S&V (plus R&V) effective against pusher

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
In the last months, I was frustrated by an opponent who was a better pusher than I was, as well as younger and more fit to run most everything down, send it back, and wait for my exhaustion and unforced errors. The first match I tried serve and volley (and return and volley), I got beat, because he's also got a great lob, especially when the approach shot gives him time to see me coming and set his feet.

Tweaking my strategy a bit turned the tables. I got more conservative waiting for a better approach shot before charging the net and stopping right in front of the service line to give me more time to react, chase down lobs, and decide where to go with more aggressive volleys. I spent more time in "no man's land" daring him to try and make me pay with paced and deep rally balls (he couldn't). I also moved in to about half way between the base line and service line for return of serve, daring him to try and ace me. These factors combined to give me a 6-2, 6-3 victory; whereas, the most recent match before this was 7-5, 6-0 (was outta gas for the whole second set.)

Bottom line: most pushers are pushers because they have no pace - they can't beat you with pace and struggle keeping the ball in when they hit it hard. This makes approaching and staying at depths from just inside the service line to the middle of no man's land much more workable.
 

darkhorse

Semi-Pro
I had to do this against a pusher last week, and it worked but it's not a comfortable spot to be on the court for me. I was taught to stay away from no man's land at all costs but the ball was landing far too short for me to stay at the baseline and, as you described, a good approach wasn't always easy (though my opponent's passing shots/lobs weren't as effective). My biggest issue is just staying engaged in the match, I feel like Kyrgios sometimes out there, just get me off the court as quick as possible.
 

leech

Semi-Pro
Nice tweak in tactics...tennis matches are often a battle of wits.

I suspect some would call me a pusher, and the opponents who give me the most problems are ones who hover around the service line and challenge me to make that unprofitable for them. (Also, those that hit with extreme pace and don't make enough errors...so in other words, I also have problems beating players who are way better than me, ha.)
 
In the last months, I was frustrated by an opponent who was a better pusher than I was, as well as younger and more fit to run most everything down, send it back, and wait for my exhaustion and unforced errors. The first match I tried serve and volley (and return and volley), I got beat, because he's also got a great lob, especially when the approach shot gives him time to see me coming and set his feet.

Tweaking my strategy a bit turned the tables. I got more conservative waiting for a better approach shot before charging the net and stopping right in front of the service line to give me more time to react, chase down lobs, and decide where to go with more aggressive volleys. I spent more time in "no man's land" daring him to try and make me pay with paced and deep rally balls (he couldn't). I also moved in to about half way between the base line and service line for return of serve, daring him to try and ace me. These factors combined to give me a 6-2, 6-3 victory; whereas, the most recent match before this was 7-5, 6-0 (was outta gas for the whole second set.)

Bottom line: most pushers are pushers because they have no pace - they can't beat you with pace and struggle keeping the ball in when they hit it hard. This makes approaching and staying at depths from just inside the service line to the middle of no man's land much more workable.

While I don't think of myself as a pusher, others might think that I am a pusher, but I've seen a similar strategy against me and the way I try to beat it is to hit right near the feet of the guy hovering around the service line. Essentially the strategy of hovering around the service line takes away my best shot (my lob), but since my passing shots are good too, once I realize that's what my opponent is doing, I adjust my game and go to passing shots near the opponent's feet.

So, bottom line is don't be surprised if the pusher all of the sudden is trying to pass you instead of lob you now.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
In the last months, I was frustrated by an opponent who was a better pusher than I was, as well as younger and more fit to run most everything down, send it back, and wait for my exhaustion and unforced errors. The first match I tried serve and volley (and return and volley), I got beat, because he's also got a great lob, especially when the approach shot gives him time to see me coming and set his feet.

Tweaking my strategy a bit turned the tables. I got more conservative waiting for a better approach shot before charging the net and stopping right in front of the service line to give me more time to react, chase down lobs, and decide where to go with more aggressive volleys. I spent more time in "no man's land" daring him to try and make me pay with paced and deep rally balls (he couldn't). I also moved in to about half way between the base line and service line for return of serve, daring him to try and ace me. These factors combined to give me a 6-2, 6-3 victory; whereas, the most recent match before this was 7-5, 6-0 (was outta gas for the whole second set.)

Bottom line: most pushers are pushers because they have no pace - they can't beat you with pace and struggle keeping the ball in when they hit it hard. This makes approaching and staying at depths from just inside the service line to the middle of no man's land much more workable.
My cousin, who is extremely fast was a pusher. I used to approach the net all the time against him because he didn't have great passing shots. It was easier than trying to outgrind him.

In those days my overhead and volley were better. I'm not sure if I could do that now.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
In the last months, I was frustrated by an opponent who was a better pusher than I was, as well as younger and more fit to run most everything down, send it back, and wait for my exhaustion and unforced errors. The first match I tried serve and volley (and return and volley), I got beat, because he's also got a great lob, especially when the approach shot gives him time to see me coming and set his feet.

