ways", if they exist, I'm not so sure if it works in THAT direction this time.
On the contrary, Nadal could lose to anyone now, but many people would like to see a Nadal/Alcaraz RG match or one against current improved Sinner or even one last time against Djokovic. Would be a much better first round than a potential exit against a rather irrelevant player.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
But I read somewhere that Nadal treated that one like an exho because he has a soccer date after the match.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
You have some very weird, contrasting opinions. One day you say there is peak/prime versions and players peak in their 20's. You call Djokovic's success in his 30's less valuable. (For me it's after 33-34 in comparison the past players anyway thats another topic.)
In other day you say Nadal cannot win against any Djokovic at Wimbledon due to 7>2.
You have no respect Nadal at Wimbledon while Djokovic never beat the version of Federer like Nadal did in 2008. Or do you think Federer is the same post 2012 as he was in 2000's?
Last edited:
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
That's pure hyphotetical coming from your fanbase. We can't know that. Wasn't there was a talk that Djokovic didn't have stamina back then it might actually helped him or both.
Atleast our opinion makes sense or more valid about conditions.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Yes I have no respect for Nadal at wimbledon, I find Federer's loss an abomination that happened due to his mental weakness due to all the clay defeats, sure Djokovic never beat peak Fed at wimbledon and probably never can beat but even Nadal never beat. I don't see Nadal or Djokovic beat Federer 2005-2006 at wimbledon, especially Federer of 2005 who was majestic. Nadal's game matches up well to Fed while Nole's matches well to Nadal by nullifying everything that Nadal brings to the table, so why should I respect Nadal in a conversation pitted vs Nole by using Federer as an argument? That makes no sense at all.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
But you say there is prime/peak versions then your reasoning is 7>2 this makes no sense. Nadal played all those finals prior to 2011 and was close to beating Federer in 2007 too.
from 2006 to 2011 Nadal reached all finals apart from 2009 which he didn't played.
These are excuses you will see that Federer was super clutch in 2007 match otherwise he could/would have lost that too. Level gap wasn't big or there was no gap actually.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Nole was at his peak in 2015 at age 28
I am sure it is higher than Nadal's peak at age 22, so my rule of being in your prime in your 20s is not violated..... I would never glorify any 30+ versions of Novak as peak.
7>2 is quite valid because Nadal is of Novak's same age, if he peaked earlier doesn't mean he gets any brownie points. 7 vs 2 is too big a margin...
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Novak didn't have any stamina issues in WB18
And yes, this is all hypothetical. That's my point; it's all made up, and if one fanbase can come up with alternative scenarios where their favorite wins more, other fanbases can do the same.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Zverev is flat out better player than tsitsipas. He is also a massive choker to lose the match in 5.
A loser. I don't know why people like Zverev and hate tsitsipas. Tsitsipas has technical issues but a heart of champion. Tsitsipas may cheat but he is trying to win the big titles.
Zverev is just a loser.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Isn't this clear had Djokovic won easily more comfortable then roof argument shouldn't make sense or used for Nadal. Imagine if Nadal play just %10 better or Djoko to play %10 that would make all the difference in a close match.
If really the roof affected the players and their levels then it can make difference Nadal making close actually make more sense to use this argument.
Who knows without roof maybe Nadal would have won in 4 sets. Or maybe still Djokovic would have won the match.
But since Djokovic wanted roof to be closed and their game opposite it can be said that roof helped Djokovic.
For visible argument one can say that Djokovic wouldn't have high % of first serve and wouldn't make as many aces like he did.
Regardless it is one of the best match ever for me.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Nadal should have won the RG 2021 regardless of anything but Nadal and Djokovic and their team many times talked about what they prefer. In the end in both 2021 and 2022 Djokovic got what he wanted. It's not rocket science that Nadal plays better in usual sunny day RG conditions.
