Russia Banned From Winter Olympics

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In honor of the Melbourne based International Campaign To Abolish Nuclear Weapons being selected as Nobel Peace Prize winner, I propose both @Dedans Penthouse and @TheGhostOfAgassi disarm their arsenals and find common ground. After all, the award is presented in TGOA's home country and DP is a big fan of Norwegian NY Rangers forward Mats Zuccarello. TGOA should also at least tolerate Mats' Swedish teammates King Henrik Lundqvist, Mika Zibenejad and Jesper Fast.

Should I barter a peace accord, put me on the short list for the 2018 prize.
 
stringertom said:
In honor of the Melbourne based International Campaign To Abolish Nuclear Weapons being selected as Nobel Peace Prize winner, I propose both @Dedans Penthouse and @TheGhostOfAgassi disarm their arsenals and find common ground. After all, the award is presented in TGOA's home country and DP is a big fan of Norwegian NY Rangers forward Mats Zuccarello. TGOA should also at least tolerate Mats' Swedish teammates King Henrik Lundqvist, Mika Zibenejad and Jesper Fast.

Should I barter a peace accord, put me on the short list for the 2018 prize.
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Ill put you on the nomination list for Nobels peace price award 2018. You deserve it.

Im in for peace negotiations with @Dedans Penthouse
 
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stringertom said:
Watch out for her fangs. She'll bleed you dry.
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Bartelby said:
The guy that actually ran the doping defected to America where he gets to keep the benefits of his corrupt behaviour while also getting a well-paid existence as a whistleblower in the service of America.

It's all a part of American state-sponsored meddling in Russian politics.
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LOL America meddling in Russia's Politics. You can only meddle when a country has true democratic elections, and not that farcical drill they have in Russia to perpetuate the reign of that sinister ex-KGB agent.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Obama and Bush destabilised the middle east, hundreds of thousands lost their homes, fleeing or dead. Iraq and Syria. Obama been arming extremes.
Ill take Putin any day. We should thank Putin for what he has done in Syria. Europe has taken millions of refugees USA has created, Putin made peace happen.
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I really can't believe you are whitewashing Putin while pointing out all the bad things Western leaders have done! Did Putin make peace in Ukraine when he invaded it and forcibly annexed half of that country? Do you have no sympathy for the UKrainians at all or is that only reserved for victims of Western leaders? You cannot view the world with blinkers and just assume one half of it is good and the other half bad. That is just dangerous naivety. You may think what you like but personally I will take the basic freedoms we enjoy in the West any day over the repressive nature of eastern regimes like Russia and China.
 
Mainad said:
I really can't believe you are whitewashing Putin while pointing out all the bad things Western leaders have done! Did Putin make peace in Ukraine when he invaded it and forcibly annexed half of that country? Do you have no sympathy for the UKrainians at all or is that only reserved for victims of Western leaders? You cannot view the world with blinkers and just assume one half of it is good and the other half bad. That is just dangerous naivety. You may think what you like but personally I will take the basic freedoms we enjoy in the West any day over the repressive nature of eastern regimes like Russia and China.
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I believe its good and bad w both sides. I also believe the west is not innocent at all. Our freedom has paid a price. Many others been suffering for what our leaders have done.
 
Mainad said:
I really can't believe you are whitewashing Putin while pointing out all the bad things Western leaders have done! Did Putin make peace in Ukraine when he invaded it and forcibly annexed half of that country? Do you have no sympathy for the UKrainians at all or is that only reserved for victims of Western leaders? You cannot view the world with blinkers and just assume one half of it is good and the other half bad. That is just dangerous naivety. You may think what you like but personally I will take the basic freedoms we enjoy in the West any day over the repressive nature of eastern regimes like Russia and China.
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Ai Weiwei might agree to disagree with me but I actually believe life under Xi Jinping and his successors will be less oppressive than life under KGB Putin and his successors.
 
