Rublev as a Backhand Model

BallBag

Semi-Pro
What do you call that slappy thing he does? I know every good backhand has it but you can really see it in his.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
What do you call that slappy thing he does? I know every good backhand has it but you can really see it in his.
You must be talking about racquet lag (forearm/racquet angle). If so ... Hewitt was decent :p without it.

After watching Medvedev reach the top of the game with that chicken wingy 2hbh ... we have to divide the discussion between 1) cosmetically appealing ... and 2) how much $ is it making. 8-B I do not prefer how Rublev's initial backswing stops short of pointing at back fence (like Djokovic) ... but then he goes from there to great slot racquet drop/lag position (that slappy thing) ... so just doesn't matter. He probably is a decent model for a rec position ... minimized backswing and drop. That said ... for me on all strokes .. gotta have some decent backswing to enjoy it.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
I freaking love his BH.

J
As far as Russians go:

Safin's BH > Meddy's BH > Ruby's BH

Meddy even runs around his FH sometimes to hit a BH!

@J011yroger - What do you prefer about Rublev's BH compared to Medvedev? (besides that it's a little more aesthetically pleasing - but if it were just about aesthetics, than 1HBH is superior :) )
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
You must be talking about racquet lag (forearm/racquet angle). If so ... Hewitt was decent :p without it.

After watching Medvedev reach the top of the game with that chicken wingy 2hbh ... we have to divide the discussion between 1) cosmetically appealing ... and 2) how much $ is it making. 8-B I do not prefer how Rublev's initial backswing stops short of pointing at back fence (like Djokovic) ... but then he goes from there to great slot racquet drop/lag position (that slappy thing) ... so just doesn't matter. He probably is a decent model for a rec position ... minimized backswing and drop. That said ... for me on all strokes .. gotta have some decent backswing to enjoy it.
Yeah but you are focused on the stuff that doesn't matter. Ask yourself this - are you turning to the side every single time and dropping the racquet under the ball? If you can say yes 100% of the time, you will find that a lot of the other questions answer themselves.

For example if you were dong this every time and from there simply pulling the frame up and across contact and generating a heavy consistent backhand - would you care about where your racquet face was pointing or how your backswing looked? I sincerely doubt it.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Yeah but you are focused on the stuff that doesn't matter. Ask yourself this - are you turning to the side every single time and dropping the racquet under the ball? If you can say yes 100% of the time, you will find that a lot of the other questions answer themselves.

For example if you were dong this every time and from there simply pulling the frame up and across contact and generating a heavy consistent backhand - would you care about where your racquet face was pointing or how your backswing looked? I sincerely doubt it.
Here is where we talk past each other. When someone talks about stroke differences (arm positions, slots, drop, racquet lag, etc), it doesn’t mean they don’t think stances, unit turns, footwork, balance aren’t key elements that matter.

I would put it like this ... make your list of “the only elements that matter” on a 2hbh. As I pointed out with Medvedev ... arms straight or not, drop height, etc do indeed not matter regarding quality/level of shot.

If you stop there and don’t care ... you may end up with a Venus chicken wing 2hbh (that has won majors) ... or you may end up with a Djokovic bent/straight ... both of them with your key elements list that matter. We are rec players yacking on ttw ... we might want to strive for a style we prefer with no other advantage than we enjoy the stroke more. Also ... as rec players it’s not a given that all arm position choices are equally easy to be low UE for a twice a week player. I personally think an Agassi and Nadal straight/straight 2hbh is more difficult than a bent/bent or bent/straight ... ymmv.

FYI ... it was John Yandell’s 2hbh article talking about grips and arm position varieties in the pros ... so I think it made his “what matters” list.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Yeah but you are focused on the stuff that doesn't matter. Ask yourself this - are you turning to the side every single time and dropping the racquet under the ball? If you can say yes 100% of the time, you will find that a lot of the other questions answer themselves.

For example if you were dong this every time and from there simply pulling the frame up and across contact and generating a heavy consistent backhand - would you care about where your racquet face was pointing or how your backswing looked? I sincerely doubt it.
fyi ... my shorter answer was ... yes I cared to develop a bent/straight rather than bent/bent. He gives me more reach (used to 1hbh reach). Also .. I was starting from scratch ... why not know enough at the start to groove initial reps with your choice. Choose... or it will choose you.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Here is where we talk past each other. When someone talks about stroke differences (arm positions, slots, drop, racquet lag, etc), it doesn’t mean they don’t think stances, unit turns, footwork, balance aren’t key elements that matter.

I would put it like this ... make your list of “the only elements that matter” on a 2hbh. As I pointed out with Medvedev ... arms straight or not, drop height, etc do indeed not matter regarding quality/level of shot.

If you stop there and don’t care ... you may end up with a Venus chicken wing 2hbh (that has won majors) ... or you may end up with a Djokovic bent/straight ... both of them with your key elements list that matter. We are rec players yacking on ttw ... we might want to strive for a style we prefer with no other advantage than we enjoy the stroke more. Also ... as rec players it’s not a given that all arm position choices are equally easy to be low UE for a twice a week player. I personally think an Agassi and Nadal straight/straight 2hbh is more difficult than a bent/bent or bent/straight ... ymmv.

