Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
I think Musetti must not have paid the mob or something
Draws Djoko at the French, Wimbledon, and Olympics last year. Now drawing Carlos. The organizers must really hate this guy
Rome 2025 FINAL - Sinner vs Alcaraz
- Thread starter Hitman
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I think Musetti must not have paid the mob or something
Draws Djoko at the French, Wimbledon, and Olympics last year. Now drawing Carlos. The organizers must really hate this guy
ChrisJR3264
Legend
Yes. That has zero weight to make a grand slam determination or projection to winning a grand slam.
Hence why I say bring more to the table. That’s junk.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
I didn't say that, Mr OCD. I said he won more matches on grass than anyone else in 2024 and that is an absolute fact you cannot argue with. Draw your own conclusions from it, but the numbers are there
dking68
G.O.A.T.
How far you think he goes in RG?
ChrisJR3264
Legend
If I’m alcaraz or sinner I would not want to draw Djoko in the qtrs on clay if his level is there.
I don’t think Djoko has the juice to win the whole thing. But if he can get through the first week in straight sets I think he can muster up a QF win.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
If he gets out of the first week then all bets are off
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Told you he isn’t make QF on clay this year. I think he doesn’t even make it second week this year. And I remain strongly on this prediction.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
laid out what he wanted to do and did it
said after the match it was his best strategic match ever
btw, Jimmy Arias, calling the match for Tennis Channel unfortunately, should have read this article beforehand or he wouldn't have been so stunned Alcaraz had a solid gameplan, stuck to it, and won with it
ChrisJR3264
Legend
Need to see the draw.
Him being gassed today with no juice in his legs after the first set brings concern.
Both him and Carlos SHOULD make the final. Like I mentioned above they’re in their own tier above the rest.
But if Jannik shows any stamina issues with a tough draw, he could be prone to a QF/SF upset. Not saying definitely - but all will watch the Tommy Paul film and attack his backhand repeatedly deep in the court.
Again. Should make the final.
Upsets happen especially if stamina is a concern.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Arias said the other day that Sinner might be the best player ever. He got sucked on board the hype train too
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Who wouldn't if the champagne was already on ice?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Well today, Alcaraz kept serving out wide with heavy topspin and Sinner hardly could get a return in - that’s a glaring weakness. And he knows it as well.
I’m not confident on his CYGS chances but I still believe he’s due a huge win over Carlos this year, and it happens at a slam. Leaning Wimbledon and USO
ChrisJR3264
Legend
The only prediction you got right this year was Draper. And that was throwing darts
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Still strongly believe in that pick and you heard me repeating it over and over. Call me out if I’m wrong but I really don’t see him making QF.
And the fils prediction, I believe it was due fair credit despite losing the prediction. I felt it the day before and made a thread on it
dking68
G.O.A.T.
@ChrisJR3264 Djoker makes a SF at best at Wimbledon. He plays no slam finals. Probably retires end of this year or early next year.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Musetti can beat Djoker and Alcaraz; he needs to fine-tune his shots and make fewer errors. He almost beat Djokovic at RG in 2021 but ran out of steam. He seem to be fitter now.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
He says he'll retire after the 2028 Olympics.
ChrisJR3264
Legend
Lol you’re taking credit for a fils prediction to beat Raz when he lost? Come on dude. Almost doesn’t cut it
ChrisJR3264
Legend
Mussetti game is built for clay and second week of grass.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Fair prediction and he choked it. He had him beat. But anyways I accept the lost but I believe it was a fair prediction that was thread worthy
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
marc45
G.O.A.T.
yeah, he has a real recency bias
I know some people like him because he's willing to criticize players but he had a bad week in the end and shouldn't be calling a match of this caliber
I'd only add I think TC was stuck a bit...they had people over there to call matches live instead of their Santa Monica studio (had the money with no live RG coverage anymore) but with Courier not ready to head over to Paris yet they were kind of stuck with Arias....I guess Annacone didn't want to go either
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Rome was BO3 too.
Not a good look on Sinner that a 37 year old Djokovic outplayed Carlitos on clay
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
The hype train keeps losing steam, and the bandwagon keeps changing.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Did he even have one when he won no big titles on clay?
InsuranceMan
Hall of Fame
It just feels like you have insane precision and connection beneath you. There’s a conscious benefit that you actively focus on where you have really good timing, partly because you're reading balls well off the racket, for flow steps, split steps, and adjustment/shuffle steps. But also for the less conscious thinking that is usually associated with flow states your mind reads the ball and court and just automatically devises footwork patterns and orientations.
