Rome 2017 final: Novak Djokovic vs Alexander Zverev

[Meles]

Yeah, I don't quite understand it either. You're probably right and it mostly comes down to the conditions. Rome is a lot more south than Paris: warmer and drier. Paris in the spring tends to be cooler and more humid.

@Poisoned Slice your beat for Z at RG

 

[veroniquem]

Maybe he will or won't but comparing this to Djokovic's loss is silly. The age gap between Federer and Zverev is almost 16 years (in tennis terms that is atleast 2 generations later) I'll give Federer ths year an edge especially on grass.

I couldn't care less about the age gap. Fed has proved that he's completely immune to aging by winning AO, IW and Miami this year, like it's nothing.
So please, don't bring up the age card at this point, not taking the bait!!!

 

[6-3 6-0]

Weakeraerers heading for cover with NextGen asserting on clay

Where have your fellow "Weakeravic"ers went? into hiding? LOL

P.S. No offense to the decent fans.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

The draw for RG..............When is it out?

 

[6-3 6-0]

I couldn't care less about the age gap. Fed has proved that he's completely immune to aging by winning AO, IW and Miami this year, like it's nothing.
So please, don't bring up the age card at this point, not taking the bait!!!

Ofcourse everyone ages and decline except Fed

 

[veroniquem]

Ofcourse everyone ages and decline except Fed

Yep. Where is that paper he signed

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Went to the final!

Zverev POUNDS the ball, and has nerves of steel. What a great experience!

How was the crowd btw? were they nice to Alex?

 

[marc45]

Carl Bialik‏Verified account @CarlBialik
The complete list of singles tennis titles won by men born 1989 or later at majors, Masters, tour finals and Olympics: A. Zverev (Rome 2017)

 

[mike danny]

Maybe he will or won't but comparing this to Djokovic's loss is silly. The age gap between Federer and Zverev is almost 16 years (in tennis terms that is atleast 2 generations later) but still I'll give Federer this year an edge especially on grass.

More like 3 generations later. I consider Nadal and Djokovic from different generations compared to Fed.

 

[Meles]

Maybe he will or won't but comparing this to Djokovic's loss is silly. The age gap between Federer and Zverev is almost 16 years (in tennis terms that is atleast 2 generations later) but still I'll give Federer this year an edge especially on grass.

and this is based on a win over a struggling with his body federer in 16 ?
if fed is healthy, he's a clear fav on grass ...

Zbot will be unbreakable on grass with his massively improved serve game this year. Good chance of another match in Halle plus if Zverev doesn't do well at RG he's a lock to wildcard into Stuttgart where Mischa is already in the draw.

This Zedbot can return.

 

[6-3 6-0]

Yep. Where is that paper he signed

Not sure what you mean by that or is this another subtle doping accusation? lol

 

[Meles]

We'll see
If they meet on grass, I'm betting on Zverev.
ETA: he's about to become one

He's a lock save injury issues. He'll be serving like Kyrgios in two more years at the rate he's going.

 

[abmk]

Zbot will be unbreakable on grass with his massively improved serve game this year. Good chance of another match in Halle plus if Zverev doesn't do well at RG he's a lock to wildcard into Stuttgart where Mischa is already in the draw.

This Zedbot can return.

84% service games won this year is hardly unbreakable.
Its just peak Hewitt-Murray territory, not even peak Nadal-Djokovic territory and obviously not fed-roddick-goran territory in terms of holding ...

 

[Omega_7000]

I couldn't care less about the age gap. Fed has proved that he's completely immune to aging by winning AO, IW and Miami this year, like it's nothing.
So please, don't bring up the age card at this point, not taking the bait!!!

Dont bring up the "age card"?...lol

 

[6-3 6-0]

Zbot will be unbreakable on grass with his massively improved serve game this year. Good chance of another match in Halle plus if Zverev doesn't do well at RG he's a lock to wildcard into Stuttgart where Mischa is already in the draw.

This Zedbot can return.

I am just saying Fed will have an edge provided he continues his form, not that he is a lock. Zverev is an upcoming rising star (probably) so its going to be very exciting for sure. Hoping for a rematch of Halle last year but in finals, not SF

 

[Meles]

Where have your fellow "Weakeravic"ers went? into hiding? LOL

P.S. No offense to the decent fans.

I've complete respect for Djokovic and what he did in 2015-2016. He's making all the moves of late (Agassi hiring) to get back his game to a decent level, but its getting crowded at the top this year. Nole could draw Zverev R16 at RG and he'd be in a world of hurt with his ranking and ongoing draws. Very likely to be 3 after RG. He can keep in the top 4 if Wawrinka does not outperform him through Wimbledon.

