Roland Garros 2024 entry list is out

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Nadal is the agressor on clay mainly at RG with his forehands even more.

So Djokovic like dead conditions more than Nadal. Maybe it can affect differently aswell due to declined speed but Djokovic started 1-0 in both matches atleast mentally against Nadal. Especially in 2022.
Djokovic doesn't like dead conditions although he can play in about any condition. He prefers it faster but on a hot day on clay, Nadal's topspin is hard to deal with. It's better on a cooler day like Soderling caught him on a damp, cool day.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic doesn't like dead conditions although he can play in about any condition. He prefers it faster but on a hot day on clay, Nadal's topspin is hard to deal with. It's better on a cooler day like Soderling caught him on a damp, cool day.
Djokovic can play in every condition but he is far more effective in medium and fast conditions than slow conditions.

While Nadal is gradually increasing his win percentage the slower the surface goes. It's not even an opinion. It's supported by stats.

Now anyone not knowing this, they can get every match statted on uts. You just have to look.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I just want to see Nadal at RG. I really don't think he should get a special seeding, but don't care if he does. No matter where he's seeded or which round he loses, this is probably it for him at RG. I'll soak it up no matter his seed, his opponent, or whatever round he exits.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I think Djokovic was playing at super high level in 2020. His game plan was to play shorter rallies. But the night cold weather completely blunted his attack. So the cold night session actually made it far difficult for djokovic to win in 2020.

It's not same as fast hard courts. It's clay. Made even slower and Nadal is best in slowest conditions. 1 look at UTS profile of Nadal can make this obvious analysis correct.

From very fast to very slow it's so gradual. His very fast win % is 75 and very slow 95. Each stage his winning percentage increases by up to 3%

The night session did take away his bounce but gave him far more slow courts to work with. It was better deal for Nadal. Maybe if Djokovic was 10 years younger even then he would have struggled because on slowest courts it's pretty much game over vs Nadal.
I think it was more than that. Something was off with Djokovic from the beginning. He served like 40% for the 1st set and a half, made a ton of errors and just played unsually bad for his standards. Personally, I think it was something physical going on being that he did get a massage on the changeovers a couple of times in the tournament. Yea the conditions were dead slow so it really wasn't all that great for Djokovic like people thought it would be. It ended up being better for Nadal.
 

Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
Djokovic doesn't like dead conditions although he can play in about any condition. He prefers it faster but on a hot day on clay, Nadal's topspin is hard to deal with. It's better on a cooler day like Soderling caught him on a damp, cool day.
from mentally 1-0 especially in 2022, i meant that they openly talked about what they prefer. It's clear regardless.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
I think it was more than that. Something was off with Djokovic from the beginning. He served like 40% for the 21st set and a half, made a ton of errors and just played unsually bad for his standards. Personally, I think it was something physical going on being that he did take get massage on the changeovers a couple of times in the tournament. Yea the ocnditions were dead slow so it really wasn't all that great for Djokovic like people thought it would be. It ended up being better for Nadal.
Exactly. Before this match all we thought was low bounce advantage Djokovic but no one considered lower speed a factor at all.

I get that his serving might be a bit off but from groundstrokes I thought he played very well. And didn't see any physical discomfort. He outlasted tsitsipas just 2 days back and looked physically fit to me. As fit as anyone could be post pandemic break ofcourse. Everyone kept getting injured in 2020/2021 due to pandemic breaks and the bubbles interrupting their routine fitness.
 

Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
Djokovic can play in every condition but he is far more effective in medium and fast conditions than slow conditions.

While Nadal is gradually increasing his win percentage the slower the surface goes. It's not even an opinion. It's supported by stats.

Now anyone not knowing this, they can get every match statted on uts. You just have to look.
You are simplfying with that. It's not that clear same court can play differently in different conditions. Also i'm not sure how accurate their court speed numbers if true at all.
Other things should be taken into consideration.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal was no lock for 2021 RG. This is pure fanfiction..

Both Wimbledon 2018 and RG 2021 are Djokovic's alone and Nadal can't get them with moral wins.

RG 2021 is even more clear cut. Djokovic was on a mission and no one including Nadal was stopping him. Now some Nadal fans can make new theories but we don't need to empathize at all with that.

This thread is about 2024 Roland Garros lost anyway.
The weather obviously stopped Nadal.
If the first semi-final ended an hour, hour and a half earlier, Nadal would have played his semi-final against Djokovic with that length of time in sunny weather and would have dispatched the Serb quickly.
Unfortunately for the Spanish player, the first semifinal lasted longer than expected and his match against Djokovic did not have much time left with sunny weather.
:(
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
You are simplfying with that. It's not that clear same court can play differently in different conditions. Also i'm not sure how accurate their court speed numbers if true at all.
Other things should be taken into consideration.
Yes their will be always some contention about court speed. I trust UTS far more than eye tests.

For example the Madrid courts run far faster than IW due to height. But if I move madrid to October when it's pretty cold then even that will be slow.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Exactly. Before this match all we thought was low bounce advantage Djokovic but no one considered lower speed a factor at all.

