Safin and Ounna are fitter than Nadal and Djokovic

[IvanAndreevich]

Marat Safin at nearly 30 years of age and Ounna, a WC playing in his first GS event managed to get through an epic 5 set match on clay without significantly abusing the time rule today. 4 hours and 30 minutes of tennis with less than 20 seconds between points on average. It was very fun to watch.

Ounna, who won the match, also played the first 5 setter of his life in R1 against Grannollers. Was he tired? Yes, he was visibly tired in some points of the match. Thankfully, he played by the rules. Big kudos to him for that. Same goes for Marat.

There were some nice rallies in the match, plenty of winners, and it was a high standard of tennis with noticeably more winners than errors. Safin had 100+ winners, including aces.

So what's the matter? I guess if run of the mill pros can do it in a high quality and very long match, why can't Nadal and Djokovic?

Discuss.

 

[gj011]

Marat Safin at nearly 30 years of age and Ounna, a WC playing in his first GS event managed to get through an epic 5 set match on clay without significantly abusing the time rule today. 4 hours and 30 minutes of tennis with less than 20 seconds between points on average. It was very fun to watch.

Ounna, who won the match, also played the first 5 setter of his life in R1 against Grannollers. Was he tired? Yes, he was visibly tired in some points of the match. Thankfully, he played by the rules. Big kudos to him for that. Same goes for Marat.

There were some nice rallies in the match, plenty of winners, and it was a high standard of tennis with noticeably more winners than errors. Safin had 100+ winners, including aces.

So what's the matter? I guess if run of the mill pros can do it in a high quality and very long match, why can't Nadal and Djokovic?

Discuss.

 

[GrassCourtFan]

They can. They, however, choose not to, because nobody ever calls them on it as they should.

 

[DarthFed]

Marat Safin at nearly 30 years of age and Ounna, a WC playing in his first GS event managed to get through an epic 5 set match on clay without significantly abusing the time rule today. 4 hours and 30 minutes of tennis with less than 20 seconds between points on average. It was very fun to watch.

Ounna, who won the match, also played the first 5 setter of his life in R1 against Grannollers. Was he tired? Yes, he was visibly tired in some points of the match. Thankfully, he played by the rules. Big kudos to him for that. Same goes for Marat.

There were some nice rallies in the match, plenty of winners, and it was a high standard of tennis with noticeably more winners than errors. Safin had 100+ winners, including aces.

So what's the matter? I guess if run of the mill pros can do it in a high quality and very long match, why can't Nadal and Djokovic?

Discuss.

While i agree and this proves that the madrid SF wasn't as sensational as some made it...this will cause a flame war if you talk about jesus-Raf in such a manner

 

[oneleggedcardinal]

Has anybody watched the Madrid SF between Nadal and Djokovic and actually timed the time breaks during the whole match?

 

[TennisandMusic]

This only became an issue when Federer started complaining. Then all of a sudden it became the most important thing in the world to a certain group of people. And only when Nadal wins. Huh.

Anyway, they are probably less tired because those guys are able to get plenty of rest since they don't really win anything. Let's see how they hold up after 4 weeks of tennis in a 5 week span. Not trying to be a pill, but come on let's be real here.

 

[BigServer1]

Has anybody watched the Madrid SF between Nadal and Djokovic and actually timed the time breaks during the whole match?

Things like this that actually add factual evidence to arguments are strongly looked down upon on these boards...

Trying to back up an argument with facts? HOW DARE YOU?

My guess is that if someone did this, your average time (note my word: average) between points would probably be 24-28 seconds, with some being shorter in between and some being longer. I think this argument is crap personally, and it's just a way for people to whine about a player that they don't like winning matches.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

Has anybody watched the Madrid SF between Nadal and Djokovic and actually timed the time breaks during the whole match?

I did the last tiebreak. It was 45 seconds on average. Minimum was around 25 seconds and maximum was 1 minute 22 seconds.

 

[TennisandMusic]

While i agree and this proves that the madrid SF wasn't as sensational as some made it...this will cause a flame war if you talk about (fixed) Nadal in such a manner

Right, because a long early round match between a guy about to retire and a qualifier is in any way similar to the two best clay court players in the world in a semifinal.

