Rome 2025 FINAL - Sinner vs Alcaraz

[Succession]

Nope, i am saying I am happy that he lost since RG +Rome is too tough (even Nadal failed many times) you can read my comments before the match wishing for him to lose.

I don't feel it will be too tough for Alcaraz, we will see

 

[Dane_is_Finnish_OJ]

Nope, i am saying I am happy that he lost since RG +Rome is too tough (even Nadal failed many times) you can read my comments before the match wishing for him to lose.

Beforehand + afterhand coping. You're double-coping. Big time.
Nadal did the Rome-Paris double 7 times, he was fine.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

Beforehand + afterhand coping. You're double-coping. Big time.
Nadal did the Rome-Paris double 7 times, he was fine.

And failed many times , before Nadal it was in 1995 when someone did that double , nothing to cope , i am chilled af and 100 sure about Sinner winning RG now.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

I don't feel it will be too tough for Alcaraz, we will see

I am merely following the pattern, great Guga failed (won RG thrice) Djokovic failed , so it’s not easy

 

[Succession]

I am merely following the pattern, great Guga failed (won RG thrice) Djokovic failed , so it’s not easy

Definitely not easy. Will be fascinating to see what happens the next months

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Just gotta bookmark this .

He’s “analyzing past data” cherry picking a way for Sinner to make himself feel better.

No one takes away Jannicks skill set. It’s clear both he and Carlos are in their own tier.
It would be a huge upset if either of them fail to make RG final.

 

[FeroBango]

What an angle on that backhand from Carlos LOL

Not in the highlights but I'm sure this is that near horizontal roll that got Jannik hitting the wall to even touch it.

 

[FeroBango]

Ahahaha these Carlos haters, particularly racquet smash cribbing about Carlos' "luck". Suck on it losers.

 

[FeroBango]

That was a pretty incredible setpoint, he came forward out of nowhere in the biggest moment. WOW.
This is the magic that is Alcaraz.

Yet there was this sense of Deja vu when he sneaked up and delivered that. The biggest points invoke the maverick in him.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Yet there was this sense of Deja vu when he sneaked up and delivered that. The biggest points invoke the maverick in him.

In that second set once he got up a break the aggressive Carlos came out. First set was tactical strategies.

I feel that version of tennis from alcaraz is scarier than anything sinner produces.

 

[Succession]

In that second set once he got up a break the aggressive Carlos came out. First set was tactical strategies.

I feel that version of tennis from alcaraz is scarier than anything sinner produces.

I agree, that was an Alcaraz masterclass I haven't seen many times before.
It also depends on how multi-dimensional Sinner can get. I don't have a clue what his ceiling will be.

 

[Succession]

Yet there was this sense of Deja vu when he sneaked up and delivered that. The biggest points invoke the maverick in him.

100%

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I agree, that was an Alcaraz masterclass I haven't seen many times before.
It also depends on how multi-dimensional Sinner can get. I don't have a clue what his ceiling will be.

Sinners game will never evolve on clay if he doesn’t improve his net game. Sure he can bash the ball and dictate from the baseline with power.

But I think Tommy Paul poked a hole in his game similar to how medvedev used to slap him around. Depth and flat ground strokes pressing to the backhand. Now Paul hasn’t proven he can sustain that level and Medvedev has declined a bit regressing in the department of power and not hitting with depth consistently.

But for some of the top guys today outside of Raz and younger folks coming up : I think will use this strategy more often. Sinner is an elite player and I hold that “A tier” or “S tier” strong, but the chatter of him being an all world grass player and winning the calendar year slam: he’s going to need to add more to his game.

 

[Succession]

Sinners game will never evolve on clay if he doesn’t improve his net game. Sure he can bash the ball and dictate from the baseline with power.

But I think Tommy Paul poked a hole in his game similar to how medvedev used to slap him around. Depth and flat ground strokes pressing to the backhand. Now Paul hasn’t proven he can sustain that level and Medvedev has declined a bit regressing in the department of power and not hitting with depth consistently.

