Rome 2025 FINAL - Sinner vs Alcaraz

[messiahrobins]

Musetti can beat Djoker and Alcaraz; he needs to fine-tune his shots and make fewer errors. He almost beat Djokovic at RG in 2021 but ran out of steam. He seem to be fitter now.

dont see him beating Carlitos tbh not with a one handed BH

 

[Lleytonstation]

Sinner was the 18-0 Patriots waltzing into the Super Bowl

I always, always trust the guy who has been battle tested en route to the Final over the guy who's made it look easy.

Lol what are you on about. Sinner lost a set while Carlos straight setted. Ruud is better on clay than Musetti as well.

 

[messiahrobins]

I am counting Roland Garros area and Philipe Chatrier stadium. Here he lost twice.

Whatever reasons you say he was favorite in both the matches, he was GS champion and he beat djoker in just the previous match.

He may win 10 FO, entirely possible but right now he is 0-2 in PC against Djoker. Or you think results should not be in record books.

im not sure a match where one is injured with cramps tells us much. And i firmly believe had the Olympics been best of 5 Alcaraz wins that in 5 sets. So imho from what i have seen Alcaraz is better on clay, and i am in no doubt would easily beat Djokovic this year should they meet albeit im not sure that would count for much now.

 

[Rosstour]

Lol what are you on about. Sinner lost a set while Carlos straight setted. Ruud is better on clay than Musetti as well.

All the hype was around Sinner going into this matchup. All of it.

And Alcaraz lost a set to Khachanov you absolute fool

 

[nolefam_2024]

All the hype was around Sinner going into this matchup. All of it.

And Alcaraz lost a set to Khachanov you absolute fool

Raz is 5 foot 12 inches. I would not hear any more of this.

The member is right.

 

[Rovesciarete]

Congrats to Alcaraz for a well-deserved win. He came out firing during that 2nd set. Alcaraz’s speed is at a goat-level; something that threw Sinner off. He ran down a lot of Sinner’s cannons. One thing that I noticed is that Alcaraz got to shots and then hit rifles before Sinner could get to the net. His wicked speed and power took away a lot of Sinner’s approach shots. And of course, Alcaraz also hit some wicked winners while on the run.

I had this all backwards. It’s actually Sinner that needs to improve his service game in order to beat Alcaraz on clay; not the other way around.

Now granted , Sinner was still a bit rusty. But you could see that Alcaraz is still better than even a polished Sinner on clay at this point. The question is if Sinner can improve enough to catch Alcaraz on that surface.

Overall well said. For me a final loss on his weakest surface, slowish at that, against the strongest competitor on clay, with some physical niggles and a training block likely targeting RG, after over three months without match experience, is actually an excellent result for Sinner.

Tactically the second serve is still the stroke which needs most work for clay duty, I would love to see a better slider for grass. This year Jannik should be far better prepared for the clay slam than last year, when he could not train for two weeks right before the event.

I have written often that Alcaraz has the greatest safety margin on clay because he can trust there his legwork the most - and I had him as the favorite here.

 

[messiahrobins]

Lol what are you on about. Sinner lost a set while Carlos straight setted. Ruud is better on clay than Musetti as well.

alcaraz is better on clay than Sinner. Sinner better on hard. They will beat each other occasionally on each others best surface but generally i expect their rivalry to be much like Nadal and Djokovic's was.
Its grass where i think the true battles await. I am praying for a Sinner-Alcaraz final albeit i do love Draper as i do know him a bit through my coach and he really is a top guy.

 

[Succession]

If sinner takes grass then Carlos is a one surface man and sinner is improving on clay. But yes irrelevant was a bit harsh. But if sinner controls hards and grass then Carlos would be fading.

He needs to catch up on Raz’ 2 Wimbledon titles first tho

 

[Pheasant]

Overall well said. For me a final loss on his weakest surface, slowish at that, against strongest clay competition, with some physical niggles and a training block likely targeting RG, after over three months without match experience, is actually an excellent result for Sinner.

