Roscoe Tanner's 153 mph serve

TheMaestro1990

TheMaestro1990

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According to Wikipedia ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_recorded_tennis_serves ) Roscoe Tanner has hit the eight fastest serve of all time. Which is pretty amazing considering the fact that he did this in 1978. It's the only serve that's in the top 10 that didn't take place in the last 16 years.

So, I'm basically wondering if anyone have the footage of this serve or know where it can be found?

I was searching on Youtube but didn't find it.
 
TheMaestro1990 said:
According to Wikipedia ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_recorded_tennis_serves ) Roscoe Tanner has hit the eight fastest serve of all time. Which is pretty amazing considering the fact that he did this in 1978. It's the only serve that's in the top 10 that didn't take place in the last 16 years.

So, I'm basically wondering if anyone have the footage of this serve or know where it can be found?

I was searching on Youtube but didn't find it.
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I guess it depends where he did it. If it was at a small tournament somewhere then its very unlikely to be on You-Tube. Better hope of finding it if it happened at a Slam.

Edit: According to his Wiki entry, this serve "was clocked at 153 mph at Palm Springs in 1978 during the final against Raúl Ramírez".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Tanner
 
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Radar back then checked the speed as the ball crossed the net. If it was clocked like the present as the ball leaves the frame, it would be even higher. Really good pro servers could clock in the 120+ with wood.
 
esgee48 said:
Radar back then checked the speed as the ball crossed the net. If it was clocked like the present as the ball leaves the frame, it would be even higher. Really good pro servers could clock in the 120+ with wood.
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Yep......Colon Dibley in the 60s and 70s was hitting 145 - 148 mph with a Maxply with regularity. Even Tanner in college and early on your using his Kramer was hitting 135 mph+
 
I heard he snapped the net cable with his serve at the U.S Open 1979...playing Borg and won the match!
 
esgee48 said:
Radar back then checked the speed as the ball crossed the net. If it was clocked like the present as the ball leaves the frame, it would be even higher. Really good pro servers could clock in the 120+ with wood.
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No, they couldn't.

Not a one of these mythical and legendary servers hit anywhere near the speeds historians bent on living in the Good Old Days try to endow them with.

You can find tons of Roscoe Tanner footage out there. If you time-machined him to the modern ATP without the benefit of modern equipment or technique, he wouldn't even be a particularly big server. The biggest servers in the wooden racquet era were routinely in the low-100's mph range when you compare them side-by-side with realtime footage of modern players using accurate speed measurement.
 
TupeloDanger said:
No, they couldn't.

Not a one of these mythical and legendary servers hit anywhere near the speeds historians bent on living in the Good Old Days try to endow them with.

You can find tons of Roscoe Tanner footage out there. If you time-machined him to the modern ATP without the benefit of modern equipment or technique, he wouldn't even be a particularly big server. The biggest servers in the wooden racquet era were routinely in the low-100's mph range when you compare them side-by-side with realtime footage of modern players using accurate speed measurement.
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Philippoussis served 120+ with a wood racquet despite not having grown up playing with one.

Tanner during senior events had clocked faster serves than any pro on the ATP tour did in the early to mid 90's. Roscoe didnt suddenly add 15 MPH to his serve once he turned 40.

Pros today go for more on their serves routinely now. However in terms of sheer top end speed there isnt much separating wood from modern racquets. Roddick to I believe had gone 135+ using wood while practicing. His thoughts on it seemed to be you could hit flat serves just as hard but you coyldnt get as much spin, and rhqt either way it tired your arm out much faster.
 
Sadyv said:
Philippoussis served 120+ with a wood racquet despite not having grown up playing with one.

Tanner during senior events had clocked faster serves than any pro on the ATP tour did in the early to mid 90's. Roscoe didnt suddenly add 15 MPH to his serve once he turned 40.

Pros today go for more on their serves routinely now. However in terms of sheer top end speed there isnt much separating wood from modern racquets. Roddick to I believe had gone 135+ using wood while practicing. His thoughts on it seemed to be you could hit flat serves just as hard but you coyldnt get as much spin, and rhqt either way it tired your arm out much faster.
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This is the accurate picture. Yes, I remember how Tanner was serving bigger than Rosset was in the early 90's at the age of 40. I easily believe if he was serving that fast into his 40's - he would be serving in the high 140's/low 150's in his prime.

