Roland Garros 2024 Ladies SF - [1] Swiatek v [3] Gauff

Who will win?


  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

Zachary

Rookie
Iga’s average serve speed at RG has gone up almost 10mph since last year (102mph -> 111mph). Gill Gross talked about it today.

She’s not just holding the line and remaining the best at RG she is literally mutating and getting quite a bit better.

There are areas of her game that can further improve, too (net game for example). It’s pretty scary to think she might still be 2-3 years off her clay peak.

As a Gauff and Iga fan I’m obviously not happy with how the match ended. I wanted a better match. But you can tell even for an incredibly mentally strong player like Coco that Iga is already partially living rent free in her head and forcing her to retreat from her natural game, even a player with as many tools for winning as Gauff. That’s a scary level of dominance.

You could forgive Iga for relying on this aura that she has earnt through her incredible play win rate but it’s interesting to see she is not relying on that she is getting even better.

The level and depth of competition in the WTA right now has created a monster in Swiatek.
I havent seen any incredible play during osaka match.. None of the girls , noskova,potapova,voundrusova, gauff did play like japanese, so iga could crashed them whatever she wanted..

On reddit it was topic about saba's forehand being faster than sinners and millions of iga bots hated on sabas that faster doesnt mean more powerful, because only igas is entitled to being desribed as" playing like man"
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Are you even watching WTA tennis, or just tuning in for the big matches. In order...

Coco's mental strength is a myth. She literally started crying in the last match over a questionable judgement call from the umpire (at 0-15, so hardly a key moment). And if you watch her other matches, she regularly starts to get in her own head and start making bad mistakes (wild forehands, a ton of double faults, poor shot selection in big spots). People think Coco is mentally strong because her best asset is her defense, and that is something that is easy to maintain even in pressure moments. Chasing after balls is chasing after balls, and you will rarely get "too tight" to do that. As for her tools, that's her main tool. Getting everything back. And her backhand is pretty good. But her "tools for winning" simply boil down to making her opponents choke. And in the WTA...

Are you kidding with the level and depth? Gauff walked into this semi, and then got trashed. Just like in Australia, just like in other big tournaments where she looks good until she plays one of the few decent players on tour. Jasmine Paolini is in a grand slam final. Let that sink in. Zidansek was in the French Semis two years ago, and Linette was in the AO semis that year. I could go on all day...


Ha, what? Aside from the fact that you wouldn't say that about Nadal's shots, you actually contradicted yourself. They didn't have racquet and string tech back then that was conducive to big spin, and Seles hit two-handed off both wings, which is naturally flatter than a one-handed shot. So if anything Seles was hitting pretty flat, and hitting with precision. She was regularly returning Graff's deep and low slices to deep and difficult spots, and generating all of her own pace as those slices don't give her much to work with. If you actually understood the game you were watching, you would understand these things.

And, again, a physically frail Graf was able to hang with the power and speed of a young Serena, so don't clown around with the suggestion she would struggle with Swiatek.

I am interested in your comments about defensive tennis being easier to maintain in pressure moments. It’s a unique viewpoint but I’m not sure I agree.

For me, executing the shot tolerance required to use defence as a weapon in big moments in matches is very mentally taxing and affected by pressure. Playing defence is about more than just reacting and chasing balls. It requires a lot of forethought and also planning in real time during the point. Great defenders are relying on their skills of memorising opponents play patterns and using anticipation as an aide to their courtspeed.

Then there is the issue of what to do when you get to the ball and focusing on shot technique, creative counter-punching and shot selection at end defensive range where it is often most difficult to execute. These are all acute skills that break down with the addition of pressure in big moments.

Additionally, one of the first things to go in pressure moments are the legs / footwork. I think defending the court and using defensive point construction in big moments has become a bit of an under-appreciated art form. Because it is one of the skills that has developed the most in tennis over the last 20 years, it is now getting taken for granted imo.

Coco’s mental toughness for me is about a lot of factors on and off court. We’ve all looked on in disgust at mental midgets like Kyrgios, Shapovalov etc etc and that’s what makes Gauff such a refreshing change to me.

She just gets on with it. She seems to never get affected by very tough weather conditions, she was able to deal with insane home-grown expectation and hype at a very young age and almost took the pressure and used it to her advantage. Very impressive to me how she dealt with the insane hype heaped on her by the media. Even more so given she is a player with a home major and made her biggest breakthrough there. It’s one thing to be good at a very young age, but to then carry that burden of expectation and hype over a course of years while still developing and pull through while barely being out of her teens is super impressive imo. It’s more the type of achievement I would expect a player to do much later in life with more experience like when Barty did it.

I also admire her ability to figure her way out of tough spots in matches. She always seems to have a plan A, plan B and plan C. Even when she looks out of a match she can turn it against anyone. Even in the Swiatek match, playing poorly and somewhat overwhelmed she was able to get things back level and take the second set. She is very good at recognising key moments in matches and focusing her level to orchestrate momentum shifts out of nowhere. I think we agree that Coco overall was totally out-thought by Iga in this RG match, though. Credit Iga there.

She is also incredible at maximising her strengths and using those to protect her weaknesses. Again, definitely exposed on this front by Swiatek, but that’s credit again to Swiatek who has become a mental and physical Giant at RG.

Gauff’s forehand is the elephant in the room. It’s scary what she has already been able to achieve maximising the other elements of her game with so much growth potential on the forehand wing. She definitely seemed like she felt pressed to go for a lot on that side in the Swiatek match. For stages of the match she was going huge and pulling it off, but the hitches definitely showed when she needed to go aggressive on the FH for very long periods of time against a player like Swiatek with such great shot tolerance, weight of shot and movement.

