Rome 2025 FINAL - Sinner vs Alcaraz

Who wins?

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .
NatF said:
Who is in that conversation for you? I'm not sure he'll ever iron out the kinks to make it an surface weapon the caliber or say Fed's.
Click to expand...
The easy answers are obviously Fed and Nadal. Sometimes it's hard to parse out to fully isolate a FH's value without considering it's function within someone's larger game. Like it's hard to imagine a better FH for someone with Del Po's overall skillset but is his FH optimal with someone who moves better and has a more complete game. Probably not. Like I'm not sure Del Po's FH makes Djokovic better. Djokovic's FH certainly makes Del Po far far worse though.

I think the comp for where I could see Alcaraz's FH getting to is Federer's with the added element of possibly already the best FH drop in the game. But at this point I'm not even sure it's better than like say Thiem's was it's best drop shot excluded at least day in day out.
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
What was the logic behind him losing to fils again? Other than not liking Carlos , which is what made you take Draper over him.
Click to expand...
He was really impressive in the lead up. I believe he crushed Rublev and didn’t drop a set 3 matches prior. I genuinely thought he was a huge threat. Also, he made QF in both Wells and Miami, so my guess was that he was due for a SF run at MC. Also, the MC crowd was heavily behind him.
 
dking68 said:
He was really impressive in the lead up. I believe he crushed Rublev and didn’t drop a set 3 matches prior. I genuinely thought he was a huge threat. Also, he made QF in both Wells and Miami, so my guess was that he was due for a SF run at MC. Also, the MC crowd was heavily behind him.
Click to expand...
On clay against alcaraz who he never beat nor played?
Crushed Rublev who’s been struggling all year?
Lost to medvedev on a slow surface?

Lol
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
On clay against alcaraz who he never beat nor played?
Crushed Rublev who’s been struggling all year?
Lost to medvedev on a slow surface?

Lol
Click to expand...
He was getting results he had never gotten before and I believe he was due a bigger breakthrough at the masters event. And no other perfect place than at MC, where the crowd is pro-Fils. Anyways, when they met again in Barcelona I knew Fils would lose easily cuz if he wasn’t able to do it at MC, where all the cards were in his favor, he wasn’t beating Alcaraz at home.
 
Dane_is_Finnish_OJ said:
I love it how the Sinner fans in here have already forgotten how their guy got his butt kicked – and are once again talking about how he'll win everything, is a favourite for RG, Wimbledon etc. Did they not see the match? Alcaraz basically did everything better than their guy.
Click to expand...

Well cause alcaraz remains a question mark vs the field as a whole. Sinner could win all 4 this year and not play Carlos once at the slams
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Well cause alcaraz remains a question mark vs the field as a whole. Sinner could win all 4 this year and not play Carlos once at the slams
Click to expand...
Sinner legit made a masters final being 3.5 months out of competition. He played well. We are very disappointed with how he lost the first set today. I’m sure things will change and be more competitive should they meet in the RG final. Sinner is hungry.
 
dking68 said:
Look at the winners in Rome from 2020-2024, they all lost in RG, including Rafa who won in 2021
Click to expand...
the guy is saying there's a much longer history to clay court season than five years....have some perspective...it's a fluky stat anyway, there's no reason Alcaraz can't win Rome and Paris...he's apparently healthy again and moving fine...has a week off to rest and prepare too...confidence at an all-time high going into RG too I imagine
 
dking68 said:
Sinner legit made a masters final being 3.5 months out of competition. He played well. We are very disappointed with how he lost the first set today. I’m sure things will change and be more competitive should they meet in the RG final. Sinner is hungry.
Click to expand...

Maybe.He played well at RG last year. He needs to start using a slice and work on his net game double overtime before RG. My main problem is how many breaks of serves he blew against alcaraz. This is not Sampras we are talking about here. This is alcaraz who is a very poor server. You can’t blow so many BP opportunities like that against such a weak server like alcaraz and expect to win

Alcaraz was basically gifting service games to him and sinner still didn’t capitalize/
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Maybe.He played well at RG last year. He needs to start using a slice and work on his net game double overtime before RG. My main problem is how many breaks of serves he blew against alcaraz. This is not Sampras we are talking about here. This is alcaraz who is a very poor server. You can’t blow so many BP opportunities like that against such a weak server like alcaraz and expect to win

Alcaraz was basically gifting service games to him and sinner still didn’t capitalize/
Click to expand...
I think working on your net game is a necessity on clay and if he wants to win the French he better atleast get comfortable moving forward up there.
 