Tactically the second serve is still the stroke which needs most work for clay duty, I would love to see a better slider for grass. This year Jannik should be far better prepared for the clay slam than last year, when he could not train for two weeks right before the event.

I have written often that Alcaraz has the greatest safety margin on clay because he can trust there his legwork the most - and I had him as the favorite here.

Agreed. This was a great result for Sinner, given the circumstances!

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

I did call this ages ago. Remember I said it could resemble Sampras v Courier rivalry?

You did call it. Credit to you on this one.

 

[Mark Anderson]

There's one thing you can't beat Alcaraz at.

And that's luck.

Thanks for dropping that in.

 

[albertobra]

That BH that went large on 1st set set point from Sinner was key. He should have crosscourted one more to open more court before going for killer. But it happens, especially after a 3 months forced stop.

 

[dking68]

That BH that went large on 1st set set point from Sinner was key. He should have crosscourted one more to open more court before going for killer. But it happens, especially after a 3 months forced stop.

Yes that one killed it for him. Would’ve won the set and who knows, would’ve had more confidence going into the second set

 

[Juice4080]

He often gets these epiphanies but invariably forgets them too.

You could already see it in this match when he was up 5-0. Playing with controlled agression will always be a challenge for him because his default mode is to attack and go for broke. But I really think something clicked here, he got tangible results against someone on his level by dialing it back a bit. That’s what won him the set, and I think he finally realized that’s what did. He saw the value of playing with margin.

 

[dking68]

Scrappy, nervous match from both players. Hard to read too much into it. Both have the capability to play a lot better. I’m really curious how things might have played out had Sinner snatched the first set. I think Alcaraz may have still outlasted him in the end, but we’ll never know.

I think this match helped show just how beastly Carlos’s forehand is on clay. It wasn’t even an especially scintillating performance, but he really controlled proceedings, changing the pace (and height) of rallies, opening up the court with angles, and finishing things off when he had a clear opening. I think that more conservative play gets punished on hard courts but on clay it’s a lot harder to make him pay. His loopier stuff is just so heavy, even a great ball striker like Sinner struggles to hit through it. That allows Alcaraz to loosen up and only go for point-ending shots when the opportunity is really there (while I think he feels forced to go for that stuff earlier than he’d really like on hard courts). The topspin also pushes people back and makes his dropper even more effective. (I think all this is true for most of his play this clay season, but seeing it against Jannik really reinforces just how impressive a shot it is.)

I think he’s clear favorite for Roland Garros - probably the most sizable favorite he’s ever been entering a major - but also hasn’t looked especially dominant on the surface. It’s weird. He’s not necessarily beating guys by a huge margin, and yet he also feels extremely hard to beat. Will probably be even harder to take him down in best-of-five, too.

I got Sinner making the final this year at RG. Will put up a much much bigger fight than he did today. Not sure if he wins though

 

[dking68]

@tudwell dont know if you remembered me saying, I actually wanted Sinner to lose today. Rome winners generally lose RG according to history in the last 5 years. Let’s see if Carlos breaks the trend

 

[Rovesciarete]

Listened now also to the German part of Sinner. Pretty much the same tone, maybe a slight focus on the necessity of playing more sets and matches to get back into rhythm. In Italian he underlined his inferior movement relative to Alcaraz and the role it also played in stroke production and decision making.

Personally I think Jannik can still improve his athleticism a lot over the next years, only started with heavier loads two years or so ago.

 

[Mark Anderson]

I think Alcaraz will get it back together again on HC at some point. He was good in USO 2022 not sure what happened after that.

His quarterfinal with Sinner was the match of the year.

 

[Dane_is_Finnish_OJ]

If sinner takes grass then Carlos is a one surface man and sinner is improving on clay. But yes irrelevant was a bit harsh. But if sinner controls hards and grass then Carlos would be fading.

That’s a lot of “ifs”. So if Alcaraz wins the USO, is Sinner fading?

 

[Lleytonstation]

That’s a lot of “ifs”. So if Alcaraz wins the USO, is Sinner fading?

Yes.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Ferrero is one of the most successful coaches in tennis history, I don't get the hate.