I wonder what Brad Gilbert has in store in that regard? I rate him highly as a strategic and mental coach but not sure he wants to take on the technical changes required to totally overhaul the Gauff forehand. I guess we have to “watch this space” on that front!
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I havent seen any incredible play during osaka match.. None of the girls , noskova,potapova,voundrusova, gauff did play like japanese, so iga could crashed them whatever she wanted..

On reddit it was topic about saba's forehand being faster than sinners and millions of iga bots hated on sabas that faster doesnt mean more powerful, because only igas is entitled to being desribed as" playing like man"
You’ve made some very interesting comments on here. I don’t agree with your assessment of Swiatek but have enjoyed reading your comments.

Based on your ability to analyse matches, I think you would be scoffing at Reddit tennis. For sure there would be a lot of garbage written there.
 

pcplum

Semi-Pro
Ha, what? Aside from the fact that you wouldn't say that about Nadal's shots, you actually contradicted yourself. They didn't have racquet and string tech back then that was conducive to big spin, and Seles hit two-handed off both wings, which is naturally flatter than a one-handed shot. So if anything Seles was hitting pretty flat, and hitting with precision. She was regularly returning Graff's deep and low slices to deep and difficult spots, and generating all of her own pace as those slices don't give her much to work with. If you actually understood the game you were watching, you would understand these things.
Seles actually does try to hit topspin forehands on that video but usually they lame and land somewhere around the service line. Plenty examples throughout the video but the case in point is 6-2, 1-1, 40-30 when they have an extended rally and Monica hits countless spinny forehands mostly at the service line and Steffi just keeps slicing them back. It's like a slo-mo and if you teleported Seles with her equipment to RG 2024 her lame topspin forehands would be massacred, not to mention her second serve - big returners of today's game would have a field day with her second serve. I'm glad someone posted that video coz it's obvious that contrary to your assertions they weren't some superior athletes to the current top bunch. Monica with her "frying pan" (your words) would at best act as a cannon fodder to Świątek in the early rounds.
 
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Connor35

Professional
Coco's mental strength is a myth. She literally started crying in the last match over a questionable judgement call from the umpire (at 0-15, so hardly a key moment).

Mental strength isn’t not crying. It’s what you do afterward: Coco broke. Her only break of Iga in the match.
 

Zachary

Rookie
You’ve made some very interesting comments on here. I don’t agree with your assessment of Swiatek but have enjoyed reading your comments.

Based on your ability to analyse matches, I think you would be scoffing at Reddit tennis. For sure there would be a lot of garbage written there.
on reddit there is a lot of garbage already. But if you want to think that coco or potapova played like Osaka , thats not garbage at all.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
I call that BS. Iga was not able to play her best, the same way she cannot play her best against Ostapenko. Quite simply put, she is not allowed to. Or are you saying Ostapenko just happens to redline everytime?

Iga has a solid game, no question, but she can be overpowered and hit off the court. She is consistent, but her best is not the best on the tour. Her base however, especially on clay is superior, she gets all my credit for that.
The way I see it, Swiatek's best is the best on tour because it garners more victories and titles than anyone else's best at the moment.
While Ostapenko's best may beat Swiatek, it doesn't beat the rest of the tour with the reliability and consistency that Iga's does (or are we saying that when she loses after beating Swiatek, she's suddenly not at her best?). That's the comparison that seems most fair to me, instead of concluding that Ostapenko's best (or Rybakina's ) is the best on the tour. I've never really trusted analyses based on an abstract idea of "level", it's all about match-ups and, ultimately, about the percentage of players you can beat with your game.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
The way I see it, Swiatek's best is the best on tour because it garners more victories and titles than anyone else's best at the moment.
While Ostapenko's best may beat Swiatek, it doesn't beat the rest of the tour with the reliability and consistency that Iga's does (or are we saying that when she loses after beating Swiatek, she's suddenly not at her best?). That's the comparison that seems most fair to me, instead of concluding that Ostapenko's best (or Rybakina's ) is the best on the tour. I've never really trusted analyses based on an abstract idea of "level", it's all about match-ups and, ultimately, about the percentage of players you can beat with your game.
Do you think Swiatek is at her best on clay right now, or can she get better? I have a feeling she can get even better. It’s not guaranteed that she will, but there are still areas where she can improve, particularly at net. Would you agree with that? Pretty scary thought, Iga developing her net game and robbing opponents of even more time.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Do you think Swiatek is at her best on clay right now, or can she get better? I have a feeling she can get even better. It’s not guaranteed that she will, but there are still areas where she can improve, particularly at net. Would you agree with that? Pretty scary thought, Iga developing her net game and robbing opponents of even more time.
I think she can get better, but I feel like she'll only improve drastically if someone causes an upset and beats her here playing an attacking game like Osaka. But she could, of course, surprise me and develop those tools you mentioned through sheer willpower and the motivation to win Wimbledon.
 

volleyandfun

Hall of Fame
That's all good and well looking at H2H records but that doesn't paint the clearest picture. As I said, if Swiatek somehow lost to Paolini she wouldn't even hold a slam right now. I wouldn't call that a a "top 1 by far".
Being ahead of #2 by 3700+ points I call it "top 1 by far", take it or leave it.
And if we speak of slams, she slammed doors on her opponents in all finals she played.
Again, take or leave it.
 
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