But for some of the top guys today outside of Raz and younger folks coming up : I think will use this strategy more often. Sinner is an elite player and I hold that “A tier” or “S tier” strong, but the chatter of him being an all world grass player and winning the calendar year slam: he’s going to need to add more to his game.

That's a brilliant analysis. I will keep an eye out on how the younger ones will use this strategy.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

That's a brilliant analysis. I will keep an eye out on how the younger ones will use this strategy.

Even in the 3rd set I feel Paul just missed the balls he had to attack on. Or played too tight to sustain the attacking level of play.
But he did neutralize sinners ability to dictate the point.

Sinner I never see use a backhand slice either.

 

[Hitman]

 

[Kralingen]

Funny thing is that Carlitos won playing controlled, more boring tennis like people have told him to do—he played defense and waiting for openings and didn’t go for crazy shots. It’s more boring for sure but highly effective.

To be fair I don’t think it has to be all that “boring”, see the second set for example.

Carlos leaves so much meat on the bone with simple unnecessary errors. He doesn’t have to go ultra defensive to clean those up, just has to rein it in slightly and play with patience.

Really all I ask from him is to not make comical errors on routine rally balls or send every other return long. That would be a massive improvement for him.

 

[Razer]

In every other loss where he looked gassed.
“I was sick. I was not well”

Lot of doping went on during that 90 day vacay.
Cycling off has some side effects to stamina.

Hmm thats sounds like an interesting theory.

 

[tennis24x7]

There’s probably 50 guys on tour that would have broken Carlos multiple times already. Sinner can’t manage it once.

Yeah right they could have done that and been in the final right?

 

[tudwell]

Before Rafa it was done in 1995

If I counted right, it’s been done 14 times in the Open Era (Rafa included). For comparison, the Cincinnati-US Open double has been done 12 times in the Open Era. I’d be curious if any slam-Masters pair is considerably more correlated than Rome-Roland Garros (maybe AO-Indian Wells?), but I’m not gonna take the time to count it all out lol.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

If I counted right, it’s been done 14 times in the Open Era (Rafa included). For comparison, the Cincinnati-US Open double has been done 12 times in the Open Era. I’d be curious if any slam-Masters pair is considerably more correlated than Rome-Roland Garros (maybe AO-Indian Wells?), but I’m not gonna take the time to count it all out lol.

Ummm , very biased way to look at the stats, why don’t you compare it with number of players rather number of times??

 

[intrepidish]

Ummm , very biased way to look at the stats, why don’t you compare it with number of players rather number of times??

For starters because it's an idiotic theory that it's better to lose a final than to win it.

At most you could claim someone tired himself out in a run up to slam but that's pretty ridiculous especially when it's about 2 guys who both played the final in the preceding Masters.

 

[tennis24x7]

Th

Alcz really was able to take a deep breath and play looser, and Sinner tightened up big time.

I think Sinner will center again but will it be enough.

they are both young yes, I think it is enough of a time for Sinner. He is a multiple GS winner, so the mentality is there just a little rust.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

For starters because it's an idiotic theory that it's better to lose a final than to win it.

At most you could claim someone tired himself out in a run up to slam but that's pretty ridiculous especially when it's about 2 guys who both played the final in the preceding Masters.

That was never a theory my friend, theory is Rome plus RG is a difficult feat to achieve and many great players failed to achieve it and has been done by 3 players as far as I know.

 

[tudwell]

Ummm , very biased way to look at the stats, why don’t you compare it with number of players rather number of times??

lol okay. 6 different players for Rome-RG and 10 for Cincinnati-USO (if my hurried count is correct). But you also have to keep in mind what a uniquely dominant force Nadal was at the French. There’s no equivalent at any point in the US Open’s history. A 14-time winner is obviously going to deflate everyone else’s record at the event. (How many times might Djokovic have done the Rome-RG double without Nadal standing in his way?)

But sure, more people pulled off the Cincinnati-US Open double. I’ll grant you that. But even then, great US Open champs like Sampras, Lendl, and Connors never managed to do it. Does that mean it was too difficult for them?