For example imo Djokovic was unlucky in 2011 FO against Federer but based on his streak he still should have won the match and still huge credit to Federer. But of course conditions helped Federer in the match.
I'm sure there are many other matches conditions benefitted big3.
For example imo Djokovic was unlucky in 2011 FO against Federer but based on his streak he still should have won the match and still huge credit to Federer. But of course conditions helped Federer in the match.
I'm sure there are many other matches conditions benefitted big3.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
It was %50 joke %50 real kind a thing i was talking with @DSH. Looks absurd but he might have tank 1 set.
I like Tsitsipas more he is a fighter.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nadal was no lock for 2021 RG. This is pure fanfiction..
Both Wimbledon 2018 and RG 2021 are Djokovic's alone and Nadal can't get them with moral wins.
RG 2021 is even more clear cut. Djokovic was on a mission and no one including Nadal was stopping him. Now some Nadal fans can make new theories but we don't need to empathize at all with that.
This thread is about 2024 Roland Garros lost anyway.
Both Wimbledon 2018 and RG 2021 are Djokovic's alone and Nadal can't get them with moral wins.
RG 2021 is even more clear cut. Djokovic was on a mission and no one including Nadal was stopping him. Now some Nadal fans can make new theories but we don't need to empathize at all with that.
This thread is about 2024 Roland Garros lost anyway.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
For me, you have that backwards. If the roof really made a difference, Nadal would have played a much worse match than he did in the tournament or got blown out, when it was opposite of that. It would be a case where the different conditions were too much and he couldn't play his usual game, and that is not what happened. I don't know even why this is still a thing for Nadal fans tbh.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Djokovic is the best denadalizer the sport has ever seen. Yes it doesn't always work at Roland Garros. But anyone would be totally stupid to bank on any other tennis player than Djokovic to take down Nadal. 2021 was superb performance by both but Djokovic was on a mission to stop Nadal getting the lead. And what a glorious run it was. From getting thumped in Serbia 1 to going to Rome and playing 2 matches in a day on Saturday and winning both in 6 hrs. Then going to final vs Nadal and giving him a bread stick. Then winning Serbia 2 and telling his entire nation that let's get that Roland Garros.
Completely poetic. Not one thing needs to change. That rocky 4 scream was just for getting ready for the big fight ahead. boom
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Djokovic did not really have the momentum except for the earlier part of the match. Djokovic came out strong in the first set and won that, but then Nadal turned the momentum around and was the better player in the second set and seemed to be so during the third set also, but didn't take his set points in the third. The next day, Nadal started strong and won the fourth set, and seemed to be playing better in the fifth set, enough for Djokovic to growl in anger at his box at one point. More break points went for Nadal, and he eventually lost.
Momentum wise, Djokovic started the match strong and won the first set. The rest of the match, Nadal seemed to have the momentum until it slipped away at the end, although Nadal started 1-2 down in sets on the second day instead of 2-1 up in sets. And this was in indoor conditions instead of outdoors in the sunshine and heat.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
I said Nadal should have won the match since it is clay and he won last matches against Djokovic regardless of conditions.
I'm not expecting people to accept or believe this kind of things especially if you didn't face similiar things lately.
Those conditions wouldn't have been possible had Nadal and Djokovic was not on same half or in earlier years.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
That is assumption.
Even on clay Djokovic is nadal's worst opponent. He had 6 wins over Nadal on clay.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Djokovic won first and third. Nadal won second and fourth.
Djokovic had break chances first in the fifth and Nadal later in the fifth.
So anyone being objective should say the momentum was on Djokovic's side.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Honestly apart from Serve i can't claim i know much about who will it favour on grass those conditions.
But no doubt that it favoured Djokovic in last RG matches. It must be clear to everyone who watched these 2.
Can't believe even in media some people thought conditions didn't favour Djokovic or other things when their team openly talk about it.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Djokovic had the momentum when they suspended the Wimbledon match, similarly like he had the momentum in 2021 RG after that very brutal 3rd set. Nadal got to rest and reset after that, and come back the next day.