Tweaking my strategy a bit turned the tables. I got more conservative waiting for a better approach shot before charging the net and stopping right in front of the service line to give me more time to react, chase down lobs, and decide where to go with more aggressive volleys. I spent more time in "no man's land" daring him to try and make me pay with paced and deep rally balls (he couldn't). I also moved in to about half way between the base line and service line for return of serve, daring him to try and ace me. These factors combined to give me a 6-2, 6-3 victory; whereas, the most recent match before this was 7-5, 6-0 (was outta gas for the whole second set.)

Bottom line: most pushers are pushers because they have no pace - they can't beat you with pace and struggle keeping the ball in when they hit it hard. This makes approaching and staying at depths from just inside the service line to the middle of no man's land much more workable.

Well done. What you did is exactly what I would have advised if your post ended at the first paragraph. Congrats on thinking on your feet.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
So, bottom line is don't be surprised if the pusher all of the sudden is trying to pass you instead of lob you now.

That's OK: the first objective is to take the pusher out of his comfort zone. @MathGeek successfully did that. Now the pusher has to start hitting higher risk shots [driving the ball or hitting angled passers] and he doesn't like doing that. Yes it's possible he will adapt and still win. That's not the point: the point is to make him hit shots that are uncomfortable because that will raise your chances of winning.

I'm betting the typical pusher can't just turn on passing shots like a light switch because he doesn't practice them.
 
That's OK: the first objective is to take the pusher out of his comfort zone. @MathGeek successfully did that. Now the pusher has to start hitting higher risk shots [driving the ball or hitting angled passers] and he doesn't like doing that. Yes it's possible he will adapt and still win. That's not the point: the point is to make him hit shots that are uncomfortable because that will raise your chances of winning.

I'm betting the typical pusher can't just turn on passing shots like a light switch because he doesn't practice them.

Yep, you are very right. I would much rather hit lob shots than passing shots. I can hit passing shots for variety when my opponent comes to the net and because I can hit winners off of passing shots, but hit exclusively passing shots does add more risk to my game than if I am hitting lob shots often when my opponent comes to the net.
 

Rattler

Hall of Fame
Serve and volley along with chip and charge is all about picking your spots...your approach has to be in the right spot to rob time, make opponent uncomfortable...to pop up a duck or a predictable passing shot
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Serve and volley along with chip and charge is all about picking your spots...your approach has to be in the right spot to rob time, make opponent uncomfortable...to pop up a duck or a predictable passing shot

Also, some opponents tighten up when someone approaches the net and they give away free points even if the serve/approach was less than stellar. if you recognize that in your opponent, exploit it for all it's worth until either you win or they adapt.
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
I adjust my game and go to passing shots near the opponent's feet.

So, bottom line is don't be surprised if the pusher all of the sudden is trying to pass you instead of lob you now.

Great insight. That is exactly what happened. Fortunately, my opponent's execution was not as good as it might have been, so he mostly went back to lobbing. He did have a couple great passing shots and a couple great shots at my feet. But on the whole, as a pusher, he tends not to have the pace or accuracy needed for good passing shots, and he tends to have too much net clearance for shots at my feet. There is enough time to come up (usually) and take it out of the air before it gets low.

Well done. What you did is exactly what I would have advised if your post ended at the first paragraph. Congrats on thinking on your feet.

I wish I had come up with the strategy "thinking on my feet" but it came together while discussing the challenges of this opponent with my son (a fairly highly ranked B18 junior).

That's OK: the first objective is to take the pusher out of his comfort zone. @MathGeek successfully did that. Now the pusher has to start hitting higher risk shots [driving the ball or hitting angled passers] and he doesn't like doing that. Yes it's possible he will adapt and still win. That's not the point: the point is to make him hit shots that are uncomfortable because that will raise your chances of winning.

I'm betting the typical pusher can't just turn on passing shots like a light switch because he doesn't practice them.

Exactly right. If pushers had the pace and accuracy required for good passing shots, they would not be pushers.

Serve and volley along with chip and charge is all about picking your spots...your approach has to be in the right spot to rob time, make opponent uncomfortable...to pop up a duck or a predictable passing shot

Great observation. Deciding when to go to the net was a big part of my improvement in strategy. There are a lot of subtleties in opponent skills and reaction, as well as in recognizing a good approach shot.

Also, some opponents tighten up when someone approaches the net and they give away free points even if the serve/approach was less than stellar. if you recognize that in your opponent, exploit it for all it's worth until either you win or they adapt.

Exactly right. This opponent made many more unforced errors when I approached the net than during baseline rallies. Once I noticed that, I began mixing it up - fake approaches, delayed approaches, and so on to keep him off balance. Good times.
 