I get that his serving might be a bit off but from groundstrokes I thought he played very well. And didn't see any physical discomfort. He outlasted tsitsipas just 2 days back and looked physically fit to me. As fit as anyone could be post pandemic break ofcourse. Everyone kept getting injured in 2020/2021 due to pandemic breaks and the bubbles interrupting their routine fitness.
He made way too many forehand errors off the ground for his standards. He just looked "off" imo. He played much better in the 3rd set than the 1st two sets though.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
He made way too many forehand errors off the ground for his standards. He just looked "off" imo. He played much better in the 3rd set than the 1st two sets though.
Nadal dropped intensity in the third. But I think Djokovic was just not having best conditions to play. The gap was huge that day. Even if Djokovic played less conservative then it's going to be some similar result.
 

Phenomenal

Hall of Fame
Exactly. Before this match all we thought was low bounce advantage Djokovic but no one considered lower speed a factor at all.

I get that his serving might be a bit off but from groundstrokes I thought he played very well. And didn't see any physical discomfort. He outlasted tsitsipas just 2 days back and looked physically fit to me. As fit as anyone could be post pandemic break ofcourse. Everyone kept getting injured in 2020/2021 due to pandemic breaks and the bubbles interrupting their routine fitness.
Nadal dropped intensity in the third. But I think Djokovic was just not having best conditions to play. The gap was huge that day. Even if Djokovic played less conservative then it's going to be some similar result.
He faced the Indoor Goat, Indoor Clay GOAT.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
He faced the Indoor Goat, Indoor Clay GOAT.
No idea what you mean by that. Nole faced Nadal in September? In very cold day on slow clay.

The temperature for that match was 15/16 degrees Celsius making it dead but slow. While the slice and other good things that come with indoor hard courts were not available.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
@NoleFam its so obvious where each of the big 3 strengths lie.

While Federer and Djokovic are pretty much even on fastest surfaces, Fed is very slightly ahead. But the important stat is Fed with his devastating fh is much better than Djokovic on the slowest surfaces.

While Nadal is much worse than Fedkovic on fastest surfaces but as surfaces slow down, his win % increase dramatically where at the slowest ends, he is virtually unbeatable.

2020 was not an advantage for Djokovic to play in such conditions. Let's not forget it was in September, at the very end unlike in Summer. And then at night conditions.

Screenshot-2024-04-19-at-12-36-46-PM.png
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
@NoleFam its so obvious where each of the big 3 strengths lie.

While Federer and Djokovic are pretty much even on fastest surfaces, Fed is very slightly ahead. But the important stat is Fed with his devastating fh is much better than Djokovic on the slowest surfaces.

While Nadal is much worse than Fedkovic on fastest surfaces but as surfaces slow down, his win % increase dramatically where at the slowest ends, he is virtually unbeatable.

2020 was not an advantage for Djokovic to play in such conditions. Let's not forget it was in September, at the very end unlike in Summer. And then at night conditions.

Screenshot-2024-04-19-at-12-36-46-PM.png
Yea I agree with this except that part about Federer being much better than Djokovic on the very slow surfaces. Not sure where they are getting that data but Djokovic has a higher win percentage in RG, Rome and Monte Carlo, the slowest surfaces on tour. They have an equal win percentage in Madrid which is faster than those 3.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Yea I agree with this except that part about Federer being much better than Djokovic on the very slow surfaces. Not sure where they are getting that data but Djokovic has a higher win percentage in RG, Rome and Monte Carlo, the slowest surfaces on tour. They have an equal win percentage in Madrid which is faster than those 3.
You are right but the UTS also mentions the matches which it considered was played on slow and medium slow surfaces. Some tournaments played faster due to less rains while other years same tournament played slower.

2020 is very interesting. It's the slowest UTS considers a RG since 2005. 2020 was largely played in cold and rainy conditions.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
You are right but the UTS also mentions the matches which it considered was played on slow and medium slow surfaces. Some tournaments played faster due to less rains while other years same tournament played slower.

2020 is very interesting. It's the slowest UTS considers a RG since 2005. 2020 was largely played in cold and rainy conditions.
UTS is a great site (I'll be glad when the owner can figure out the new formula to combat the ATP changing it's configuration), but every now and then there can be some stats that don't add up. I would say this is one of those cases.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
UTS is a great site (I'll be glad when the owner can figure out the new formula to combat the ATP changing it's configuration), but every now and then there can be some stats that don't add up. I would say this is one of those cases.
I will double check but I trust it more than ttw.
 
It's done. Wimbledon has abandoned special seedings since 2022 or 2023. It's according to rankings now.
I liked the old system. It wasn't perfect - two years is a long time in tennis - but given how short the grass court season is, it always seemed to make sense.

That being said, all the surfaces play so close to each other now, maybe it isn't needed. But I would not be opposed to a more clay -weighted seeding for RG.
 
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