 

[Meles]

I am just saying Fed will have an edge provided he continues his form, not that he is a lock. Zverev is an upcoming rising star (probably) so its going to be very exciting for sure. Hoping for a rematch of Halle last year but in finals, not SF

Fed needs some good matches. SF with Zed and final with Thiemerer.

 

[6-3 6-0]

I've complete respect for Djokovic and what he did in 2015-2016. He's making all the moves of late (Agassi hiring) to get back his game to a decent level, but its getting crowded at the top this year. Nole could draw Zverev R16 at RG and he'd be in a world of hurt with his ranking and ongoing draws. Very likely to be 3 after RG. He can keep in the top 4 if Wawrinka does not outperform him through Wimbledon.

My post had nothing to do with Djokovic (He is a legend) but with your posts constantly denigrating Fed and name calling. You get mad when trolls does it to your Djokovic but then you do it yourself when no one provokes you.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

I'm catching up here but.... ZVEREV!!!!

 

[6-3 6-0]

Fed needs some good matches. SF with Zed and final with Thiemerer.

I am fine with that. Think Dimitrov is also playing Halle? Or is it Stuttgart? I'd like to see a meeting with him as well.

 

[Deleted member 742196]

Little edgy He is 30 years old and grumpy half of the time on court. Snearing at innocent ballboys. He did it today too to a poor kid. Complained about the court, the wind and whatever. His only problem was Zverev!

Looks like Zverev has grown a lot! I have a son that is growing and they go through different phaces, have to think its great to improve to the better, and forget about stuff that wasnt so good. He seems really strong mentally now, maybe because he has a better attitude he can keep his focus better. Really impressive in the mental departement on court I had to watch the match one more time. Novak is a mess compared. Rafa too can be really nervous in big moments even being two sets up sweating like Nigeria Falls when serving the match out.

Niagra Falls?

 

[BeatlesFan]

Sasha wins a Masters before Raonic, Kei or Dimitrov. Still in a state of shock, but to all those who tipped him a a future great player, a tip of the hat to y'all.

 

[Meles]

84% service games won this year is hardly unbreakable.
Its just peak Hewitt-Murray territory, not even peak Nadal-Djokovic territory and obviously not fed-roddick-goran territory in terms of holding ...

On hard courts this year Zverev is 87.2% and Feddy is a fine 90.9%. In 2016 Zverev was 80.7% on hard courts. That's alarming improvement of 6.5% on hard courts. Zverev is improving by the week and he just did hold serve with no break points against a fine clay court returner. In 2016 Zverev Zed was 82.5% on grass so he'll probably be nipping around 90% this year with a betterer return game than Federer.

@veroniquem check it out.

 

[Meles]

I am fine with that. Think Dimitrov is also playing Halle? Or is it Stuttgart? I'd like to see a meeting with him as well.

Maybe Stuttgart. Grigs is in Queens sadly. Fed protege Pouille will be in Halle.

 

[veroniquem]

On hard courts this year Zverev is 87.2% and Feddy is a fine 90.9%. In 2016 Zverev was 80.7% on hard courts. That's alarming improvement of 6.5% on hard courts. Zverev is improving by the week and he just did hold serve with no break points against a fine clay court returner. In 2016 Zverev Zed was 82.5% on grass so he'll probably be nipping around 90% this year with a betterer return game than Federer.

@veroniquem check it out.

The improvement is "spectacular", not "alarming"

 

[beast of mallorca]

The draw for RG..............When is it out?

Friday, the 26th

 

[hipolymer]

Did Rafa tank this to cripple Djokovic with extra pressure?

I couldn't watch this. What happned to Pepevic?

Lost to the superior player, backhand, forehand, serve, volley, and human being

 

[falstaff78]

How was the crowd btw? were they nice to Alex?

Yes. Djokovic was the clear favourite (he speaks Italian and gave his post match interview in Italian). But the crowd applauded Zverev when appropriate and gave him a very warm reception when he won.

 

[Lord Anomander]

I didn't read the whole thread, but is Zverev considered as one of the favorites to win Wimbledon?

I'm actually looking more forward to the grass season than to RG. I think Federer is the favorite. Depending on his form and health Murray might get going again in 2017. Dimitrov and Kyrgios (if healthy and motivated) are my favorites to reach the final. Raonic could be dangerous and Djokovic is a huge question mark still.

I don't see Zverev get past the QF, which is a great result though.