stringertom said:
Ai Weiwei might agree to disagree with me but I actually believe life under Xi Jinping and his successors will be less oppressive than life under KGB Putin and his successors.
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Not sure those poor migrants in Beijing who have just had their homes bulldozed on government orders and been turned out into the street in the middle of a bitter Beijing winter would agree! Needless to say news about that is being carefully censored on government orders and western reporters are being harassed for trying to report on it!!
 
r2473 said:
Having read @Dedans Penthouse vintage stuff from years ago, it's funny to watch him battle the wits of present day posters using about 1/100th of his arsenal (because the mods won't allow him to use his full force) and still win.
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Dedans is a female... But talks like a trucker
 
I think you are unable to understand the meaning of the word 'meddle'.

Or you are trying to excuse American meddling in other people's politics by the usual racist trick of asserting their inferiority.

Comb Over Champion said:
LOL America meddling in Russia's Politics. You can only meddle when a country has true democratic elections, and not that farcical drill they have in Russia to perpetuate the reign of that sinister ex-KGB agent.
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r2473 said:
Having read @Dedans Penthouse vintage stuff from years ago, it's funny to watch him battle the wits of present day posters using about 1/100th of his arsenal (because the mods won't allow him to use his full force) and still win.
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I dont really feel out battled, his way of battling isnt very intimitading or smart. Maybe because english not my best language. Its other posters in here I think has been doing it much smarter and powerful.
 
Ukraine was taken over by American-backed neo-Nazis who chased Ukaine's legitimate leader from the country. America, in short, started a civil war in Ukraine, as it did in Syria.

But, of course, you know all this as it is established fact.

Mainad said:
I really can't believe you are whitewashing Putin while pointing out all the bad things Western leaders have done! Did Putin make peace in Ukraine when he invaded it and forcibly annexed half of that country? Do you have no sympathy for the UKrainians at all or is that only reserved for victims of Western leaders? You cannot view the world with blinkers and just assume one half of it is good and the other half bad. That is just dangerous naivety. You may think what you like but personally I will take the basic freedoms we enjoy in the West any day over the repressive nature of eastern regimes like Russia and China.
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Bartelby said:
Ukraine was taken over by American-backed neo-Nazis who chased Ukaine's legitimate leader from the country. American, in short, started a civil war in Ukraine, as it did in Syria,
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You mean the 'legitimate leader' who ousted the real legitimate leader in the first place? Your quaint notion that Putin and Russia are perfect angels and that all the ills in the world are caused by wicked Americans and other assorted westerners is as comic as it is absurd. I'm sure the average Ukrainian you speak to about this will be unable to give an objective and realistic account of Putin's naked power grab in Crimea because he or she will so obviously be an agent of the CIA or some other neo-**** American agency.
 
So you are speaking for the 'average Ukrainian' now? When were you appointed to this role?

I prefer someone who relies on fact, not Ukrainian prejudices.

Mainad said:
You mean the 'legitimate leader' who ousted the real legitimate leader in the first place? Your quaint notion that Putin and Russia are perfect angels and that all the ills in the world are caused by wicked Americans and other assorted westerners is as comic as it is absurd. I'm sure the average Ukrainian you speak to about this will be unable to give an objective and realistic account of Putin's naked power grab in Crimea because he or she will so obviously be an agent of the CIA or some other neo-**** American agency.
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Bartelby said:
Ukraine was taken over by American-backed neo-Nazis who chased Ukaine's legitimate leader from the country. American, in short, started a civil war in Ukraine, as it did in Syria.

But, of course, you know all this as it is established fact.
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Backing extremist is what they do. Not only in Syria and Ukraine.
 
Bartelby said:
S
I prefer someone who relies on fact, not Ukrainian prejudices.
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Ah, so in your view Russians and those who are pro-Russian are the only ones in possession of facts while Ukrainians and others merely have prejudices!

So it is a fact that Russia invaded and seized part of the territory of a neighbouring sovereign nation and mere prejudice on the part of the citizens of that nation who have the effrontery to criticise this?
 