Also, I counted 8 players who’ve won Monte-Carlo and Roland-Garros in the same year, and it hasn’t happened since 2018. I guess it’s only slightly less difficult to pull off than the Rome-RG double. (And the fact that Carlos won both Monte-Carlo and Rome must mean he’s really unlikely to win the French!)

 

[socallefty]

It seemed like Alcaraz was toying with Sinner in the 2nd set injecting more variety into his game with more dropshots, moonballs etc. In the first set, he was more buttoned down during return games as his strategy seemed to be to serve big, hold serve and pull out the set at the end which is what he was able to do. Sinner can’t hit through Alcaraz on a slow surface like clay while Alcaraz has so much variety to bother Sinner.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

lol okay. 6 different players for Rome-RG and 10 for Cincinnati-USO (if my hurried count is correct). But you also have to keep in mind what a uniquely dominant force Nadal was at the French. There’s no equivalent at any point in the US Open’s history. A 14-time winner is obviously going to deflate everyone else’s record at the event. (How many times might Djokovic have done the Rome-RG double without Nadal standing in his way?)

But sure, more people pulled off the Cincinnati-US Open double. I’ll grant you that. But even then, great US Open champs like Sampras, Lendl, and Connors never managed to do it. Does that mean it was too difficult for them?

Also, I counted 8 players who’ve won Monte-Carlo and Roland-Garros in the same year, and it hasn’t happened since 2018. I guess it’s only slightly less difficult to pull off than the Rome-RG double. (And the fact that Carlos won both Monte-Carlo and Rome must mean he’s really unlikely to win the French!)

Yes Nadal is unique and him doing Rome plus RG double so many times and only player to do it in 30 years indeed tell us how difficult it is. Of course Carlos can repeat it but is he Nadal? Or dominant like Nadal ? Not yet, I gotta see more from him.

 

[RSJfan]

Dude, what? Rafa won Rome 10 times, and only failed to follow it up in Paris twice. You sound insane.

At TTW losing = winning. It leads to many ideas that make posters sound insane would be curious elsewhere but that make perfect sense at TTW. For example, a better player loses in R1 rather than in the finals. And it’s best not to win Rome because it occurs just prior to RG.

You will pick up on TTW logic soon enough.

 

[intrepidish]

That was never a theory my friend, theory is Rome plus RG is a difficult feat to achieve and many great players failed to achieve it and has been done by 3 players as far as I know.

Again, completely missing the point. We have 2 players in a final, one will win and one will lose. Both will have spent the same energy. Is it preferable for one of them to win?

There's no scorekeeper in Heaven deciding that if you win Rome you are cursed in Paris.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

Again, completely missing the point. We have 2 players in a final, one will win and one will lose. Both will have spent the same energy. Is it preferable for one of them to win?

There's no scorekeeper in Heaven deciding that if you win Rome you are cursed in Paris.

Again I didn’t say you’re doomed if you win Rome but historically number doesn’t favour you , even three times RG champions like Guga and Djokovic failed to do it. Can it be done ? Of course but my point was it’s difficult if you studies the past data.

 

[tennis24x7]

Does Sinner's lack of adjustment confirm he has been feasting on weak opponents?

No

 

[tennis24x7]

? You actually think something was unlocked here and proper clicked in his head to stay

If this is true then CYGS in couple years

 

[intrepidish]

Again I didn’t say you’re doomed if you win RG but historically number doesn’t favour you , even three times RG champions like Guga and Djokovic failed to do it. Can it be done ? Of course but my point was it’s difficult if you studies the past data.

You keep missing the point. We have 2 players in a final, one will win and one will lose. Both will have spent the same energy. Is it preferable for one of them to win?

Do you think that winning Rome mystically makes you LESS likely to win another tournament in similar conditions and one which you have already won in the past than someone who lost against you in the finals of Rome and who spent the same energy?

 

[tennis24x7]

Anyone doubting Carlos has to rethink. He is on the verge of dishing a bakery product to the player regarded as the best on tour and one of the most dominant players ever....ON HOME COURT

To be fair to Sinner this is Not is Home court surface wise. It happens, Alcaraz will receive a bakery product some other time.

