Rome Masters R3: [3] Rafael Nadal vs [13] Denis Shapovalov

Who will win?


  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .

zuluzazu

Hall of Fame
Ok this match has the ingredients to be an error fest as both players are not in very good form. Last year Shapo squandered 2 MPs against Nadal on the same court and gave Nadal a scare at the AO this year. The H2H is Nadal leading 4-1 with Shapo winning their first match. Who you got in this match?
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
It’s theoretically highly improbable that Shapo would draw Nadal three out of his five times at Rome (would be 4 of 5 if Nadal had beaten Schwartzman in 2020). Maybe he will have gained some insight from all this h2h action at Foro Italico. Probably goes three again with Nadal advancing though.
 

Rosstour

Legend
He is supposed to be reaching the peak, that age when you can still do everything with your body, but your mind is mature enough to handle sitiations and learn from mistakes, but he is just droping his level everytime
How many Slams had Fed won at Shapo's current age, in the weakest era of all time?

I know Fed isn't that good and anyone who doesn't win the French at 19 or the Australian at 20 is a mug loser. But let's cut Shapo some slack.

He got down 2 sets to love vs Rafa at this year's AO, and came back to level the match. A soft mug can't do that. He also did that right after obliterating the third seed in straight sets.

He's the most talented player on tour bar none. If he ever gets his gameplan tightened up, he'll be the only thing standing between Alcaraz and total domination.
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
How many Slams had Fed won at Shapo's current age, in the weakest era of all time?

I know Fed isn't that good and anyone who doesn't win the French at 19 or the Australian at 20 is a mug loser. But let's cut Shapo some slack.

He got down 2 sets to love vs Rafa at this year's AO, and came back to level the match. A soft mug can't do that. He also did that right after obliterating the third seed in straight sets.

He's the most talented player on tour bar none. If he ever gets his gameplan tightened up, he'll be the only thing standing between Alcaraz and total domination.
well fed had won many titles at shapos age, and first wimbledon, its true that he hadnt put all the things together yet, but next year (24 years old) he won 3 slams, i dont know, shapos tennis iq, and the way he plays the big moments fall so short compared with the strokes he can produce, thus making things specially dissapointing i guess, but in no way i think he is the most talented, hitting hard isnt everything, he has no vision of the game at all, doesnt have a clue which shot to play in each moment, he has talent for sure, some amazing strokes, but no tennis mind at all
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
You're quite a bit off with Fed's age here. He was 21 when he first won Wimbledon in 2003 and was 22-23 in 2004 when he first won 3 slams in one year.
yeah i just was trying to remember but those numbers support my point even more, to say that shapo is the most talented player on tour... to me is a very narrow vision of what tennis talent is
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
He is supposed to be reaching the peak, that age when you can still do everything with your body, but your mind is mature enough to handle sitiations and learn from mistakes, but he is just droping his level everytime
You do realize he has made a SF and a QF in the last slam cycle, something he had never done before in his career??? How is that droping his level every time???
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
You do realize he has made a SF and a QF in the last slam cycle, something he had never done before in his career??? How is that droping his level every time???
ok yeah, thats true, those were good results no doubt, but i always see him losing to random players every other tournament, maybe i went a bit too far but even tough he went a little further in those couple oof slams i just dont see him playing really better, i really want to but he doesnt seem to get any smarter on a tennis court, maybe he improved a bit his fighting spirit but thats about it
 

Rosstour

Legend
yeah i just was trying to remember but those numbers support my point even more, to say that shapo is the most talented player on tour... to me is a very narrow vision of what tennis talent is
okay. So who is more talented in shotmaking and agility? Nobody that I can think of.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
ok yeah, thats true, those were good results no doubt, but i always see him losing to random players every other tournament, maybe i went a bit too far but even tough he went a little further in those couple oof slams i just dont see him playing really better, i really want to but he doesnt seem to get any smarter on a tennis court, maybe he improved a bit his fighting spirit but thats about it
His attributes above the shoulders are his weakest suit. He has sufficient talent to make him one of the favorites to win most tournaments he enters yet he has just one trophy at a 250 in five years to take up a place on the mantle at home. He runs way too hot and cold.

I wish I was a fly on the wall to see why he’s so uncoachable. Top coaches should be pounding on the door to deal with the skills he possesses but this latest fallout with a reputable guy like Delgado is going to temper any reasonable desire from a good coach to hire on.
 