TennisGrandpA said:
Dude Rafa is an anomaly and before Rafa it was done in 1995 , not even great Guga , Djokovic could do it
Click to expand...
and Alcaraz is proving to be an anomaly too at this still early part of his career...you're ignoring that...he'll likely go on to have a greater clay court career than Novak and Guga, and Wilander and Lendl

what exactly are we even implying here?...that going the distance at Rome wears a player out for Paris?...that they get over-confident?

it's a dumb stat that doesn't have any connection to Alcaraz
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Maybe.He played well at RG last year. He needs to start using a slice and work on his net game double overtime before RG. My main problem is how many breaks of serves he blew against alcaraz. This is not Sampras we are talking about here. This is alcaraz who is a very poor server. You can’t blow so many BP opportunities like that against such a weak server like alcaraz and expect to win

Alcaraz was basically gifting service games to him and sinner still didn’t capitalize/
Click to expand...
He will learn. He’s motivated and has the desire. Carlos is not defending his Channel slam, mark my words
 
marc45 said:
and Alcaraz is proving to be an anomaly too at this still early part of his career...you're ignoring that...he'll likely go on to have a greater clay court career than Novak and Guga, and Wilander

what exactly are we even implying here?...that going the distance at Rome wears a player out for Paris?...that they get over-confident?

it's a dumb stat that doesn't have any connection to Alcaraz
Click to expand...
Proving with one RG that he won after multiple 5 setters ?? sorry not enough stats to go against historical data. I’ll happily follow the pattern.
 
TennisGrandpA said:
Proving with one RG that he won after multiple 5 setters ?? sorry not enough stats to go against historical data. I’ll happily follow the pattern.
Click to expand...
go right ahead, you're very likely to be proven wrong

Alcaraz isn't a stat, he's an insanely talented player who clearly is the best clay court player in the world, and quite frankly he won't face the competition at the top that Rafa did...no Novak, no Fed, no Thiem...it feels like Sinner alone might have to stop him and Sinner sure doesn't look like Novak on clay
 
I think there’s a few guys capable of taking Carlos out at RG. Don’t sleep on Fils. Zverev can if he shows up. As long as it’s not a final. Maybe Draper or Paul can give him a bit of an issue and shatter his confidence a bit. Carlos is definitely not in unbeatable form
 
TennisGrandpA said:
I’ll get back to you when Carlos loses RG. It took a dominant champion to break the pattern and even then it wasn’t easy for him and even he failed to repeat it many times. There’s a reason why we analyse past data.
Click to expand...
but you're not analysing it, you're just quoting results....you're underrating Alcaraz on clay for some reason and overrating I don't know who...somebody will be winning Rome and Paris tournaments for years to come and there's one player above all who's likely to do both in the same year
 
marc45 said:
but you're not analysing it, you're just quoting results....you're underrating Alcaraz on clay for some reason and overrating I don't know who...somebody will be winning Rome and Paris tournaments for years to come and there's one player above all who's likely to do both in the same year
Click to expand...

I am not underrating him, as i said it took a dominant champion to do it and even he failed it multiple times , Carlos is not a dominant French open champion yet, especially with multiple 5 setters en route to his maiden FO and before that loss to old Novak Djokovic, no way young Nadal losses to old Novak at RG.
 
Rafa4LifeEver said:
I'd not blame him entirely tbh bcz he didn't know when the match would've started, although he could've set up a random closure time & then edit it once he knew when the match would start.
Click to expand...

Congratulations man , your boy won, i am very much relieved after seeing Sinner lose Rome, Rome plus RG is such a curse
 
TennisGrandpA said:
Congratulations man , your boy won, i am very much relieved after seeing Sinner lose Rome, Rome plus RG is such a curse
Click to expand...
That's a good coping mechanism, but tbh the match was decided on @Razer thin margins, the 5-6 game on Alcaraz serve in set 1 & that missed overhead at 3-4 by Sinner were crucial factors; Sinner could've easily taken set 1 by 7-5 (missed an easy BHDTL on 2nd SP) or by 7-6(5) in the breaker if not for that botched overhead. Which would've resulted in an entirely different match dynamics heading into the 2nd & the Italian with home support would've had a massive upper hand.
 