You asserted that you spoke for the 'average Ukrainian' and his prejudices. I did not accuse you of this.

America chose war in Ukraine. I sincerely wish they had not. You prefer that they did, obviously.

Mainad said:
Ah, so in your view Russians and those who are pro-Russian are the only ones in possession of facts while Ukrainians and others merely have prejudices!

So it is a fact that Russia invaded and seized part of the territory of a neighbouring sovereign nation and mere prejudice on the part of the citizens of that nation who have the effrontery to criticise this?
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Bartelby said:
I think you are unable to understand the meaning of the word 'meddle'.

Or you are trying to excuse American meddling in other people's politics by the usual racist trick of asserting their inferiority.
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The US has many faults as a country, to be sure. The main difference between the US and places with de facto dictatorial regimes like Russia is that its citizens can openly complain about such faults, and bring their grievances to their ruling class without fear of suffering government incarceration or execution. That is what you seem unable to comprehend.
 
Bartelby said:
You asserted that you spoke for the 'average Ukrainian' and his prejudices. I did not accuse you of this.
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I asserted nothing of the kind. I am going on what I saw and read from news reports on what was happening in Ukraine and the comments and interviews with what I assumed to be average Ukrainians. But no doubt you will try to persuade me that they were all working for the CIA?

Bartelby said:
America chose war in Ukraine. I sincerely wish they had not. You prefer that they did, obviously.
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Call me old fashioned but I didn't actually notice any American tanks rolling into Ukraine. I did, however, notice plenty of Russian ones rolling into Ukraine and I sincerely wished they had not.
 
Mainad said:
You mean the 'legitimate leader' who ousted the real legitimate leader in the first place? Your quaint notion that Putin and Russia are perfect angels and that all the ills in the world are caused by wicked Americans and other assorted westerners is as comic as it is absurd. I'm sure the average Ukrainian you speak to about this will be unable to give an objective and realistic account of Putin's naked power grab in Crimea because he or she will so obviously be an agent of the CIA or some other neo-**** American agency.
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Well, they have indeed been backing neo nazis in Ukraine. If you know the history, many Ukraines supported the nazis under the 2WW.
Its still many full **** believers in Ukraine, a lot of anti semitism. If there is any country in Europe with a lot of nazies it is Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
They are openly anti semitic.
This kind of **** movements we really dont want in Europe.


Crimea is a part of Ukraine that has mostly people that identify themselves as Russians.
 
You are, indeed, old=fashioned. Rolling tanks into foreign countries has been considered bad military strategy since Iraq.

But as someone who follows the 'average Ukrainian', you surely also follow the shifts in American defence policy?

Mainad said:
I asserted nothing of the kind. I am going on what I saw and read from news reports on what was happening in Ukraine and the comments and interviews with what I assumed to be average Ukrainians. But no doubt you will try to persuade me that they were all working for the CIA?



Call me old fashioned but I didn't actually notice any American tanks rolling into Ukraine. I did, however, notice plenty of Russian ones rolling into Ukraine and I sincerely wished they had not.
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Mainad said:
Call me old fashioned but I didn't actually notice any American tanks rolling into Ukraine. I did, however, notice plenty of Russian ones rolling into Ukraine and I sincerely wished they had not.
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Nato it is.


Crimea belongs to Russia in my opinion. Its Russians living there. Europe wants it as its sort of a Pearl Harbour part and and also important place in case of attacking Russia.
Nato and Europe is using Ukraine for military position. Dont really think anyone really cares for the Ukraines. And for sure it doesn't seem like anyone care about the politics there and all the hate and nationalism, white pride and sort of crazy things going on there.
 
Bartelby said:
You are, indeed, old=fashioned. Rolling tanks into foreign countries has been considered bad military strategy since Iraq.
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It worked well enough for Putin. He now has possession of Crimea!

Bartelby said:
But as someone who follows the 'average Ukrainian', you surely also follow the shifts in American defence policy?
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Well, I try to but the present administration doesn't make it very easy admittedly.
 