 

[Succession]

To be fair to Sinner this is Not is Home court surface wise. It happens, Alcaraz will receive a bakery product some other time.

He already was on the receiving end against Sinner and Nole, so nothing major in my eyes

 

[flyingboris]

Not in the highlights but I'm sure this is that near horizontal roll that got Jannik hitting the wall to even touch it.

Reddit to the rescue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/1kptqgr/alcaraz_finds_the_angliest_of_angles_in_todays

 

[Rosstour]

To be fair to Sinner this is Not is Home court surface wise. It happens, Alcaraz will receive a bakery product some other time.

Keep saying it, it will eventually happen. Sinner will expose Carlos eventually!

 

[Succession]

Reddit to the rescue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/1kptqgr/alcaraz_finds_the_angliest_of_angles_in_todays

This was so epic, it is engraved in my brain

 

[flyingboris]

Very cool vantage point. It's always surprising how much height these guys put on the ball. And this view really highlights how far these guys run. Love it when either player scrambles to reach a shot, and disappears from view.

 

[Succession]

Very cool vantage point. It's always surprising how much height these guys put on the ball. And this view really highlights how far these guys run. Love it when either player scrambles to reach a shot, and disappears from view.

Soooo good. Wow

 

[Succession]

This type of inside-in FH Raz hits at 5:1 40:40 is one of my favorite FHs ever.

The shape and height of this ball blows my mind. And he unleashed it multiple times in this match.

 

[NYTennisfan]

lol okay. 6 different players for Rome-RG and 10 for Cincinnati-USO (if my hurried count is correct). But you also have to keep in mind what a uniquely dominant force Nadal was at the French. There’s no equivalent at any point in the US Open’s history. A 14-time winner is obviously going to deflate everyone else’s record at the event. (How many times might Djokovic have done the Rome-RG double without Nadal standing in his way?)

But sure, more people pulled off the Cincinnati-US Open double. I’ll grant you that. But even then, great US Open champs like Sampras, Lendl, and Connors never managed to do it. Does that mean it was too difficult for them?

Also, I counted 8 players who’ve won Monte-Carlo and Roland-Garros in the same year, and it hasn’t happened since 2018. I guess it’s only slightly less difficult to pull off than the Rome-RG double. (And the fact that Carlos won both Monte-Carlo and Rome must mean he’s really unlikely to win the French!)

It's just copium being drank by the Sinnerholics. I'm sure if Sinner won Rome, it will be all "Lock for RG, CYGS incoming" and all that other nonsense that has been polluting this forum ever since Sinner's ascension last year. My personal favorite yesterday from that 90s era fanatic poster who I shall not name "Sinner has Alcaraz figured out, I expect him to beat Alcaraz the next 10 times they meet" or something to that effect. Can't even have a normal debate with those guys, how do you reason with delusion like that?

 

[FeroBango]

5 winners 22 UEs Sinner
9 Winners 19 UE Raz

Wtf, is that how this match has looked?

No. The stats that we have for tennis are the worst amongst sports. Unforced Errors is a meaningless stat when it combines all sorts of errors within itself, both forced and unforced.

It's especially meaningless in clay matches between two high rally tolerance athletes such as those two monsters.

To be fair I don’t think it has to be all that “boring”, see the second set for example.

Carlos leaves so much meat on the bone with simple unnecessary errors. He doesn’t have to go ultra defensive to clean those up, just has to rein it in slightly and play with patience.

Really all I ask from him is to not make comical errors on routine rally balls or send every other return long. That would be a massive improvement for him.

What can I say but us? This is the most real Alcaraz take you can make.

 

[flyingboris]

Nice detailed discussion of the match, with lots of grainy gifs of key points. I enjoyed it:

Alcaraz vs Sinner: Rome Final Recap

ball control — Globo Gym — extended wrists — proof-of-work

hughclarke.substack.com

 

[Rovesciarete]

Nice detailed discussion of the match, with lots of grainy gifs of key points. I enjoyed it:

Alcaraz vs Sinner: Rome Final Recap

ball control — Globo Gym — extended wrists — proof-of-work

hughclarke.substack.com

Wrote some time a thread about Shapeshifter Carlos, nice that others see it as well. Could not agree more with his ending:

Both men are brushing shoulders with elite territory.