LeungD

Semi-Pro
Shapo realizes he's not going to be an ATG and that's devastating for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he retired in the next 5years.
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
okay. So who is more talented in shotmaking and agility? Nobody that I can think of.
i can think of many players as agile if not more than shapo, but each body is different and agility may not be as apparent, difficult to judge, about shotmaking, yeah he makes impressive shots but half of the time he makes the wrong shot or just misses, i was talking more about tennis talent, understanding of the game, vision of the game, and the right mentality to play the game, not just making a few spectacular shots here or there, and let me tell you that i really want shapo to do well, since the begining, i wanted him to improve and put everything together because of his potencial, but the more matches i saw from him the more and more i realise his limitations, nd nowadays sometimes its painful for me to watch him play, a lot of nosense tennis, but thats just my opinion
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
His attributes above the shoulders are his weakest suit. He has sufficient talent to make him one of the favorites to win most tournaments he enters yet he has just one trophy at a 250 in five years to take up a place on the mantle at home. He runs way too hot and cold.
some coac
I wish I was a fly on the wall to see why he’s so uncoachable. Top coaches should be pounding on the door to deal with the skills he possesses but this latest fallout with a reputable guy like Delgado is going to temper any reasonable desire from a good coach to hire on.
yeah i totally agree, he has the hands for sure, but not the pause or the vision, the head, and i also tought one of those coaches would suddenly make him "CLICK" but thigns dont really take off for him, maybe some day
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
Name one.
djokovic, alcaraz, monfils..., what do you really mean by "agile" getting to balls? stretch? alcaraz and djokovic get to many more balls than him, he just rushes into everything and ends up missing, generally, sure, he makes some great jumps and has great agility, but thats not an asset that gives him an edge over anyone really
 

Rosstour

Legend
i can think of many players as agile if not more than shapo, but each body is different and agility may not be as apparent, difficult to judge, about shotmaking, yeah he makes impressive shots but half of the time he makes the wrong shot or just misses, i was talking more about tennis talent, understanding of the game, vision of the game, and the right mentality to play the game, not just making a few spectacular shots here or there, and let me tell you that i really want shapo to do well, since the begining, i wanted him to improve and put everything together because of his potencial, but the more matches i saw from him the more and more i realise his limitations, nd nowadays sometimes its painful for me to watch him play, a lot of nosense tennis, but thats just my opinion
You're accurately describing mental toughness and dedication, not talent
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
You're accurately describing mental toughness and dedication, not talent
but talent is not only making good shots sometimes right? xD talent for tennis should be how well you can play and visualize the game in your head, and how well you can execute the right shots at the right time, that jumping backhand is nice, and i use it some times (at my level) when balls are high on the one hander, but that something is flashy doesnt mean that requires the most talent either, whos the most talented in football for example? lets say messi, why? because he alone wins games, because he has a talent to overcome anyone, and that in itself is flasy, not some player that does some tricks but at the end of the day falls short of talent in many other aspects of the game
 

Slicehand

Hall of Fame
No lol

That's not talent. That's mental game.
So talent is only how good your groundtrokes are? Even tough you miss them half of the time? Even tough you cant make a drop volley to save your life? He doesnt even have great hands at the net, or great volleys, to me talent is more than groundstrokes
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Last year Shapo came really close. In Australia he let Rafa escape too.

As a lefty, Shapo seems more comfortable than most handling Rafa's favorite point patterns, so this could be a very entertaining match.

(and/or an errorfest)
 

Rosstour

Legend
So talent is only how good your groundtrokes are? Even tough you miss them half of the time? Even tough you cant make a drop volley to save your life? He doesnt even have great hands at the net, or great volleys, to me talent is more than groundstrokes
omg you are going in circles

I already said agility as well.

He has poor strategy and shot selection. That's not what talent is.
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
He is supposed to be reaching the peak, that age when you can still do everything with your body, but your mind is mature enough to handle sitiations and learn from mistakes, but he is just droping his level everytime
I don't see him dropping his level. That is not the problem w/ Denis. His problems are:

1. He has an awkward ball toss which causes a lot of DF's
2. He prefers to play a high risk style as opposed to patient, strategic tennis which leads to inconsistent results
3. He is not mentally tough when he needs to be

These three factors together are, in my opinion, why he appears to be stagnating. I don't think he is, but he's not solving the core issues. Also, he tends to flit from coach to coach with another inconsistent force of guidance in his career.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I just can't wait to hear what new whinning and unfair treament that Shapo is subjected to that causes him to lose.

But unfortunately I cannot play my favorite drinking game where you take a swig each time Shapo screams or says "com'on".
A) I don't have enough alcohol, and
B) I just can't drink that much so early in the day.

 
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