Mainad said:
As opposed to backing a moderate peace-maker like Assad who unleashes chemical weapons on children?
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Assad is a terrible leader, but he is better than what has been going on since Obama attacked Syria. Iraq was better too before the war. To attack a country and meddling in like they do never really works out. Its other ways to help countries.

Fight fire with fire and everything will burn.

But.... when will we learn?
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Well, they have indeed been backing neo nazis in Ukraine. If you know the history, many Ukraines supported the nazis under the 2WW.
Its still many full **** believers in Ukraine, a lot of anti semitism. If there is any country in Europe with a lot of nazies it is Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
They are openly anti semitic.
This kind of **** movements we really dont want in Europe.

Crimea is a part of Ukraine that has mostly people that identify themselves as Russians.
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The history between Russia and Ukraine is complicated. Many Ukrainians saw the Nazis as liberators come to rescue them from Stalin's tyranny and the memory of the millions of people who died from starvation in Ukraine a decade earlier as a result of Stalin's economic policies.

Many countries have their far-right extremists. Do you really think there are no neo-Nazis in Russia?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4754016/Russian-extremists-training-neo-****-s-Europe.html

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/neo-nazis-and-illegal-fights-german-and-russian-59718
 
I dont know much about russia, only what i read. But arent the area's they invade islamic?
 
Bartelby said:
They used a referendum and the people of Crimea chose Russia.
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Did the Ukrainian government permit this referedum given that Crimea is part of their sovereign territory? If not, then it had no legal validity anymore than Catalonia's recent referendum had any legal validity in Spain.
 
America's neighbourhood is Latin, apart from Canada, so they dominate the Latins under the Monroe doctrine.

Russia has a southern flank that is mainly Islamic, so that causes issues from time to time.

Chadillac said:
I dont know much about russia, only what i read. But arent the area's they invade islamic?
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Mainad said:
The history between Russia and Ukraine is complicated. Many Ukrainians saw the Nazis as liberators come to rescue them from Stalin's tyranny and the memory of the millions of people who died from starvation in Ukraine a decade earlier as a result of Stalin's economic policies.

Many countries have their far-right extremists. Do you really think there are no neo-Nazis in Russia?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4754016/Russian-extremists-training-neo-****-s-Europe.html

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/neo-nazis-and-illegal-fights-german-and-russian-59718
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Of course I know about the neo nazies in Russia.
But they dont run the country or is anywhere as big pr capita compared to Ukraine.
Whats going on in Ukraine is far more severe. Its a big part of the nation that is white pride and anti semitic, its not like its some small extreme group.
Ukraine politics is very scary. It is incredible this is going on in 2017.

Not only Ukraine saw the nazies as saviours, the Polish did as well.
Its still not an excuse for whats going on right now and we supporting them.

Crimea is not Ukraine, it belongs to Russia.
 
Ukraine has a puppet government in charge of a rump state so I don't think its opinions count for much.

It is a failed state.

Mainad said:
Did the Ukrainian government permit this referedum given that Crimea is part of their sovereign territory? If not, then it had no legal validity anymore than Catalonia's recent referendum had any legal validity in Spain.
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TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Of course I know about the neo nazies in Russia.
But they dont run the country or is anywhere as big pr capita compared to Ukraine.
Whats going on in Ukraine is far more severe. Its a big part of the nation that is white pride and anti semitic, its not like its some small extreme group.
Ukraine politics is very scary. It is incredible this is going on in 2017.
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Well, you clearly don't like Ukrainians much, do you? But if you think that Russia is not driven by nationalistic forces almost as extreme, think again. Putin taps into Russian nationalism and uses it as the basis for his power and popularity. Opponents, be they politicians, industrialists or journalists tend to end up in prison and very often dead.

TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Not only Ukraine saw the nazies as saviours, the Polish did as well.
Its still not an excuse for whats going on right now and we supporting them.
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I beg your pardon, they did not! Who were the Nazis supposed to be liberating the Poles from? They invaded the country and killed millions of Polish people. At the same time the Russians invaded the eastern part of the country as a result of terms agreed in the ****-Soviet Pact concluded shortly before the invasion. Towards the end of the war, when the Polish resistance rose up to try to retake Warsaw from the Nazis, the Soviet army camped on the far side of the river and waited until the Nazis had destroyed the Polish resistance and burned Warsaw to the ground. The Russians did not want any possible Polish resistance to their installation of a Communist government once the war ended.

TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Crimea is not Ukraine, it belongs to Russia.
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It was a legal part of Ukraine and forcibly stolen.
 
Ukraine was Russian and part of it is Russian by ethnicity, choice and, with regard to the Crimean naval base, by legal agreement. America tried to steal it from Russia. Russia had no choice but to defend its people and its interests.

Mainad said:
Lol...well it certainly is a rump state now that part of it was stolen by Russia!
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Bartelby said:
Ukraine was Russian and part of it is Russian by ethnicity, choice and, with regard to the Crimean naval base, by legal agreement. America tried to steal it from Russia. Russia had no choice but to defend its people and its interests.
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Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire and then part of the Soviet Union. It was never a part of Russia. Putin used any contrived excuse he could come up with to reverse the post Soviet settlement and re-annex Ukraine to his new Russian Empire. So far, he has succeeded only in taking Crimea. What's left of Ukraine desperately needs the help and support of the rest of Europe and other Western powers to ensure that Putin doesn't steal the rest of their country from them.
 
I know all this, but I did not want to pad out my reply. Long story short: Ukraine was a part of the Russian empire and its successor states because its people and interests lie, in part, there.

Russia allowed an independent Ukraine on certain legal and political conditions, but they squandered their independence and threatened the Russian people and it interests by becoming an American puppet state.

Mainad said:
Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire and then part of the Soviet Union. It was never a part of Russia. Putin used any contrived excuse he could come up with to reverse the post Soviet settlement and re-annex Ukraine to his new Russian Empire. So far, he has succeeded only in taking Crimea. What's left of Ukraine desperately needs the help and support of the rest of Europe and other Western powers to ensure that Putin doesn't steal the rest of their country from them.
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Mainad said:
Well, you clearly don't like Ukrainians much, do you? But if you think that Russia is not driven by nationalistic forces almost as extreme, think again. Putin taps into Russian nationalism and uses it as the basis for his power and popularity. Opponents, be they politicians, industrialists or journalists tend to end up in prison and very often dead.



I beg your pardon, they did not! Who were the Nazis supposed to be liberating the Poles from? They invaded the country and killed millions of Polish people. At the same time the Russians invaded the eastern part of the country as a result of terms agreed in the ****-Soviet Pact concluded shortly before the invasion. Towards the end of the war, when the Polish resistance rose up to try to retake Warsaw from the Nazis, the Soviet army camped on the far side of the river and waited until the Nazis had destroyed the Polish resistance and burned Warsaw to the ground. The Russians did not want any possible Polish resistance to their installation of a Communist government once the war ended.



It was a legal part of Ukraine and forcibly stolen.
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I clearly not liking Ukraines? What kind of an argument is that? I dont like their politics, doesnt mean I dont like them as human beings.
If Putin had the same opinions as some of these politicians we would have been in a lot of more troubles. We are talking violent racism here and denial of holocaust. I cannot support that. Putin has been far more peaceful than the west and nato has been.


So many Poles believed and believes to this day that being under Germany was better than being under Soviet. That the Germans helped them financially. This and also the Ukrainia history is something us in the west have a hard time to accept. That millions of people preferred the nazies over "the nice countries".
You can meet Poles and Ukrainians, nice hard working people, that denies holocaust and think the Nazies really were good.

Its very complicated.
But Crimea got mostly Russians. Im only talking about Crimea, not whole Ukraine.
And the west supporting **** groups in Ukraine is dangerous, as it will only create new conflicts.
 
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