Spanish/suffer

 

[Lleytonstation]

All the hype was around Sinner going into this matchup. All of it.

And Alcaraz lost a set to Khachanov you absolute fool

QF through F sinner lost a set and Carlos straight setted everyone. Carlos is the betting favorite while sinner has never been in a final. 18-0 Patriots fits Carlos better. You should stop throwing around fool if you can't comprehend that.

 

[Mark Anderson]

More like the beta queen after today

He does look a bit bulked up.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Good again to see Sinner being classy in defeat against Calros I have to say. Nice scenes. Jannik clearly has way more class than "SOME" of his fans here...

He's always been methodical.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Funny thing is that Carlitos won playing controlled, more boring tennis like people have told him to do—he played defense and waiting for openings and didn’t go for crazy shots. It’s more boring for sure but highly effective.

 

[Mark Anderson]

The H2H rivalry is one-way, but the broader rivalry - expanding out and looking at who is achieving the most, winning the most, etc. - isn't one-way.

Alcaraz does need to tell the others how to do this.

 

[Rosstour]

QF through F sinner lost a set and Carlos straight setted everyone. Carlos is the betting favorite while sinner has never been in a final. 18-0 Patriots fits Carlos better. You should stop throwing around fool if you can't comprehend that.

I meant here, the vast majority of comments were down on Carlos and high on Sinner. He's so dominant, he's the alpha, Carlos is finnish, etc.

This is why I was telling the SinnerManiacs to cool it with the bullhorns, they look silly now as do you

 

[intrepidish]

@tudwell dont know if you remembered me saying, I actually wanted Sinner to lose today

Here's what I recall:

Sinner’s going to beat him badly.

Carlos is not beating homeboy at home, and I predict it won't be close

 

[Rosstour]

Here's what I recall:

The receipts just keep coming

Show them no mercy! lol

 

[sliceroni]

The only way to shut haters up is to win. Carlos shows he’s still the best on natural surfaces. I like Sinner too, but he was lucky this wasn’t best out of 5, the 3rd set wouldn’t have been pretty. He and his team have some work to put in this week, and figure out a game plan. That said, making the final after 3 months off tour is remarkable, and reminds the rest of the field it’s a 2 man race.

 

[Rosstour]

The only way to shut haters up is to win.

Did he really shut them up? I still see them talking, with not one ounce of self awareness after a match that turned into a straight beatdown

 

[sliceroni]

Did he really shut them up? I still see them talking, with not one ounce of self awareness after a match that turned into a straight beatdown

Eh they’re in the denial phase

 

[McGradey]

My prediction was doo doo. (Janni boy in straights is what I thought).

Watching the replay now. Pretty nervy both of them in the first set. Alcaraz forehand incredible variety, heaviness and overall effectiveness.

Sinner running forehand is fully honed and the best on tour by some distance, it’s Del Potro esque. Got that donkey kick backhand footwork well oiled now too.

 

[Dane_is_Finnish_OJ]

Did he really shut them up? I still see them talking, with not one ounce of self awareness after a match that turned into a straight beatdown

I love it how the Sinner fans in here have already forgotten how their guy got his butt kicked – and are once again talking about how he'll win everything, is a favourite for RG, Wimbledon etc. Did they not see the match? Alcaraz basically did everything better than their guy.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

Funny thing is that Carlitos won playing controlled, more boring tennis like people have told him to do—he played defense and waiting for openings and didn’t go for crazy shots. It’s more boring for sure but highly effective.

and he still managed to be electrifying

 

[Vincent-C]

and he still managed to be electrifying

alkySux

 

[Kralingen]

It just feels like you have insane precision and connection beneath you. There’s a conscious benefit that you actively focus on where you have really good timing, partly because you're reading balls well off the racket, for flow steps, split steps, and adjustment/shuffle steps. But also for the less conscious thinking that is usually associated with flow states your mind reads the ball and court and just automatically devises footwork patterns and orientations.