 

[veroniquem]

Not sure what you mean by that or is this another subtle doping accusation? lol

Faust? You know the legend? Sold his soul for eternal youth? Signed a contract with the devil

 

[Meles]

My post had nothing to do with Djokovic (He is a legend) but with your posts constantly denigrating Fed and name calling. You get mad when trolls does it to your Djokovic but then you do it yourself when no one provokes you.

I think very highly of Fed's game and have said so many times even predicting his run at AO. Its his own fans that crap all over Fed's game in 2015/2016 and call everything a weakera. I'd be very glad to see Djokoray will get back their game and mix it up too. My Djokovic? You must have some weakeraerer glasses on if you think I like Djokovic lol (respect what he did and may do, but don't want him to win most of the time.)

I'm just excited to see a player who may step up out of the NextGen and will challenge on grass, plus might be much stronger once we swing back to hard courts. Til now it was just the unreliable Kyrgios that I had any hopes of having legs once hard courts resume. Federer is a strong contender for Wimbledon and the favorite in my mind for US Open.

This is going to be one of the most remarkable years in tennis historically with the NextGen vs Big 5 age gap plus Grigor. Zverev today and with his stats performance is really backing this year up as a great transition year now.

 

[Meles]

Yep. Where is that paper he signed

LOL. Fed is Dorian Gray not Faust. Always looking in the mirror/picture, but ageless.

 

[Meles]

Sasha wins a Masters before Raonic, Kei or Dimitrov. Still in a state of shock, but to all those who tipped him a a future great player, a tip of the hat to y'all.

That 2nd serve points won is a shocker to be sure. Zverev early in the match was generally serving around a 180 kph clip on 2nd serves and I'm sure he risked those DFs to stop Djokovic's excellent return game. Lol, Nole must have felt he was facing all first serves. He backed off much more in the 2nd set, but still often won off a slow 2nd because it was like a changeup.

 

[Meles]

The improvement is "spectacular", not "alarming"

Its alarming to all the big 4 fans on this site.

 

[Krish872007]

I'll be so pissed if Zverev decides to play that NextGen ATP Final. Focus on qualifying for the real deal - you're 4th in the Race now

 

[Nadalgaenger]

He is a German (born in Hamburg) of Russian parentage. His parents and elder brother Mischa, also a tennis player, emigrated to Germany before he was born. His father, Alexander Zverev Snr used to play tennis for the Soviet Union and is now coaching his younger son.

He speaks German, Russian and English.

I used to live in Germany and the school system very much emphasizes the mastery of English. Northern Europeans in general learn English very well due to the proper focus it gets in schools there.

Also, Zverev trains in Florida so he uses English all the time no doubt.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

I'll be so pissed if Zverev decides to play that NextGen ATP Final. Focus on qualifying for the real deal - you're 4th in the Race now

Agreed. He's the only "big name" the event has but at this point it would almost be an insult for him to play with those "kids."

Who else is even playing it? Coric? Fritz?

 

[The Green Mile]

Yes! Victory for next gen! Well done Zverev. Will watch later.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

The new clay goats arrive in Rome.

I think we'll definitely see these two square off in their fair share of finals over the next few years. Both have to be happy with their weeks. I think if you'd told Thiem that he'd hit Nadal off the court in straight sets he would have taken that proposition, even if it meant getting hammered in the next round.

 

[Krish872007]

Agreed. He's the only "big name" the event has but at this point it would almost be an insult for him to play with those "kids."

Who else is even playing it? Coric? Fritz?

Coric, Chung, Tiafoe in the Top 4 at the moment http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/race-to-milan

But once the Rome points get added on tomorrow, Z will be so far ahead it's not worth bothering about. And if he goes past the 3rd round at RG, even better. Not to mention the fact that his favourite grass season is right round the corner
Not going to overhype him, but his next target should be to reach the Last 16 at a Slam at least and pick up a shed-load of points

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Yes! Victory for next gen! Well done Zverev. Will watch later.

Yeah, I'm glad this is being positively received.

I have absolutely nothing against the Big 4 and really like all of them, though I've rooted against Djokovic since all of this Pepe Imaz stuff got out of hand (did anyone notice Marko's Amor y Paz shirt today?)

Anyway, the game needs new blood, and hopefully they finally have some!