FYI ... it was John Yandell’s 2hbh article talking about grips and arm position varieties in the pros ... so I think it made his “what matters” list.
What actually matters is what feels natural to you as long as you do the proper basics of setting up and dropping the frame. For example, your grip can vary, so pick what feels best. When you turn to hit your backhand and have to think about your backswing, is that a good thing? I would say no.

What matters in the course of hitting the ball to me is turning on time (which a lot of players never do consistently) and dropping the frame under the ball so I can generate spin.

From there, just doing those things, you are able to develop a lot of your stroke by practicing a lot. for example your arms may work better straight, you may use a lot of left arm..its different for each player. This is why Rubelev crushes his backhand by simply dropping the frame back and swinging.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
As far as Russians go:

Safin's BH > Meddy's BH > Ruby's BH

Meddy even runs around his FH sometimes to hit a BH!

@J011yroger - What do you prefer about Rublev's BH compared to Medvedev? (besides that it's a little more aesthetically pleasing - but if it were just about aesthetics, than 1HBH is superior :) )
Uh ... did Jolly ask for 1hbh “they are so pretty “ input? :p

But they really are. That said ... in the lesser appealing spectrum ... I think we can safely Agassi, Nalbandian and Nadal are prettier than Venus, Meddy, Rublev (y)
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
What actually matters is what feels natural to you as long as you do the proper basics of setting up and dropping the frame. For example, your grip can vary, so pick what feels best. When you turn to hit your backhand and have to think about your backswing, is that a good thing? I would say no.

What matters in the course of hitting the ball to me is turning on time (which a lot of players never do consistently) and dropping the frame under the ball so I can generate spin.

From there, just doing those things, you are able to develop a lot of your stroke by practicing a lot. for example your arms may work better straight, you may use a lot of left arm..its different for each player. This is why Rubelev crushes his backhand by simply dropping the frame back and swinging.
“When you turn to hit your backhand and have to think about your backswing, is that a good thing? I would say no.”

I am talking about the “thinking about it stage”. It all fades to muscle memory. Sometimes you need to review by video ... and “think about it once again” until you don’t.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
“When you turn to hit your backhand and have to think about your backswing, is that a good thing? I would say no.”

I am talking about the “thinking about it stage”. It all fades to muscle memory. Sometimes you need to review by video ... and “think about it once again” until you don’t.
Yeah and how long does that stage last for you ? At the end of the day the goal is not to think at all. I would hope that if you went and just turned without thinking about your arms, you would already have a natural takeback.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Yeah and how long does that stage last for you ? At the end of the day the goal is not to think at all. I would hope that if you went and just turned without thinking about your arms, you would already have a natural takeback.
The first summer ... I hit over 10,000 2hbhs with the ball machine in 3-4 months. I would say I was thinking about at least parts of the stroke the entire time. I wish I had thought of video review that summer, but that came later. I didn't have a coach. If I did, I probably would have showed up day one and said ... "coach ... I want to hit a bent/straight 2hbh ... get me there".
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I still haven't forgiven them.

J
It is unbelievably hard to switch. No matter how solid it feels/looks ... if you miss that 5th stroke after hitting 4 beautiful ones you lose matches you would have won with 5 strokes in and no misses with other stroke. I think the other thing is how much auto pilot is built into mature strokes. My body does it's automatic thing on 1hbh slice ... not many surprises. With 3-4 year old 2hbh ... it can be looking really solid ... and then I get one of those awkward WTF spaz things trying to hit a very low 2hbh, or no pace, etc. It's not just lazy/bad footwork ... it's not stored in the "seen that, done that" memory.

But that 1hbh looks good ... you should switch. :p
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
The first summer ... I hit over 10,000 2hbhs with the ball machine in 3-4 months. I would say I was thinking about at least parts of the stroke the entire time. I wish I had thought of video review that summer, but that came later. I didn't have a coach. If I did, I probably would have showed up day one and said ... "coach ... I want to hit a bent/straight 2hbh ... get me there".
A good coach is the key. Its really worth it if you can find someone who knows their stuff. In SoFL there are so many here. Everything I post here is basically coaching advice, its not really coming from me.
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
I misread the title for a moment and thought it said Rublev as a hand model. I thought, wow some fans are extremely dedicated to their players.

I need to get some sleep.
 

beltsman

Legend
Rublev murders the ball. So much fun to watch him play. I think he actually needs to relax and take a chill pill before a match. He would play better.
 

Curiosity

Professional
There is nothing unique about Rublev's backhand, or his forehand for that matter. What is beautiful is how deeply grooved it is, how utterly confident he is to hit full-out, without restraint, and on both sides. What Rublev has is a good neural system. Also, he shows no sign whatever that he was taught useless or idiosyncratic technique first...and then had to unlearn it. There is no other stroke form in his brain. Lucky him, that he wasn't taught by one of those innumerable US coaches that never made it past U16's and that didn't bother to read and study tapes BEFORE teaching the 10-14-year-olds. "Error in teaching amounts to deliberate sin." -Talmud
 
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