Footwork patterns I would explain more as the building blocks you use, from basic like how many adjustment steps do I need before reach the ball, obviously 1-2 closed stance to unload on the ball and claim some initiative. Another pattern ok maybe like it's slightly angling on the deuce and I want to cut the angle off but still keep some open stance so I can recover there's one for that no not just on the run forehand this specifically is like an amended version because you're caught awkwardly more inside the court and say coming further from the ad so you can't take the a full on the run cut because you don't have the spacing and it becomes about balancing getting the power from the transfer will also managing your hips to stay open as you can which is a tricky blend. Can't think of it without a racket in my hand rn it's niche

Anyway that was a tangent footwork orientation in my mind is more about the real subtleties about your feet in three dimensional space (more or less 3D, nobody is putting weight on the outside edge of a foot). Some examples might be like ok I'm behind the baseline and sliding wide to hit a forehand slice, this guy likes to go short when I'm dropped, so I slide for the FH slice and I'm dragging my toe box and I might bring it about to catch some of my big toe/ball of foot edge, one variable would be how much I'm catching, another variable would be timing would say more often you would do that towards the latter half of the slide and then it prepares to burst forward better than just toe box drag. Same thing slightly different I'm moving in the FH slice slide again maybe I watch it cop a bad bounce knocks a little bit of pace off or maybe I just misread it and my initial pace was wrong, like then I'll round it about early so I can come big toe edge which makes sure I don't overrun the ball mess up my spacing and jam myself. One thing about toe box drag is that nobody ever seriously applies pressure down strict toe box drag is just a balance thing but if you catch part of that big toe edge you can increase the friction with pressure and actually have an active affect on how fast you're moving. You could get the heel involved doesn't have to just be with the big toe, if your angle is moving slightly backwards in the FH slice slide example the side of your heel might be more important than your big toe/ball of foot edge. This is where the 3D stuff comes into place it depends.

Another situation say my opponent transitions comes to the net, I think I have enough space so I go to dip at his feet, ball clips the net and they have to difficultly adjust say they switch instead of hitting that low volley they then punch a FH slice deep. The issue is I was anticipating post-low volley but since they adjusted now I have to difficultly adjust to this now deep punch slice. So like say on the backhand side I gotta get backwards ASAP so I crossover step into a kind of drag step/shuffle and then here's the orientation part, yeah I bend my back knee that's the big thing but I'm not just leaving the sole of my front foot completely back, for starters because you need more flexibility and it's just a harder movement for almost no reason and almost nobody has the mobility strength in that much stretch I would say (well why don't you just bring you feet closer together why do you have to go so far out? because I want a low base when I can get it). Anyway you're moving backwards after the crossover, drag shuffle, and then slide on the backfoot, bend the knee to get low and then I have to lift the outside edge of my forefoot up and drag the inside edge, again here part of orientation you can adjust your speed how much pressure do you want to apply to that inside edge to go slower. And part of this footwork flow and the orientation subsection is being really in tune with how much applied pressure is necessary and what the output is, and then knowing so much that you can recognize a bunch of different speeds and match pressure to those speeds. If they hit a crazy low slice, maybe it's just a great shot, maybe this is because you're playing on grass (though I wouldn't know, never played) means you get crazy low on the backfoot and a lot more importance upfront because now you have to lift your forefoot outside edge all the way up which brings a lot of bottom sole contact off the ground so you're really biting into the ground with that inside edge. Weight's not dispersed over as large a surface area so you have to balance on a really fine point, that's one consideration and then there's slowing down and adjusting to the ball as it comes, you especially have a lot of play with that here because you have so much edge on tap to pull from. Say maybe this whole thing is actually over a topspin forehand or a topspin backhand (everything else same situation you're still caught and then gotta get back ASAP as a ball gets punched deep) you're not gonna be as low to the ground because you don't have to be so it's not as extreme, maybe you only put a touch of weight on a little bit of inside edge, just a pulse, for balance depending on if you feel like you need it.