 

[DarthFed]

Right, because a long early round match between a guy about to retire and a qualifier is in any way similar to the two best clay court players in the world in a semifinal.

The comparison was between TIME, everyone was hyping it up because of how long it was when it's been proven that IT.WAS.NOT.THAT.LONG

And do stop insulting and belittling the achievements of other players to make your favorites seem better, their achievements speak for themselves anything else is excess

 

[IvanAndreevich]

Right, because a long early round match between a guy about to retire and a qualifier is in any way similar to the two best clay court players in the world in a semifinal.

Similar in length and quality of tennis. Not similar in the players abusing the rules.

 

[TennisandMusic]

The comparison was between TIME, everyone was hyping it up because of how long it was when it's been proven that IT.WAS.NOT.THAT.LONG

It was still a long match though. So what...it was maybe 30 minutes longer than another person's match might have been? It was still 4 hours of "playing" and mental wear. It was a tough match, that can't be denied. Was it longer than it would have been if one of the players had been changed? Yeah probably. But not THAT much I'm guessing. Also, it would have been much less hard fought so...

Why are people still talking about this anyway?

 

[TennisandMusic]

Similar in length and quality of tennis. Not similar in the players abusing the rules.

Again, rules which only came into focus when Federer started complaining and whining. So many guys go over the "time limit" but it only comes into focus when it's guys who are beating up on Federer for whatever reason.

Unless the match feels like it's being disrupted it's not a big deal, and IMO the matches are NOT being disrupted by and large. Especially the Djokovic and Nadal match. It felt like a normal pace to me. And Nadal is generally much better about the time these days. When was the last time he got a warning?

 

[oneleggedcardinal]

Things like this that actually add factual evidence to arguments are strongly looked down upon on these boards...

Trying to back up an argument with facts? HOW DARE YOU?

My guess is that if someone did this, your average time (note my word: average) between points would probably be 24-28 seconds, with some being shorter in between and some being longer. I think this argument is crap personally, and it's just a way for people to whine about a player that they don't like winning matches.

I haven't seen the match, but I have heard it used as a partial excuse for Nadal's loss in the final.

I did the last tiebreak. It was 45 seconds on average. Minimum was around 25 seconds and maximum was 1 minute 22 seconds.

Hmm, interesting. The last tiebreak is when I think both players would take their time the most. 45 seconds as an average is fairly long.

I'm interested in this, though. I might get the match and actually do the whole thing.

 

[DarthFed]

It was still a long match though. So what...it was maybe 30 minutes longer than another person's match might have been? It was still 4 hours of "playing" and mental wear. It was a tough match, that can't be denied. Was it longer than it would have been if one of the players had been changed? Yeah probably. But not THAT much I'm guessing. Also, it would have been much less hard fought so...

Why are people still talking about this anyway?

Because the big excuse for Nadal losing Madrid was that he played a Marathon "3 setter" (if such a thing exists) and then a five-setter with long rallies, 2 breakers and 10-8 in the 5th lasts slightly longer.

Nadal fans don't realize how much they unintentionally belittle their own god.

 

[BigServer1]

I haven't seen the match, but I have heard it used as a partial excuse for Nadal's loss in the final.

I know, I was just being sarcastic...I hate these boards for all the excuses, name calling and blaming but somehow I stick around and keep checking in and posting.

I suppose I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

[oneleggedcardinal]

I know, I was just being sarcastic...I hate these boards for all the excuses, name calling and blaming but somehow I stick around and keep checking in and posting.

I suppose I'm a glutton for punishment.

I picked up on the sarcasm, don't worry about that. My sarcasm detector is top-of-the-line.

 

[BigServer1]

I picked up on the sarcasm, don't worry about that. My sarcasm detector is top-of-the-line.

Good to know...I'll pull no sarcasm punches with you in the future.

 

[TennisandMusic]

Because the big excuse for Nadal losing Madrid was that he played a Marathon "3 setter" (if such a thing exists) and then a five-setter with long rallies, 2 breakers and 10-8 in the 5th lasts slightly longer.