Footwork patterns I would explain more as the building blocks you use, from basic like how many adjustment steps do I need before reach the ball, obviously 1-2 closed stance to unload on the ball and claim some initiative. Another pattern ok maybe like it's slightly angling on the deuce and I want to cut the angle off but still keep some open stance so I can recover there's one for that no not just on the run forehand this specifically is like an amended version because you're caught awkwardly more inside the court and say coming further from the ad so you can't take the a full on the run cut because you don't have the spacing and it becomes about balancing getting the power from the transfer will also managing your hips to stay open as you can which is a tricky blend. Can't think of it without a racket in my hand rn it's niche
Anyway that was a tangent footwork orientation in my mind is more about the real subtleties about your feet in three dimensional space (more or less 3D, nobody is putting weight on the outside edge of a foot). Some examples might be like ok I'm behind the baseline and sliding wide to hit a forehand slice, this guy likes to go short when I'm dropped, so I slide for the FH slice and I'm dragging my toe box and I might bring it about to catch some of my big toe/ball of foot edge, one variable would be how much I'm catching, another variable would be timing would say more often you would do that towards the latter half of the slide and then it prepares to burst forward better than just toe box drag. Same thing slightly different I'm moving in the FH slice slide again maybe I watch it cop a bad bounce knocks a little bit of pace off or maybe I just misread it and my initial pace was wrong, like then I'll round it about early so I can come big toe edge which makes sure I don't overrun the ball mess up my spacing and jam myself. One thing about toe box drag is that nobody ever seriously applies pressure down strict toe box drag is just a balance thing but if you catch part of that big toe edge you can increase the friction with pressure and actually have an active affect on how fast you're moving. You could get the heel involved doesn't have to just be with the big toe, if your angle is moving slightly backwards in the FH slice slide example the side of your heel might be more important than your big toe/ball of foot edge. This is where the 3D stuff comes into place it depends.
Another situation say my opponent transitions comes to the net, I think I have enough space so I go to dip at his feet, ball clips the net and they have to difficultly adjust say they switch instead of hitting that low volley they then punch a FH slice deep. The issue is I was anticipating post-low volley but since they adjusted now I have to difficultly adjust to this now deep punch slice. So like say on the backhand side I gotta get backwards ASAP so I crossover step into a kind of drag step/shuffle and then here's the orientation part, yeah I bend my back knee that's the big thing but I'm not just leaving the sole of my front foot completely back, for starters because you need more flexibility and it's just a harder movement for almost no reason and almost nobody has the mobility strength in that much stretch I would say (well why don't you just bring you feet closer together why do you have to go so far out? because I want a low base when I can get it). Anyway you're moving backwards after the crossover, drag shuffle, and then slide on the backfoot, bend the knee to get low and then I have to lift the outside edge of my forefoot up and drag the inside edge, again here part of orientation you can adjust your speed how much pressure do you want to apply to that inside edge to go slower. And part of this footwork flow and the orientation subsection is being really in tune with how much applied pressure is necessary and what the output is, and then knowing so much that you can recognize a bunch of different speeds and match pressure to those speeds. If they hit a crazy low slice, maybe it's just a great shot, maybe this is because you're playing on grass (though I wouldn't know, never played) means you get crazy low on the backfoot and a lot more importance upfront because now you have to lift your forefoot outside edge all the way up which brings a lot of bottom sole contact off the ground so you're really biting into the ground with that inside edge. Weight's not dispersed over as large a surface area so you have to balance on a really fine point, that's one consideration and then there's slowing down and adjusting to the ball as it comes, you especially have a lot of play with that here because you have so much edge on tap to pull from. Say maybe this whole thing is actually over a topspin forehand or a topspin backhand (everything else same situation you're still caught and then gotta get back ASAP as a ball gets punched deep) you're not gonna be as low to the ground because you don't have to be so it's not as extreme, maybe you only put a touch of weight on a little bit of inside edge, just a pulse, for balance depending on if you feel like you need it.
I would include intelligently manipulating your hips to bait someone to go a certain direction as well, lot of good defenders use that and understanding of opponent tendencies. Anyway this stuff is big for clay (wouldn't know grass) and big points because that's when you get put in those tricky positions and creative orientation out of the corners lets really good, creative movers steal absolutely colossal points. And I can't recognize this stuff on a TV screen or hardly on another person's body but in that second set when Sinner just seemed vulnerable Carlos went into that confidence and higher gear I was talking about with @ibbi, immediately some of those points stood out like there was just some intangible difference with his movement and it was marginally crisper, quicker, intentional, and elite. And marginal goes a long way, that's how he stole some of those points that otherwise wouldn't have happened and accumulated points for his lead and eventually helped led to that breadstick, the significance of which has already been discussed
@Kralingen you like sports read my effort pls dunno who else would be interested maybe @tudwell
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Dominic Thiem's clay court prowess earned him the nickname "Prince of Clay" due to his natural talent and mastery of the surface, particularly his exceptional footwork and ability to slide into shots. While Thiem ultimately didn't achieve the same level of dominance as Rafael Nadal, the "King of Clay," on the red dirt, he was widely considered a leading contender to dethrone him.