I would include intelligently manipulating your hips to bait someone to go a certain direction as well, lot of good defenders use that and understanding of opponent tendencies. Anyway this stuff is big for clay (wouldn't know grass) and big points because that's when you get put in those tricky positions and creative orientation out of the corners lets really good, creative movers steal absolutely colossal points. And I can't recognize this stuff on a TV screen or hardly on another person's body but in that second set when Sinner just seemed vulnerable Carlos went into that confidence and higher gear I was talking about with @ibbi, immediately some of those points stood out like there was just some intangible difference with his movement and it was marginally crisper, quicker, intentional, and elite. And marginal goes a long way, that's how he stole some of those points that otherwise wouldn't have happened and accumulated points for his lead and eventually helped led to that breadstick, the significance of which has already been discussed

@Kralingen you like sports read my effort pls dunno who else would be interested maybe @tudwell

Pop that into Google translate to Spanish and you are officially more qualified to coach Carlos Alcaraz than Juan Carlos Ferrero. Wow

 

[Lleytonstation]

I meant here, the vast majority of comments were down on Carlos and high on Sinner. He's so dominant, he's the alpha, Carlos is finnish, etc.

This is why I was telling the SinnerManiacs to cool it with the bullhorns, they look silly now as do you

It's Rome not the French. Last 5 who won Rome lost the French. So let's see how the French goes. Pulling for Musetti.

 

[Sudacafan]

229 days without a loss because he was banned for 3 months. You're right that Djokovic didn't do that. He went 194 days without a loss while battling 24 year old Nadal, 29 year old Federer and 23 year old Murray, and wasn't away from the game for 90 days. We'll give you the consecutive sets against the top 10 but then again, those didn't include any matches against Alcaraz, his nemesis. Both Djokovic and Sinner had 2 AO titles at 23 years old.

If he was banned for a couple of years, he would be the record holder.

 

[McGradey]

In the second set Sinner looks even nervier and his footwork appears a bit heavy compared to the opener.

Charles is running him into the ground and his footwork is going in the opposite direction to Sinner’s — improving.

 

[NoleFam]

If he was banned for a couple of years, he would be the record holder.

Lol. Could be 940 days without a loss. GOAT stuff.

 

[Rosstour]

It's Rome not the French. Last 5 who won Rome lost the French. So let's see how the French goes. Pulling for Musetti.

Does the OCD make it hard for you to admit when you get something wrong?

 

[Rosstour]

I love it how the Sinner fans in here have already forgotten how their guy got his butt kicked – and are once again talking about how he'll win everything, is a favourite for RG, Wimbledon etc. Did they not see the match? Alcaraz basically did everything better than their guy.

I keep saying it, never seen anything like SinnerMania.

At least there was plenty of hardware and results to support the B3 Fan Wars. This is just complete delusion and unhatched chicken counting

 

[McGradey]

Pretty good match as a spectacle but one of the less entertaining of the Carlik matches to date. I would expect Sinner to be better if they match up again at RG.

Overall an awesome tournament and stoked with Alcaraz’s showing. Really clutch stuff.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Does the OCD make it hard for you to admit when you get something wrong?

I'm not wrong. I never said sinner was winning today and never said Carlos was losing. I said this about Wimbledon.

 

[Rosstour]

Pretty good match as a spectacle but one of the less entertaining of the Carlik matches to date. I would expect Sinner to be better if they match up again at RG.

Overall an awesome tournament and stoked with Alcaraz’s showing. Really clutch stuff.

The way Carlos pulled away in the second set has to be mighty concerning for Team Sinner

 

[Mainad]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924143054048444625

First we had 40-15, now we have 15-40. Where's the Italian Finger Lady?

 

[McGradey]

The way Carlos pulled away in the second set has to be mighty concerning for Team Sinner

The goon squad will probably attempt to spin that into a signifier of incoming total dominance from Sinner. Some Simone Biles level mental gymnastics may be shown.

 

[dking68]

@Rafa4LifeEver believe it or not, I actually want Sinner to lose. I think if he wins here, he’s going to lose RG and vice versa. But let’s see

@intrepidish

 

[Alcawrath]

My God, the point from Carlos to go up 5-0 in the second set is absolutely incredible. What a great match and solid win over Sinner at his home masters 1000