WhiteOut

Semi-Pro
Appreciate you posting this. Particularly the part about hanging out in no-man's land. I also tend to stay out of there as a rule, but once I see i'm playing a pusher, and he's lobbed me a couple times, i sort of don't have a choice because i'm too gassed to charge then make the quick turn back to the BL. so if that forces him to hit a better pass/crossing shot, and he can beat me with it, then God bless him...but at least i'm making him beat me with a lower percentage shot, (and i have a chance to get to it without puking!).

I've also noticed when playing dubs, when i am the net guy and been lobbed a couple times, i take a few steps back toward the service line, which seems to put pressure on the lob-returner. after i crank a few unreturnable overheads since i'm in better position, now he's forced to attempt an actual ground stroke return, which very obviously is not his preferred ROS shot...and i start creeping back up to net for the poach...all cat n mouse and that's fun.

last time i played this situation, my partner and i (3.5 players) lost 6-0, 7-5 to a pair of 4.0 players, one who had been 4.5 a few years ago before shoulder surgery. that was really fun to actually recognise something, make the adjustment, and execute. even though we lost, it felt good to do something more than just cluelessly react, and to impose our will on the opponent, especially more advanced players than us. they kept looking at each other like 'what should we do here', and during handshake the former 4.5 made a point to complement us on the adjustment...that was nice validation...
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Nice job changing strategy. I s&v naturally, because that’s how I learned to play. Another tactic is to “delay” your s&v. Serve the ball and wait a few seconds to come in. This usually baffles pushers, because it makes them have to make a decision in an instant.

Do you end up hitting a lot more swinging volleys in those cases?
 

cdub95

New User
Sometimes, depends on the level of the pusher. Most of the time, you get a softy to put away. This strategy protects you against lobs because most of the time you are receiving the next shot at the service line. You have some what cut the court in half. You don’t have far to go to get to the lob for an overhead, or close in on the net for an easy put away.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Incidentally, that's one of the charms of tennis. You can figure out a plan (assuming you are within a reasonable playing level of each other) of how to defeat your opponent. He or she may figure out another plan etc etc etc. It is very satisfying to use that plan to defeat an opponent you were losing to.
 

dnguyen

Hall of Fame
For me, I always attack the first and second serve enabling me to chip and charge and try to confuse an opponent to watch my movement at half volley left or right depending on where I slice backhand, make sure the ball must be near the baseline or give it to someone who think they can hit backhand or forehand.
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
Sometimes, depends on the level of the pusher. Most of the time, you get a softy to put away. This strategy protects you against lobs because most of the time you are receiving the next shot at the service line. You have some what cut the court in half. You don’t have far to go to get to the lob for an overhead, or close in on the net for an easy put away.

I'm a pusher too, so I'm not as good as I could be at putting away softies. I do manage to get some pace on them, but the angles are poor and my pusher opponent ends up sending a lot back that should be winners. I need to learn to play the angles rather than hitting them hard.

Incidentally, that's one of the charms of tennis. You can figure out a plan (assuming you are within a reasonable playing level of each other) of how to defeat your opponent. He or she may figure out another plan etc etc etc. It is very satisfying to use that plan to defeat an opponent you were losing to.

Yeh, we'll see what this opponent dials up next. I may not see him again for a while, as I'm shifting focus to doubles in prep for a big state doubles tourney next month. But the focus on charging the net should pay off in doubles.

For me, I always attack the first and second serve enabling me to chip and charge and try to confuse an opponent to watch my movement at half volley left or right depending on where I slice backhand, make sure the ball must be near the baseline or give it to someone who think they can hit backhand or forehand.

I'll have to give the ole chip and charge more of a chance in doubles against weak servers.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm a pusher too, so I'm not as good as I could be at putting away softies. I do manage to get some pace on them, but the angles are poor and my pusher opponent ends up sending a lot back that should be winners. I need to learn to play the angles rather than hitting them hard.

The shortest distance to the nearest obstacle is usually to a side fence.


I'll have to give the ole chip and charge more of a chance in doubles against weak servers.

IME, you will win a lot of points merely coming to the net: they will panic, rush the shot, overhit, etc. Not every time, of course. And the better teams, not at all. But a team which might otherwise be solid on the return might be considerably weaker with 2 at the net.
 

ShaunS

Semi-Pro
I was taught to stay away from no man's land at all costs
I think you've been given a little too strict of advice about "no man's land". The danger is if you stay there that balls can be easily placed at your feet or behind you, but it's a great place to be hitting your approach shots. While it's possible to hit the deep, driving shots that put your opponents on the defensive from the baseline that's much harder. I'm always looking for the shorter ball that allows me to step into "no man's land" to hit my approach from there. If I can get them to turn even slightly back, I'm coming hard behind that shot.

This is true against players of all types, but against a "pusher" who is regularly failing to hit the ball deep you can feast since they're unlikely to have the pace to truly punish you on the occasional deep ball.

I agree with the rest of the discussion about forcing players to hit passing shots. Sometimes you will run into a player who can, but for the majority take the straightest path to victory.
 
Top