Rafa4LifeEver said:
That's a good coping mechanism, but tbh the match was decided on @Razer thin margins, the 5-6 game on Alcaraz serve in set 1 & that missed overhead at 3-4 by Sinner were crucial factors; Sinner could've easily taken set 1 by 7-5 (missed an easy BHDTL on 2nd SP) or by 7-6(5) in the breaker if not for that botched overhead. Which would've resulted in an entirely different match dynamics heading into the 2nd & the Italian with home support would've had a massive upper hand.
Click to expand...

That’s not a cope, i told you before match that u wanted him to lose. Yes , had Sinner taken one of those bps he would have won first set and match but putting in effort in second set wasn’t worth it. Only great Rafa Nadal could do Rome plus RG , o am more than relieved now.
 
Rafa4LifeEver said:
That's a good coping mechanism, but tbh the match was decided on @Razer thin margins, the 5-6 game on Alcaraz serve in set 1 & that missed overhead at 3-4 by Sinner were crucial factors; Sinner could've easily taken set 1 by 7-5 (missed an easy BHDTL on 2nd SP) or by 7-6(5) in the breaker if not for that botched overhead. Which would've resulted in an entirely different match dynamics heading into the 2nd & the Italian with home support would've had a massive upper hand.
Click to expand...
TennisGrandpA said:
That’s not a cope, i told you before match that u wanted him to lose. Yes , had Sinner taken one of those bps he would have won first set and match but putting in effort in second set wasn’t worth it. Only great Rafa Nadal could do Rome plus RG , o am more than relieved now.
Click to expand...

I have not seen the match yet but I will soon. The scoreline says 1st set was close as hell and then second one SInner got breadsticked... what the hell... this cannot be good for Jannik for the french open unless he tanked it to prepare for the french ? I donno... that sounds unrealistic, why would he tank vs Alcaraz to practice early ? The Italian open is the actual match practice...
 
InsuranceMan said:
It just feels like you have insane precision and connection beneath you. There’s a conscious benefit that you actively focus on where you have really good timing, partly because you're reading balls well off the racket, for flow steps, split steps, and adjustment/shuffle steps. But also for the less conscious thinking that is usually associated with flow states your mind reads the ball and court and just automatically devises footwork patterns and orientations.

Footwork patterns I would explain more as the building blocks you use, from basic like how many adjustment steps do I need before reach the ball, obviously 1-2 closed stance to unload on the ball and claim some initiative. Another pattern ok maybe like it's slightly angling on the deuce and I want to cut the angle off but still keep some open stance so I can recover there's one for that no not just on the run forehand this specifically is like an amended version because you're caught awkwardly more inside the court and say coming further from the ad so you can't take the a full on the run cut because you don't have the spacing and it becomes about balancing getting the power from the transfer will also managing your hips to stay open as you can which is a tricky blend. Can't think of it without a racket in my hand rn it's niche

Anyway that was a tangent footwork orientation in my mind is more about the real subtleties about your feet in three dimensional space (more or less 3D, nobody is putting weight on the outside edge of a foot). Some examples might be like ok I'm behind the baseline and sliding wide to hit a forehand slice, this guy likes to go short when I'm dropped, so I slide for the FH slice and I'm dragging my toe box and I might bring it about to catch some of my big toe/ball of foot edge, one variable would be how much I'm catching, another variable would be timing would say more often you would do that towards the latter half of the slide and then it prepares to burst forward better than just toe box drag. Same thing slightly different I'm moving in the FH slice slide again maybe I watch it cop a bad bounce knocks a little bit of pace off or maybe I just misread it and my initial pace was wrong, like then I'll round it about early so I can come big toe edge which makes sure I don't overrun the ball mess up my spacing and jam myself. One thing about toe box drag is that nobody ever seriously applies pressure down strict toe box drag is just a balance thing but if you catch part of that big toe edge you can increase the friction with pressure and actually have an active affect on how fast you're moving. You could get the heel involved doesn't have to just be with the big toe, if your angle is moving slightly backwards in the FH slice slide example the side of your heel might be more important than your big toe/ball of foot edge. This is where the 3D stuff comes into place it depends.

