Rules Question (Verdasco v. Tsonga)

gully

Professional
Verdasco serving to Tsonga today, shanks first serve beyond the baseline. Still in the serving position, takes second ball from pocket and hits it into stands. Then asks for new ball to hit second serve.

Technically, when he tossed the ball from his pocket sidearm and hit it into the stands, wasn't that his second serve -- and a double fault?
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
Verdasco serving to Tsonga today, shanks first serve beyond the baseline. Still in the serving position, takes second ball from pocket and hits it into stands. Then asks for new ball to hit second serve.

Technically, when he tossed the ball from his pocket sidearm and hit it into the stands, wasn't that his second serve -- and a double fault?
i wondered about that too !
imagine his reaction if the umpire considered it as a double-fault (especially as brain fission already started within his head some games before)... :rolleyes:

(was he trying to hit a bird or something ?)
 

floydcouncil

Professional
Verdasco serving to Tsonga today, shanks first serve beyond the baseline. Still in the serving position, takes second ball from pocket and hits it into stands. Then asks for new ball to hit second serve.

Technically, when he tossed the ball from his pocket sidearm and hit it into the stands, wasn't that his second serve -- and a double fault?
He didn't make an attempt to serve the 2nd ball...
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
What is the rule on this. Still very interested. When does something count as a serve? Do you have to have the intention to 'make it', to hit it into the service box?
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
If this is indeed the rule, than something else bothers me. In the past, I've seen players try to hit their opponent with a first serve. Shouldn't they (beside a code violation) also get a new first serve then, because they just intended to abuse the ball (and player) rather than hit a serve?
 

random1

Rookie
If this is indeed the rule, than something else bothers me. In the past, I've seen players try to hit their opponent with a first serve. Shouldn't they (beside a code violation) also get a new first serve then, because they just intended to abuse the ball (and player) rather than hit a serve?
No, because that is still a serve, in the sense that the intent was to win the point by hitting the opposing player.

On the other hand, if you make a bad toss, you can catch the ball on your racket, and it doesn't count as a fault, even though you "hit" the ball off your toss, it's clearly not an attempt to serve.
 

LuckyR

Legend
What is the rule on this. Still very interested. When does something count as a serve? Do you have to have the intention to 'make it', to hit it into the service box?
Every Pro who bounces the ball with their racquet better hope so, since otherwise they are all DFing every single serve.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
If the serve process didn't start it is not considered a serve. Also - at any point during the serve up until they take their swing at the ball the server can bail out.

Some people in clubs play - I've had it happen once myself - claim that if the server bails out but catches the ball with their serving racquet this constitutes a fault. This is also wrong.
 
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vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
If the serve process didn't start it is not considered a serve. Also - at any point during the serve up until they take their swing at the ball the server can bail out.

Some people in clubs play - I've had it happen once myself - claim that if the server bails out but catches the ball with their serving racquet this constitutes a fault. This is also wrong.
how do you define the beginning of the "serve process" ? is it always that obvious ?
(by asking this question, i'm thinking rather on a chang-style underhand serve than on a battistone-style serve) ;)
 

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Well I don't know if there are any specific rules for this, but I think the umpire should just judge the situation and make the call. Unless he's an idiot it shouldn't be too hard.
 

Wuppy

Professional
I remember I was at a golf tournament about 25 years ago. I was standing watching Hale Irwin tee off. I was about 10 yards to the side of him. He saw me watching, turned to me, and softly hit his ball off the tee to me. I picked it up, said "Thanks!" and put it in my pocket.

Then he teed up another one and hit it into the fairway.

I always wondered whether that would be considered a penalty. But apparently it wasn't.
 
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