Basically the speed clocks in the last 15 years have clocked serves so much faster. Guess what Boris Becker's fastest serve was clocked at - 131mph. Now if he had served during the current era - his top end would be over 140 easily.
 
timnz said:
This is the accurate picture. Yes, I remember how Tanner was serving bigger than Rosset was in the early 90's at the age of 40. I easily believe if he was serving that fast into his 40's - he would be serving in the high 140's/low 150's in his prime.

Basically the speed clocks in the last 15 years have clocked serves so much faster. Guess what Boris Becker's fastest serve was clocked at - 131mph. Now if he had served during the current era - his top end would be over 140 easily.
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At one point the regular ATP record for serve speed was 134 mph in I believe the early 1990s. Tanner was timed at 135 mph on the Senior Tour if memory serves, one mile per hour faster and he was over the hill.
 
Modern guns are indeed hotter. Becker and Ivanisevic used to be measured in the 130s and it was considered insanely fast; now some complete wimps can better that.
 
Limpinhitter said:
I've seen Rosco Tanner play live. Some of his first serves were hitting the back fence about 8 feet high with, to my recollection, a standard 21 feet deep back court.
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That's crazy. My best at a public court is about 4-5' up hitting the back fence and I've been recorded at 126. 8' up has to be 145 :eek:
 
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One of the most scientifically inexplicable of tennis shots .
Such speed , even Colin Dibley. As movement ... Supermac .

1168a334b4e90ca3e81bc19a587a9391.jpg
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roscoe-tanner.jpg
 
Even though Roscoe Tanner hadd one of the fastest serves in tennis (perhaps the fastest) most did considered John Newcombe to be the better server. Arthur Ashe felt that Newk had a very heavy first serve and when you tried to return the serve it would sting your hand! Newcombe's second serve has been called by some to be the best second serve of all time. However it was always fun to watch Roscoe Tanner play! He could beat anyone when he was serving well.
 
Kalin said:
Modern guns are indeed hotter. Becker and Ivanisevic used to be measured in the 130s and it was considered insanely fast; now some complete wimps can better that.
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Their serves were measured as the ball passed the net. Since early 2000's, they are measured immediately after contact.

You can compare Ivanisevic's serve to Roddick's serve here:

 
pc1 said:
Even though Roscoe Tanner hadd one of the fastest serves in tennis (perhaps the fastest) most did considered John Newcombe to be the better server. Arthur Ashe felt that Newk had a very heavy first serve and when you tried to return the serve it would sting your hand! Newcombe's second serve has been called by some to be the best second serve of all time. However it was always fun to watch Roscoe Tanner play! He could beat anyone when he was serving well.
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In my view, Tanner had a better first serve, Newcombe a better second serve.
 
For those who actually watched Roscoe Tanner play in his heyday, I happened to recall he experimented with a two handed backhand...can someone confirm this? For some reason, I remember seeing some brief footage of him hitting and he wasn't using his normal 1 handed backhand. Looked like he was sporting a perm too? I personally never saw him play as I didn't get into tennis until the late 80's. According to this news article he was a two handed backhand player. https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=fQIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4997,2549351&hl=en
 
pc1 said:
At one point the regular ATP record for serve speed was 134 mph in I believe the early 1990s. Tanner was timed at 135 mph on the Senior Tour if memory serves, one mile per hour faster and he was over the hill.
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That's how I recall it too. And if he can hit that at 40, what can he hit in his prime? Combine that with the fact that it seems very clear that the clock speeds are much higher (Same service speed would be clocked higher now than in the early 1990s) you can easily believe that Peak Tanner would be around 150mph
 
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TnsGuru said:
For those who actually watched Roscoe Tanner play in his heyday, I happened to recall he experimented with a two handed backhand...can someone confirm this? For some reason, I remember seeing some brief footage of him hitting and he wasn't using his normal 1 handed backhand. Looked like he was sporting a perm too? I personally never saw him play as I didn't get into tennis until the late 80's. According to this news article he was a two handed backhand player. https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=fQIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4997,2549351&hl=en
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I remember the perm (UGGH!). Not the 2hb.
 
Tanner and Ivanisevic are probably the fastest although Roddick had his peaks.

I think Tanner would be capable of hitting 165 (the current record) on fast hard and maybe even 170. His motion from late 70s video seems to indicate that potential.
 
BGod said:
Tanner and Ivanisevic are probably the fastest although Roddick had his peaks.