Nadal fans don't realize how much they unintentionally belittle their own god.

Hey it was a factor. Of course there are hard fought 3 setters when you have to play less than 24 hours later. Clay, long match, two of the best players in the world battling it out with a few tiebreakers, including the last one which went 20 points which is nearly a sets worth (24 points to win a set). It was a long match. And it was on the tail end of 4 weeks out of 5 of solid tennis for Nadal, in a tournament he didn't seem to want to play.

It's just not that big of an issue. So you think cuz Nadal might take 30 seconds instead of 25, all of a sudden that is "rest time"? This isn't really an issue and should not be discussed. It's ONLY brought up when Nadal or Djokovic wins something.

Also I'm pretty sure there were times when there was a lot of time between points in the Safin match. He spends enough time getting mad at himself in between points to assure that.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Nadal & Djokovic played 245 points in their 3 setter at Madrid. There are 4 setters that don't have as many points played(Murray-Starace had less points played in 4 sets). It was not a typical best of 3 set match by any means.

To me it seemed like the rallies were considerably longer in the Nadal-Djokovic match(it had some of the longest rallies I've seen this year) than Safin's.

Still kudos to Safin & Ouanna for playing at a fast pace in their match.

I might get the match and actually do the whole thing.

I'd be interested in how many average strokes per point were hit in that match. I did that with several matches in Australia, & there some big fluctuations match to match. Scores don't always tell how physical a match is, many players play much longer points than others.

 

[DarthFed]

Did you see the Safin match? the time between points was short, he barely had any outbursts

And Nadal doesn't just take 30 secs, its been mentioned by many people, including those who went out of their way to count, that there was an average of 40-45 seconds per point

 

[IvanAndreevich]

To me it seemed like the rallies were considerably longer in the Nadal-Djokovic match(it had some of the longest rallies I've seen this year)

Indeed. I think if they followed the rules they would have played more aggressively. Or one of they would fall apart physically before the other (that would probably be Djokovic).

 

[gj011]

Yet another silly nonsense thread made by yet another ******* in the panic mode. Nothing new. There are at least 5 pathetic threads like this one on the first page of General Pro Player section.

Just sad and truly appalling behavior. *******s are definitely quite nervous and in the panic mode.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

Yet another silly nonsense thread made by yet another ******* in the panic mode. Nothing new. There are at least 5 pathetic threads like this one on the first page of General Pro Player section.

Just sad and truly appalling behavior. *******s are definitely quite nervous and in the panic mode.

I see you have no comment to make on the topic of the thread.

Love the wording, it's so "yet another"

 

[stoble]

I knew this was going to get ugly but I think this is a legitimate concern for tennis fans. There is a similar topic being discussed in the NBA where some are calling for instant replay, but others disagree because it SLOWS the game down even more. The common concern here is that fans don't want to watch people standing around for an hour if it can be avoided, and in tennis it's been avoided for years. It's not the biggest concern in tennis but I certainly DO NOT agree with those who totally dismiss this.

 

[Zaragoza]

"Safin and Ounna are fitter than Nadal and Djokovic"

Of course, that's what everyone thinks in the locker room. Giving Mungo and tennis-hero some tough competition, I see.

 

[P_Agony]

I see you have no comment to make on the topic of the thread.

Love the wording, it's so "yet another"

Haha, "yet another" troll post from gj011.

Anyway, I agree. Like I said in the match thread I think the Safin match proved that Nadal and Djokovic didn't play tennis for 4 hours. Take all the injury timeouts, all the time taking between points, and I think you're left with a lot less.

 

[veroniquem]

In a slam, players have a day off between each match. In masters they have to play every day.

 

[P_Agony]

Did you see the Safin match? the time between points was short, he barely had any outbursts

And Nadal doesn't just take 30 secs, its been mentioned by many people, including those who went out of their way to count, that there was an average of 40-45 seconds per point

Actually ESPN showed a timer. Both Nadal and Djokovic broke the 45 seconds record at times. We used to think taking 30-35 seconds was to abuse the rules. In this match, 30 seconds was actually considered a short break.

 

[gj011]

In a slam, players have a day off between each match. In masters they have to play every day.