 

[Nadalgaenger]

If Zverev wins his arrogance wont fit in the tennis court

He didn't at all seem arrogant during the trophy presentation. He was very soft-spoken and heaped praise on Djokovic.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Coric, Chung, Tiafoe in the Top 4 at the moment http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/race-to-milan

But once the Rome points get added on tomorrow, Z will be so far ahead it's not worth bothering about. And if he goes past the 3rd round at RG, even better. Not to mention the fact that his favourite grass season is right round the corner
Not going to overhype him, but his next target should be to reach the Last 16 at a Slam at least and pick up a shed-load of points

LOL I love how a guy ranked 120 in the world may qualify for these "Finals"! (Caspar Ruud)

 

[Krish872007]

He didn't at all seem arrogant during the trophy presentation. He was very soft-spoken and heaped praise on Djokovic.

It's a good attitude to have in order to reach the top. Confidence before the match (some call it arrogance), praise afterwards. And a desire to keep meeting and beating the best players. No doubt he'd love another crack at Djoko or Nadal at Roland Garros.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

• Nole d. Zverev 6-1 6-1.

• Zverev to be in Nole's quarter at RG, then say in an interview: "There's a certain Mr. Nole Djokovic in my section. Maybe some of you remember the match a few weeks ago. That's in the back of my mind and to be very fair, that's a very big reason why I am here: to get another shot to be on court with him."

• Zverev to fall in RG before he has that shot.

Interesting prediction. How did that work out for you?

 

[Djokovic2011]

Belated congrats to young Alexander on his 1st Masters title. He served extremely well, hit his backhand superbly and was surprisingly composed throughout - a much deserved victory indeed. As for Novak, I haven't seen all of his previous 96 finals but I can't imagine he played as poorly in any of them as he did today. I guess that's just one of the downsides that comes with getting closer to the dreaded 3-0 - a superb performance one day, a stinker the next. Hopefully with Agassi now in his team to shake things up we'll begin to see some much needed improvements but I think RG will be too soon for them to come to fruition, it'll most likely be sometime later in the summer. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

This just in. Amazing meles stat analysis of Zverev. We have all been asleep at the switch because of Rafa's early shellacing of Zverev at Monte Carlo and his apparent inferiority to Kyrgios at Miami. Zverev has ATG writtin all over him, so this is a big, big match today with Djokovic:

"Interesting comparisons especially Zverev vs Cilic (There is no compariosn between Thiem and Nishikori on clay. Nishikori might still have the game to beat Thiem on clay, but he is much weaker against the field as this year has shown with Nishikori plummeting in the rankings while Thiem has prospered on clay.) They have a similar return level and even this year and last Cilic is still better than Zverev on return, but Zverev is now zooming up on his serve numbers at an alarming rate. In 2016 on hard courts Zverev won 64.2%; so far in 2017 on more return oriented courts Zverev has hit 67.7% serve points won.

Marin Cilic at the same age was just 64.8% for the year. Cilic the last 4 years has been in the 67-68% range. Zverev could do very, very well on hard courts later this year if he continues to improve (a slam dunk at his age.) On clay at Rome and Madrid, Zverev has proven himself king of the servebots. He's brought in the serve game from hard courts and on clay he's a class above the rest of the big players on return with his ability to break (like Cilic.) Zverev at age 20, not even in his prime is already set to surpass Cilic's best years and that is where the comparison ends as Zverev's career is now on a trajectory to eclipse Cilic. Kyrgios at age 20 (two years ago) achieved 67.7% serve points won on hard courts. We know of Zverev's deficiencies and how much room for improvement he has in his serve game (attacking and forehand) plus how much better he is than Kyrgios in so many departments. The super servebot is upon us and its not Kyrgios. On reviewing Zed's stats this morning this is alarmingly good. We have a monster emerging before our eyes this year. Nadal's schooling of a lesser Zverev in Monte Carlo may have thrown us all off the scent. Last year Zverev's stats made a big move up on clay (way ahead of his hard courts) and its happening again.

This kid may put himself on the map as a huge RG contender today."

Absolutely. Think about how much better serves tend to get over time.
The Nadal serve in 2005 vs. the 2010 Nadal serve for example.
Or Federer 2017 vs. Fed 2002 (much better now on serve IMO).