I think Tanner would be capable of hitting 165 (the current record) on fast hard and maybe even 170. His motion from late 70s video seems to indicate that potential.
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"I think Tanner....165.....170". That's exactly what it is, you "thinking". There is zero evidence that suggests 170mph. The alleged 153 mph is an outlier and it's debatable that is an accurate reading. Really, some guy 40+ years ago with a wood racquet is serving faster than everyone else on the planet in the modern era? Disagree.
 
pc1 said:
Check this out.
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@2min 44 sec, I absolutely HATE that camera shot where they go for a 1st plane, and then switch right in the middle of the serve motion. What GENIOUS came un with that???? There are still transmisions to this date that do it, AAAAARGH!!!!
 
dr7 said:
"I think Tanner....165.....170". That's exactly what it is, you "thinking". There is zero evidence that suggests 170mph. The alleged 153 mph is an outlier and it's debatable that is an accurate reading. Really, some guy 40+ years ago with a wood racquet is serving faster than everyone else on the planet in the modern era? Disagree.
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I don't think it was wood.

Check the video in the previous post.
 
dr7 said:
Got it, but I still don't believe the numbers or the potential numbers that were stated.
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Tanner was fast but he wasn't 165 mph fast. What he also had was a very quick delivery so the ball got to the receiver very rapidly.
 
dr7 said:
"I think Tanner....165.....170". That's exactly what it is, you "thinking". There is zero evidence that suggests 170mph. The alleged 153 mph is an outlier and it's debatable that is an accurate reading. Really, some guy 40+ years ago with a wood racquet is serving faster than everyone else on the planet in the modern era? Disagree.
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FYI, At his peak, Tanner used an aluminum PDP frame, not wood. It was similar to a Head Master with a plastic throat.

Also, understand that wood racquets are very heavy, and, with gut string, very powerful if hit in the small sweet spot. In my view, unlike groundstrokes, serves in the wood racquet era were nearly as powerful as they are today.
 
Limpinhitter said:
FYI, At his peak, Tanner used an aluminum PDP frame, not wood. It was similar to a Head Master with a plastic throat.

Also, understand that wood racquets are very heavy, and, with gut string, very powerful if hit in the small sweet spot. In my view, unlike groundstrokes, serves in the wood racquet era were nearly as powerful as they are today.
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I hear you, don't have any experience with wood racquets, but I still believe the MPH numbers referenced for Tanner are too high.
 
Anyone watching a video of Tanner should be able to tell immediately he wasn't serving as big as what we consider big now. He has a very jerky motion and hit the ball early, but that is not a 130 mph serve
 
droliver said:
Anyone watching a video of Tanner should be able to tell immediately he wasn't serving as big as what we consider big now. He has a very jerky motion and hit the ball early, but that is not a 130 mph serve
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I've seen Tanner play live. In my view, he was easily hitting into the 130's. So was Dibley and Alexander. Nor is his motion jerky. It was probably the most efficient service motion of all time, along with Tilden and Gonzalez.
 
Limpinhitter said:
In my view, he was easily hitting into the 130's.... Nor is his motion jerky. It was probably the most efficient service motion of all time
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From multiple videos of him in the 70's and early 80's you can get an idea of pace. It's clearly not in the neighborhood of what we consider a big serve today. It's implausible he was in fact hitting the ball 30-35mph harder then his peers of that era if measured accurately.

By "jerky" I meant more the motion then the effect. He hits it really early, kind of like Kriek or Dolpologov. It is kind of a hard delivery to read and is more effective then you'd expect for a given MPH, but just on the eyeball test those serves look like what we see in the 120-130 range rather then the kind of fastball we've seen from Isner, Raonic, Ivo, and Roddick.
 
droliver said:
From multiple videos of him in the 70's and early 80's you can get an idea of pace. It's clearly not in the neighborhood of what we consider a big serve today. It's implausible he was in fact hitting the ball 30-35mph harder then his peers of that era if measured accurately.

By "jerky" I meant more the motion then the effect. He hits it really early, kind of like Kriek or Dolpologov. It is kind of a hard delivery to read and is more effective then you'd expect for a given MPH, but just on the eyeball test those serves look like what we see in the 120-130 range rather then the kind of fastball we've seen from Isner, Raonic, Ivo, and Roddick.
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I disagree with all of your premises. And, I see nothing jerky about Tanner's delivery. It is a beautiful, smooth, delivery with the classic gradual acceleration typical of great serves. He hits the ball on the rise similar to Tilden and Newcombe.
 
He played from '72-'85, long time ago and he was only 6ft. tall. He retired 31 years ago. I am sure he had a big serve in his day, but I doubt he was hitting 120-130 mph. He had a 13 yr. career, only won 16 tournaments.
 
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