There’s a possible rematch in a Roland Garros final in a couple of weeks time now that Alcaraz is back to number two on the computer. The good news for Sinner fans is that the Italian has three weeks and six matches between his next possible rendezvous, and given the form he has shown, I think it’s fair to say that both men will be bitterly disappointed to leave before the final.

So would I. Peak tennis sustains me, and I’ve missed this matchup.

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

Yah man, Carlitos, I and I. You the dude in Rome! Superb stuff to win it in straights, refusing to let Jannik gain a foothold. Close 1st set, but a routing in the 2nd in which Jannik had no answers, looking beaten long before the end.

Neither of them at their best – Carlitos returning from an injury and still rehabilitating/ carrying some sort of breathing issue; Jannick absent for 3 months and still acclimatising to the tour. Each of them no doubt gathering information about their own level, and that of those they have faced, their respective games a work in progress for different reasons. Both having achieved more than they had anticipated coming into the event. Well done to them.

Ominous sign for the rest of the field, as I suspect Jannik / Carlitos are aiming to excel, the confidence gained Rome a potential spring-board for their further endeavours. The FO promises to be a fascinating opportunity to see them pursuing their goals.

2 dudes, but a shared platform at the top of the game. Each still growing their respective prowess, navigating the learning curve yet great players already. Hopefully, we’re in for a treat - looking forward to the remaining season, to what unfolds. Hoping others will join the golden path too.

Enjoyed some comments up thread:

I'm definitely more of an Alcaraz believer, but no one should let this match fool them into thinking Carlos suddenly has RG in the bag or that Sinner has been exposed and can't win it.

Last year's SF was as close as it gets, and the 1st set today was decided by the thinnest of margins. Don't let one single set overly influence a match-up.

True man, word. These dudes will likely play each other a lot, and share the spoils.

Never know which Carlos turns up when, but today he showed up as a forehand doctor and put up a clinic.

Heh, heh, nice to see you again man. Hoping Carlitos the fh doctor becomes a regular.

That was a pretty incredible setpoint, he came forward out of nowhere in the biggest moment. WOW.
This is the magic that is Alcaraz.

Yah man, when on, works magic. Inspirational.

 

[Move]

Yah man, Carlitos, I and I. You the dude in Rome! Superb stuff to win it in straights, refusing to let Jannik gain a foothold. Close 1st set, but a routing in the 2nd in which Jannik had no answers, looking beaten long before the end.

Neither of them at their best – Carlitos returning from an injury and still rehabilitating/ carrying some sort of breathing issue; Jannick absent for 3 months and still acclimatising to the tour. Each of them no doubt gathering information about their own level, and that of those they have faced, their respective games a work in progress for different reasons. Both having achieved more than they had anticipated coming into the event. Well done to them.

Ominous sign for the rest of the field, as I suspect Jannik / Carlitos are aiming to excel, the confidence gained Rome a potential spring-board for their further endeavours. The FO promises to be a fascinating opportunity to see them pursuing their goals.

2 dudes, but a shared platform at the top of the game. Each still growing their respective prowess, navigating the learning curve yet great players already. Hopefully, we’re in for a treat - looking forward to the remaining season, to what unfolds. Hoping others will join the golden path too.

Enjoyed some comments up thread:

True man, word. These dudes will likely play each other a lot, and share the spoils.

Heh, heh, nice to see you again man. Hoping Carlitos the fh doctor becomes a regular.


Yah man, when on, works magic. Inspirational.

It was a good talk tennis thread, on the whole respectful and on topic. On to the next one !

 

[Hitman]

 

[dking68]

He doesn’t know what’s coming for him in the RG final. Let him enjoy the victory.

 

[Hitman]

He doesn’t know what’s coming for him in the RG final. Let him enjoy the victory.

He was actually being very considerate in keeping the volume because he knew Sinner was next door in the locker room.