That bit I don't believe was the case.
D
Deleted member 827468
Guest
cant wait for rg.. good that just one week left
The Guru
G.O.A.T.
It’s becoming harder and hard to believe with each coming year but I still feel that Alcaraz has the ability to enter the all time goat FH conversation. I see nothing in his technique or footwork that poses an inherent flaw that’ll stop him from being able to keep the damage and add in better consistency. I don’t think the BH ever gets there consistency wise but it doesn’t need to with everything else he has in the bag.
Always under PIP.
lol. Neither Carlos nor Jannik will be irrelevant for a long long time.
It curled away forever too.Can't really tell from the image, but this was an incredible surprise cross court dropshot
Never know which Carlos turns up when, but today he showed up as a forehand doctor and put up a clinic.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
If sinner takes grass then Carlos is a one surface man and sinner is improving on clay. But yes irrelevant was a bit harsh. But if sinner controls hards and grass then Carlos would be fading.lol. Neither Carlos nor Jannik will be irrelevant for a long long time.
He often gets these epiphanies but invariably forgets them too.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
What’s your take on today’s result?lol. Neither Carlos nor Jannik will be irrelevant for a long long time.
So far there’s zero indication Sinner is any closer to taking over grass than he is clay. It ought to suit his particular weapons, but movement and improvisation are also extremely important on grass, and he’s yet to show any real mastery of those finer elements of playing on the surface. It’s possible that he never does (though with his diligence in systematically improving his weaknesses, I think that’s unlikely). And it’s not like Alcaraz has no potential to improve on hard courts. I doubt he’ll ever be as dominant on the surface as Sinner has been the last year and a half, but he could certainly close the gap quite a bit more than he has so far.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Who is in that conversation for you? I'm not sure he'll ever iron out the kinks to make it an surface weapon the caliber or say Fed's.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Sinner seems to receive a lot of benefit of the doubt for no reason
Pheasant
Legend
Congrats to Alcaraz for a well-deserved win. He came out firing during that 2nd set. Alcaraz’s speed is at a goat-level; something that threw Sinner off. He ran down a lot of Sinner’s cannons. One thing that I noticed is that Alcaraz got to shots and then hit rifles before Sinner could get to the net. His wicked speed and power took away a lot of Sinner’s approach shots. And of course, Alcaraz also hit some wicked winners while on the run.
I had this all backwards. It’s actually Sinner that needs to improve his service game in order to beat Alcaraz on clay; not the other way around.
Now granted , Sinner was still a bit rusty. But you could see that Alcaraz is still better than even a polished Sinner on clay at this point. The question is if Sinner can improve enough to catch Alcaraz on that surface.
I had this all backwards. It’s actually Sinner that needs to improve his service game in order to beat Alcaraz on clay; not the other way around.
Now granted , Sinner was still a bit rusty. But you could see that Alcaraz is still better than even a polished Sinner on clay at this point. The question is if Sinner can improve enough to catch Alcaraz on that surface.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
After this, Sinner has no chance against Alcarez at the french open. its mental thing
Nothing's changed here then I see, though going on the tear he's gone on does deserve quite a bit of benefit of the doubt.
To be fair to Carlos, he's coming back from injuries to each leg.
Scrappy, nervous match from both players. Hard to read too much into it. Both have the capability to play a lot better. I’m really curious how things might have played out had Sinner snatched the first set. I think Alcaraz may have still outlasted him in the end, but we’ll never know.
I think this match helped show just how beastly Carlos’s forehand is on clay. It wasn’t even an especially scintillating performance, but he really controlled proceedings, changing the pace (and height) of rallies, opening up the court with angles, and finishing things off when he had a clear opening. I think that more conservative play gets punished on hard courts but on clay it’s a lot harder to make him pay. His loopier stuff is just so heavy, even a great ball striker like Sinner struggles to hit through it. That allows Alcaraz to loosen up and only go for point-ending shots when the opportunity is really there (while I think he feels forced to go for that stuff earlier than he’d really like on hard courts). The topspin also pushes people back and makes his dropper even more effective. (I think all this is true for most of his play this clay season, but seeing it against Jannik really reinforces just how impressive a shot it is.)
I think he’s clear favorite for Roland Garros - probably the most sizable favorite he’s ever been entering a major - but also hasn’t looked especially dominant on the surface. It’s weird. He’s not necessarily beating guys by a huge margin, and yet he also feels extremely hard to beat. Will probably be even harder to take him down in best-of-five, too.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Sinner was the 18-0 Patriots waltzing into the Super Bowl
I always, always trust the guy who has been battle tested en route to the Final over the guy who's made it look easy.
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