A little fact which trolls like OP forget quite too often.

 

[oneleggedcardinal]

Nadal & Djokovic played 245 points in their 3 setter at Madrid. There are 4 setters that don't have as many points played(Murray-Starace had less points played in 4 sets). It was not a typical best of 3 set match by any means.

To me it seemed like the rallies were considerably longer in the Nadal-Djokovic match(it had some of the longest rallies I've seen this year) than Safin's.

Still kudos to Safin & Ouanna for playing at a fast pace in their match.



I'd be interested in how many average strokes per point were hit in that match. I did that with several matches in Australia, & there some big fluctuations match to match. Scores don't always tell how physical a match is, many players play much longer points than others.

For sure, the average strokes per point is important to take into consideration. As soon as I get my hands on the match I will definitely do a full analysis. I may take a while, though.

 

[Zaragoza]

While i agree and this proves that the madrid SF wasn't as sensational as some made it...this will cause a flame war if you talk about jesus-Raf in such a manner

Maybe it proves something in the mind of the most biased Federer fans.
If you think the quality of Safin-Ouanna was even close to the Nadal-Djokovic match in Madrid all I can say is keep watching tennis. Moya said the latter was the best 3 setter on clay he had ever seen.

Of course it's easy to make silly statements about Nadal and Djokovic and then switch to defensive mode because you know someone is going to call you out for saying that. That's how some Federer fans act here. Nice tactic but it was overused and figured out.
They spend more time criticising Nadal than talking about their Jesus Federer. It shows to me that these fans have a big Nadal complex.

 

[veroniquem]

A little fact which trolls like OP forget quite too often.

Thanks. I don't know why I keep posting it because I already have several times but the advocates of "Nadal was not tired in the Madrid final" are too excited about their bashing to pay any attention! (Actually I don't think he was tired per se, he was just a little flat) and "tiredness" is probably the wrong word, it's the length of the recovery time that makes a difference, mentally and physically. Anyway, nothing wrong in posting it again, even though to no avail I'm sure!

 

[DarthFed]

Maybe it proves something in the mind of the most biased Federer fans.
If you think the quality of Safin-Ouanna was even close to the Nadal-Djokovic match in Madrid all I can say is keep watching tennis. Moya said the latter was the best 3 setter on clay he had ever seen.

Of course it's easy to make silly statements about Nadal and Djokovic and then switch to defensive mode because you know someone is going to call you out for saying that. That's how some Federer fans act here. Nice tactic but it was overused and figured out.
They spend more time criticising Nadal than talking about their Jesus Federer. It shows to me that these fans have a big Nadal complex.

You don't even know me, you've just lumped me with *******s i'd like to think im one of the level headed ones..i hardly mention Fed at all to be honest, I don't consider myself too biased either.

Your the one with the complex for getting defensive over something that for all intents and purposes has no bearing on your life. Also why is Moya's statement relevant? whenever a pro/former pro makes a statement in Federer favor they are senile/*******s but in this case Moya is correct?

There was no tactic your looking into this far too much, when i first came here i thought you were level headed but i see i was wrong.

Sometimes i wish Fed and Nadal would go out in the first round of an event...things around here would be so enjoyable

excited about their bashing to pay any attention!

It goes both ways

 

[oy vey]

McEnroe commented on Djok's health during the Lapenti match. He said he is great from the diaphragm down which is the cause of his breathing problems.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

In a slam, players have a day off between each match. In masters they have to play every day.

You don't get it. I am not talking about FEDERER or Nadal's match with him.

I am talking ONLY about Nadal vs Djokovic. So what were Nadal and Djokovic tired from during their match with each other that required numerous time violations?

"Safin and Ounna are fitter than Nadal and Djokovic"

Of course, that's what everyone thinks in the locker room. Giving Mungo and tennis-hero some tough competition, I see.

That's based on what I saw on the court, not what someone says in some locker room. If Nadal and Djokovic are fit then they can easily keep to the time limit. Care to argue that?

I bring up a legitimate comparison and all you can do is claim I hate Nadal etc etc. You know, "yet another"...

 

[stoble]

In a slam, players have a day off between each match. In masters they have to play every day.