Another situation say my opponent transitions comes to the net, I think I have enough space so I go to dip at his feet, ball clips the net and they have to difficultly adjust say they switch instead of hitting that low volley they then punch a FH slice deep. The issue is I was anticipating post-low volley but since they adjusted now I have to difficultly adjust to this now deep punch slice. So like say on the backhand side I gotta get backwards ASAP so I crossover step into a kind of drag step/shuffle and then here's the orientation part, yeah I bend my back knee that's the big thing but I'm not just leaving the sole of my front foot completely back, for starters because you need more flexibility and it's just a harder movement for almost no reason and almost nobody has the mobility strength in that much stretch I would say (well why don't you just bring you feet closer together why do you have to go so far out? because I want a low base when I can get it). Anyway you're moving backwards after the crossover, drag shuffle, and then slide on the backfoot, bend the knee to get low and then I have to lift the outside edge of my forefoot up and drag the inside edge, again here part of orientation you can adjust your speed how much pressure do you want to apply to that inside edge to go slower. And part of this footwork flow and the orientation subsection is being really in tune with how much applied pressure is necessary and what the output is, and then knowing so much that you can recognize a bunch of different speeds and match pressure to those speeds. If they hit a crazy low slice, maybe it's just a great shot, maybe this is because you're playing on grass (though I wouldn't know, never played) means you get crazy low on the backfoot and a lot more importance upfront because now you have to lift your forefoot outside edge all the way up which brings a lot of bottom sole contact off the ground so you're really biting into the ground with that inside edge. Weight's not dispersed over as large a surface area so you have to balance on a really fine point, that's one consideration and then there's slowing down and adjusting to the ball as it comes, you especially have a lot of play with that here because you have so much edge on tap to pull from. Say maybe this whole thing is actually over a topspin forehand or a topspin backhand (everything else same situation you're still caught and then gotta get back ASAP as a ball gets punched deep) you're not gonna be as low to the ground because you don't have to be so it's not as extreme, maybe you only put a touch of weight on a little bit of inside edge, just a pulse, for balance depending on if you feel like you need it.

I would include intelligently manipulating your hips to bait someone to go a certain direction as well, lot of good defenders use that and understanding of opponent tendencies. Anyway this stuff is big for clay (wouldn't know grass) and big points because that's when you get put in those tricky positions and creative orientation out of the corners lets really good, creative movers steal absolutely colossal points. And I can't recognize this stuff on a TV screen or hardly on another person's body but in that second set when Sinner just seemed vulnerable Carlos went into that confidence and higher gear I was talking about with @ibbi, immediately some of those points stood out like there was just some intangible difference with his movement and it was marginally crisper, quicker, intentional, and elite. And marginal goes a long way, that's how he stole some of those points that otherwise wouldn't have happened and accumulated points for his lead and eventually helped led to that breadstick, the significance of which has already been discussed

@Kralingen you like sports read my effort pls dunno who else would be interested maybe @tudwell
Click to expand...

This is epic!
 
TennisGrandpA said:
That’s not a cope, i told you before match that u wanted him to lose. Yes , had Sinner taken one of those bps he would have won first set and match but putting in effort in second set wasn’t worth it. Only great Rafa Nadal could do Rome plus RG , o am more than relieved now.
Click to expand...
So you’re saying that Sinner let Alcaraz win because he couldn’t be bothered to make an effort in the second set? That sure is coping.
 
Razer said:
I have not seen the match yet but I will soon. The scoreline says 1st set was close as hell and then second one SInner got breadsticked... what the hell... this cannot be good for Jannik for the french open unless he tanked it to prepare for the french ? I donno... that sounds unrealistic, why would he tank vs Alcaraz to practice early ? The Italian open is the actual match practice...
Click to expand...
In every other loss where he looked gassed.
“I was sick. I was not well”

Lot of doping went on during that 90 day vacay.
Cycling off has some side effects to stamina.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

tennis_pro
  • Poll Poll
2025 WTF final - Alcaraz vs Sinner
22 23 24
Replies
1K
Views
21K
Sudacafan
Sudacafan
K
  • Poll Poll
2025 US Open F: [1] Jannik Sinner vs [2] Carlos Alcaraz
60 61 62
Replies
3K
Views
53K
TheVenom1234567
TheVenom1234567
Hitman
  • Poll Poll
2025 Wimbledon Final: Carlos Alcaraz v Jannik Sinner
57 58 59
Replies
3K
Views
54K
Dilexson
Dilexson
Hitman
  • Poll Poll
Roland Garros 2025 Womens Semi Final - Sabalenka vs Swiatek
9 10 11
Replies
537
Views
14K
PDJ
PDJ
Rafa4LifeEver
  • Poll Poll
2025 Rome Open ATP M1000 QF -[3] Carlos Alcaraz Garfia (SPN) v/s [5] Jack Alexander Draper (Great Britain)
2 3
Replies
135
Views
5K
Vincent-C
Vincent-C
Back
Top