 

[Krish872007]

Belated congrats to young Alexander on his 1st Masters title. He served extremely well, hit his backhand superbly and was surprisingly composed throughout - a much deserved victory indeed. As for Novak, I haven't seen all of his previous 96 finals but I can't imagine he played as poorly in any of them as he did today. I guess that's just one of the downsides that comes with getting closer to the dreaded 3-0 - a superb performance one day, a stinker the next. Hopefully with Agassi now in his team to shake things up we'll begin to see some much needed improvements but I think RG will be too soon for them to come to fruition, it'll most likely be sometime later in the summer. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Good to see you back mate, been a couple of weeks I think?
Big 3-0 coming up tomorrow as a matter of fact! Time does fly

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Belated congrats to young Alexander on his 1st Masters title. He served extremely well, hit his backhand superbly and was surprisingly composed throughout - a much deserved victory indeed. As for Novak, I haven't seen all of his previous 96 finals but I can't imagine he played as poorly in any of them as he did today. I guess that's just one of the downsides that comes with getting closer to the dreaded 3-0 - a superb performance one day, a stinker the next. Hopefully with Agassi now in his team to shake things up we'll begin to see some much needed improvements but I think RG will be too soon for them to come to fruition, it'll most likely be sometime later in the summer. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day.

I don't think Djokovic played that horribly. He just tends to suffer against baseliners like Zverev and Wawrinka that can bully him around. He wasn't able to do to Zverev what he had managed to do to Thiem.

The Zverev groundstrokes were rock solid and he served extremely well (especially on his 2nd serve). Again, to win a final against Novak without facing a break point was something that only Fed had done on the fastest of HC.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

This could happen as with Nadal, but Zverev's form has been even better than his promising start in Monte Carlo. The main difference is Zverev is unloading from both sides since Monte Carlo. He's hitting amazingly hard and with great depth. He won't be as easy to expose.

Everyone is probably a bit over their skis on Djokovic's return to form based on the Thiem match.

Thiem's facebook comments on match sum it up:
"1/6 0/6 versus Novak Djokovic. It’s crazy how thin the line between success and failure is, today Novak showed me that once more. Yesterday I was celebrating and today it came to a bitter end. I am not yet used to play so many matches against so many great player, I was tiered and used up all my energy yesterday. Nevertheless, it has been some incredible good weeks for me and some awesome wins, I am really looking forward to the upcoming challenges, ROLAND GARROS here I come! But first I am heading home charging up my batteries and getting the final finish. Ciao Roma!
#bamos #succsessandfailure #rg2017"

Zverev has had a pretty easy ride with most of his mileage against servebots:
20.05.17 1/2 Alexander Zverev John Isner 6-4, 6-7(5), 6-1 win
19.05.17 1/4 Alexander Zverev Milos Raonic 7-6(4), 6-1 win
18.05.17 3rd round Alexander Zverev Fabio Fognini 6-3, 6-3 win
17.05.17 2nd round Alexander Zverev Viktor Troicki 6-3, 6-4 win
16.05.17 1st round Alexander Zverev Kevin Anderson 6-4, 4-6, 6-4 win

Zverev had a bit of work against Anderson, but two sets with Troicki, smoked Fognini, and finishing off Raonic and Isner 6-1 in the final sets shows he has plenty of gas in the tank. The Isner match really was not all that much work.

Reasons Zverev might win his first match with Djokovic:
1. Its not his first match with Djokovic. They played exhibition match before.
2. an easy ride to the final so he's not some tapped out youngster; he already owned or was a matchup problem for every player in the top half (save Murray.)
3. did not just beat Nadal in the match of his life; Zverev just botted Isner off the court - easy breezy
4. almost has a servebot class serve and Djokovic has not handled big tall servers well in the past
5. has extreme reach and is very hard to ace with his reach which is very different from Thiem. Zverev will get hot on return and break some in this match.
6. vaguely similar ground game to Djokovic that takes time from opponents. Combine this with Zverev having a huge serve and hot first return from time to time and its going to be trouble with Zverev starting in the driver's seat for the majority of points.
7. Nole's intimidation stare down tactics won't bother Zverev in the least. Foggy went crazy in their match and Zverev ripped out to a 4-0 lead in the 2nd.
8. Zverev trolled Fognini with some impossibly hard ground strokes from both sides at the beginning of their match (Fognini style). Zverev highly likely to out Nole Nole by dominating the rallies from the outset with great depth. Something to get into the tactical mind of Djokovic and undermine his game. Impressive, probably not sustainable, but Nole frustration may happen.
9. Zverev will play his best match of the tournament in the final (its what he does) so even if you've watched Roman Zed, you've not seen his best.
10. loves dogs and children and will be a mission against Djoko from whom the elderly, children, and small animals are best advised to keep clear.

Zverev in two sets mainly because he'll dominate on serve and return keeping his own movement from being exposed, plus stellar big match performance.

Brilliant stuff.

You were spot on in many of these points. I think points 3 and 6 were clearly in evidence in the win today.

I also find it prophetic that you included the angry Nole/ball boy meme. He got a warning for snapping something vulgar off in Serbian, right? A Meme would be greatly appreciated if you can find it!