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but are you saying Djokovic and Nadal have never exceeded the time limit in slams?

 

[Duzza]

Marat Safin at nearly 30 years of age and Ounna, a WC playing in his first GS event

I know it's not too important, but : Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 25-May-08, O, Clay , Draw: 128

R128
Del Potro, Juan Martin (ARG)
68
3-6 2-6 3-6

This Event Points: 26, ATP Ranking: 227, Prize Money: €14,290

 

[veroniquem]

You don't get it. I am not talking about FEDERER or Nadal's match with him.

I am talking ONLY about Nadal vs Djokovic. So what were Nadal and Djokovic tired from during their match with each other that required numerous time violations?



That's based on what I saw on the court, not what someone says in some locker room. If Nadal and Djokovic are fit then they can easily keep to the time limit. Care to argue that?

I bring up a legitimate comparison and all you can do is claim I hate Nadal etc etc. You know, "yet another"...

I don't know what you're saying. Neither Djoko nor Nadal were tired in that match. The match was very intense, that's all.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

I don't know what you're saying. Neither Djoko nor Nadal were tired in that match. The match was very intense, that's all.

I am saying that Ounna and Safin just played an intense high quality 4.5 hour match without noticeably breaking the time rule. So, are they fitter than Nadal and Djokovic? Are they better at abiding by the rules?

Main excuse that was used with regards to the NvsD match was that it was so long it was justifiable that they used way way more time than the maximum between points. I don't think so.

Duzza
Thanks for the correction.

 

[veroniquem]

I am saying that Ounna and Safin just played an intense high quality 4.5 hour match without noticeably breaking the time rule. So, are they fitter than Nadal and Djokovic? Are they better at abiding by the rules?

Main excuse that was used with regards to the NvsD match was that it was so long it was justifiable that they used way way more time than the maximum between points. I don't think so.

Duzza
Thanks for the correction.

The end of the Djoko-Nadal match was so intense it brought me to tears. One of the best tie-breaks I have ever seen. When the tennis is that beautiful, I'm not counting the seconds between serves, I truly couldn't care less and I rely on umpires to deal with those technicalities. I'm like the live audience, taken in the heat of the moment, wanting to clap or cheer longer. If anything unusual happened, I'm sure umpires would give penalties but as a simple spectator, it's not my concern . I'm just relishing great tennis and spectacular instants and the excitement they provide without ever looking at a watch or even thinking about it.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

The end of the Djoko-Nadal match was so intense it brought me to tears. One of the best tie-breaks I have ever seen. When the tennis is that beautiful, I'm not counting the seconds between serves, I truly couldn't care less and I rely on umpires to deal with those technicalities. I'm like the live audience, taken in the heat of the moment, wanting to clap or cheer longer. If anything unusual happened, I'm sure umpires would give penalties but as a simple spectator, it's not my concern . I'm just relishing great tennis and spectacular instants and the excitement they provide without ever looking at a watch or even thinking about it.

Basically you said that players breaking the time rule does not bother you. Nothing wrong with that, it's just your opinion. On another note, your post is not a response to my post at all. Is that silent agreement that players who play an epic 4.5 hour match without abusing the rule are fitter than those who play a 4 hour match breaking the rules numerous times?

Come on, we all know that Nadal and Djokovic are fitter than these two. The point of this thread is to show that if these two can do than Nadal and Djokovic can DEFINITELY do it, and the excessive time is not necessary.

Just to clarify, I am not talking about just the last TB. I am talking about the whole match. The point of the recent discussions on here regarding the time rule is that the umpires are often not acting in accordance with the rules.

 

[veroniquem]

Basically you said that players breaking the time rule does not bother you. Nothing wrong with that, it's just your opinion. On another note, your post is not a response to my post at all. Is that silent agreement that players who play an epic 4.5 hour match without abusing the rule are fitter than those who play a 4 hour match breaking the rules numerous times?

Come on, we all know that Nadal and Djokovic are fitter than these two. The point of this thread is to show that if these two can do than Nadal and Djokovic can DEFINITELY do it, and the excessive time is not necessary.

