Rosewall & Laver

[BobbyOne]

No I don't because Pancho won many pro majors and h2h tours which were even more important.

I accept that Rosewall could have won a Grand Slam, but I can't rank him as if he did. It's just something Laver has over him. Rosewall has his larger number of majors, longevity and WCT wins though.

NatF, That way you must rank Budge very, very high (surely too high) because he has won the Grand Slam while for instance Vines does not. But yet Vines was probably the greater player.

 

[BobbyOne]

There are 3 reasons:

1. Rosewall was often overshadowed during his career (i.e. by Hoad in 1956 when the latter almost won the CYGS, by Gonzales in the late 1950s in the pros, and by Laver for much of the 1960s). A guy who is often considered #2 will not be as well regarded as one is considered a long-term #1, like Tilden/Gonzales/Laver/Sampras/Federer were.

2. Rosewall never won Wimbledon, whereas Laver won it 4 times (5 if we count the Wimbledon Pro). And we cannot say Rosewall didn't have his chances at Wimbledon/Wimbledon Pro - he lost in the final 5 times!

3. Laver won the CYGS twice, Rosewall never.

Frankly speaking you can't rate Rosewall ahead of Laver. Even BobbyOne only rates them as equal...:twisted:

Phoenix1983, Your famous (but wrong) idee fixe...Rosewall did not have many chances to win Wimbledon and the Grand Slam, just contrary to Laver!

I yet could make a case that Muscles is greater than the Rocket...

 

[BobbyOne]

Not bad agreeing from time to time.

kiki, Of course. I mostly even would enjoy an agreement of us about Fraser vs. Roche ;-)

 

[NatF]

NatF, That way you must rank Budge very, very high (surely too high) because he has won the Grand Slam while for instance Vines does not. But yet Vines was probably the greater player.

Budge did the Grand Slam only as an amateur (obviously) so no I don't rank him greater than Vines.

 

[Vensai]

Jack Kramer ranked Budge as more consistent than Vines overall. Vines' peak was greater than Budge's peak though.

 

[NatF]

Jack Kramer ranked Budge as more consistent than Vines overall. Vines' peak was greater than Budge's peak though.

I value peak level quite abit, Vines has that sort of mystique Hoad has - a very high peak level of play.

Budge did beat Vines in their only meeting in the majors, but Vines was obviously on the downturn. I rank them quite closely if I'm honest. Budge probably would have won more in the pro ranks if the war had coincided with his career etc...

 

[kiki]

kiki, Of course. I mostly even would enjoy an agreement of us about Fraser vs. Roche ;-)

Roche may be more talented but Fraser was the champ.Both excelent left handed servers, very strong volleys, very good FH.Roche had a bit better BH.Both fit ( except when Roche had those injuries), but Neale was a more competitive breed IMO.

 

[BobbyOne]

Budge did the Grand Slam only as an amateur (obviously) so no I don't rank him greater than Vines.

NatF, Good to read this.

 

[BobbyOne]

Roche may be more talented but Fraser was the champ.Both excelent left handed servers, very strong volleys, very good FH.Roche had a bit better BH.Both fit ( except when Roche had those injuries), but Neale was a more competitive breed IMO.

kiki, I think that Roche had a much better volley than Fraser.

 

[kiki]

kiki, I think that Roche had a much better volley than Fraser.

Not by that much.Fraser was as steady up there as they come ( from ozz)

 

[BobbyOne]

Not by that much.Fraser was as steady up there as they come ( from ozz)

kiki, Roche is most probably one of the 7 greatest volleyers of all time, at bh arguably even the GOAT, together with Rosewall.

Fraser might be one of the best 40 all-time volleyers....

Vive la difference!

 

[kiki]

Bobby
Will you relax a bit?
I perfectly know Roche is one of the best ever volleyers
I watched him live and peak!!!

 

[BobbyOne]

Bobby
Will you relax a bit?
I perfectly know Roche is one of the best ever volleyers
I watched him live and peak!!!

kiki, That's fine. I only saw Roche in doubles and on video clips.

I'm never able to relax when somebody is saying a non-reasonable thing.

You seem even so much relaxed that you are able to compare a GOOD volleyer with a possible GOAT volleyer...

 

[kiki]

kiki, That's fine. I only saw Roche in doubles and on video clips.

I'm never able to relax when somebody is saying a non-reasonable thing.

You seem even so much relaxed that you are able to compare a GOOD volleyer with a possible GOAT volleyer...

I don' put em in the same volley class
But the gap may be closer than you think

B T W also saw Fraser but not prime

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZfjmr6-X4

'Rod Laver vs Ken Rosewall Pro Tour Sydney 1963'

 

[BobbyOne]

I don' put em in the same volley class
But the gap may be closer than you think

B T W also saw Fraser but not prime

kiki, It's a pity that Fraser declined rather soon. I saw him playing (albeit as late as 1975) with a rather big belly...

 

[kiki]

kiki, It's a pity that Fraser declined rather soon. I saw him playing (albeit as late as 1975) with a rather big belly...

If that makes you happy me watched Rosewall
demolish him