Last edited:
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Not one step back brother.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Anytime where the ball is not jumping up high is better for Djokovic against Nadal. He didn't show up for the 2020 match though.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Strictly speaking, it was an 11pm curfew, and the third set ended at 11:03pm.
Nadal would obviously be better in hot, sunny conditions outdoors, like the heatwave that there was at that time in 2018.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I think Djokovic was playing at super high level in 2020. His game plan was to play shorter rallies. But the night cold weather completely blunted his attack. So the cold night session actually made it far difficult for djokovic to win in 2020.
It's not same as fast hard courts. It's clay. Made even slower and Nadal is best in slowest conditions. 1 look at UTS profile of Nadal can make this obvious analysis correct.
From very fast to very slow it's so gradual. His very fast win % is 75 and very slow 95. Each stage his winning percentage increases by up to 3%
The night session did take away his bounce but gave him far more slow courts to work with. It was better deal for Nadal. Maybe if Djokovic was 10 years younger even then he would have struggled because on slowest courts it's pretty much game over vs Nadal.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
There are reasons why Djokovic down 2-0 against Tsitsipas in final. Did Tsitsipas played out of his mind no.
Like i said i don't expect any fanatic fans to accept these things. I should let it aswell since Nadal won 2022 he himself doesn't talk about it. But they are drawed opposite in both 2021 2022 and organizers side with Djokovic in both cases.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Tsitsipas played incredible tennis
I have no idea why you said he didn't just now. It's your Nadal bias. Not much else.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Yes and that made the GOAT win all the races.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Nadal is the agressor on clay mainly at RG with his forehands even more.
So Djokovic like dead conditions more than Nadal. Maybe it can affect differently aswell due to declined speed but Djokovic started 1-0 in both matches atleast mentally against Nadal. Especially in 2022.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
What where?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
You said didn't tsitsipas have 2-0 up and claimed he didn't play out of his mind. Just here.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Djokovic might be the unbeatable on that close to dead conditions in 2010's. See 2012 where Nadal was at much higher level overall on clay that season.
Even at Rome sometimes matches played at night that also one of the reason why Djokovic is more successfull at Rome.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
Tsitsipas is good player but you will see that in most day matches Djokovic makes more errors. Slower conditions help his defence and timing for his depth. Nadal like lively day condtions on clay.
I don't think Djokovic was near to his level against Nadal after first atleast.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Rome is not same as RG. It's far smaller court center court. One of the smallest courts I have seen. While rg is second largest court in the world. Far more space to defend on that cc.
And Rome is bo3. Not bo5. Completely different ballgame.
Djokovic is 2011 might have won in 2020 conditions. But he got super fast conditions in RG that year. So we don't always get what we want. At the end of the day Djokovic also got trade off in night conditions. His strokes didn't penetrate the surface vs Nadal as much as they would in June sunny day.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Night is good for most hard court players because they will get more out of serve return balance.
That's not the same as courts becoming dead slow, which they can, and then getting whatever small advantage is for not.
Tsitsipas is amazing clay player. But he himself can generate immensely pace at night. Your counter is far simpler. 1 year back in 2020 RG semis Djokovic faced tsitsipas again. He won 2 sets which was semi day conditions and lost next 2 in night conditions to tsitsipas who loved getting more time to hit through.
So day or night , Djokovic beat tsitsipas both times in five tough sets. It didn't give Nole some magical powers.
Phenomenal
Hall of Fame
One thing to add, shame(for us) that we didn't get Nadal - Djokovic after 2017. 2020 was exception year. In all other finals Nadal played at usual RG conditions. But for his luck they twice meet opposite side of the draw like Goran admitted after 2020. And i know you very well know the conditions since the first day of their careers : )
Similar threads
- Poll
- Deleted member 629564
- General Pro Player Discussion