Just to clarify, I am not talking about just the last TB. I am talking about the whole match. The point of the recent discussions on here regarding the time rule is that the umpires are often not acting in accordance with the rules.

I don't think anybody broke the rules. This "time between serves" business is a pain in the neck but thank god we have umpires to rush players if necessary. Personally I only focus on the quality of the tennis and to me you're way over the top in your assessment of the Djoko-Nadal match. Obviously if things had been that bad they would have had points penalty or the like, they didn't, meaning nothing unacceptable happened. As I said I love the drama, the emotions and it takes time to display those during a match. The rules are up to the umps and the supervisors. My only interest is in how talented the players are.

 

[BullDogTennis]

all i know is this match went by a lot smoother and played quicker than i have EVER seen a nadal match.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

I don't think anybody broke the rules. This "time between serves" business is a pain in the neck but thank god we have umpires to rush players if necessary. Personally I only focus on the quality of the tennis and to me you're way over the top in your assessment of the Djoko-Nadal match. Obviously if things had been that bad they would have had points penalty or the like, they didn't, meaning nothing unacceptable happened. As I said I love the drama, the emotions and it takes time to display those during a match. The rules are up to the umps and the supervisors. My only interest is in how talented the players are.

There is no denying that the maximum time taken between points in the last tiebreak was ~1 minute 22 seconds, and the average was ~45 seconds. If you don't believe me go on youtube and see for yourself.

Tennis is all about the ball going over the net in various ways. I want to see Nadal hitting winners not picking on his bottom, fixing his socks, hair, bouncing the ball 10-15 times, using the towel all the time, giving Djokovic the look, etc. That's expressing yourself - point construction, defense, passing shots, etc. That doesn't happen BETWEEN points, it happens DURING points.

I _THINK_ that most of the tennis fans are on the same page as me. You are obviously not one of them. You want over the top drama, facial expressions, etc. Maybe you should watch soap opera which will tear you up just the same? There are no annoying rules there to speak of.

Or maybe you are just defending Nadal because you like him. Maybe if Federer took too long between points and Nadal took very short, you would accuse Federer of being not fit enough, cheating, etc.

 

[veroniquem]

There is no denying that the maximum time taken between points in the last tiebreak was ~1 minute 22 seconds, and the average was ~45 seconds. If you don't believe me go on youtube and see for yourself.

Tennis is all about the ball going over the net in various ways. I want to see Nadal hitting winners not picking on his bottom, fixing his socks, hair, bouncing the ball 10-15 times, using the towel all the time, giving Djokovic the look, etc. That's expressing yourself - point construction, defense, passing shots, etc. That doesn't happen BETWEEN points, it happens DURING points.

I _THINK_ that most of the tennis fans are on the same page as me. You are obviously not one of them. You want over the top drama, facial expressions, etc. Maybe you should watch soap opera which will tear you up just the same? There are no annoying rules there to speak of.

Or maybe you are just defending Nadal because you like him. Maybe if Federer took too long between points and Nadal took very short, you would accuse Federer of being not fit enough, cheating, etc.

Nadal doesn't fix his socks anymore and certainly doesn't bounce the ball 10 to 15 times. The problem is you're exaggerating so much, it doesn't seem connected to reality at all. But anyway we can just agree to disagree. As I said before this is just an issue I have no interest in. Since you seem to feel so strongly about it, I'm sure you can find other likeminded people with whom you can discuss the subject over and over again, I'm just not one of those and that will be my final word about all this.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

Nadal doesn't fix his socks anymore and certainly doesn't bounce the ball 10 to 15 times. The problem is you're exaggerating so much, it doesn't seem connected to reality at all. But anyway we can just agree to disagree. As I said before this is just an issue I have no interest in. Since you seem to feel so strongly about it, I'm sure you can find other likeminded people with whom you can discuss the subject over and over again, I'm just not one of those and that will be my final word about all this.

Why are you saying that I am exaggerrating? It's a FACT that they took 45 seconds on AVERAGE and a maximum of 1 minute 22 seconds in the tiebreak. All the things I mentioned were done in that tiebreak. That's a fact.

It takes me only 10 seconds to wipe hands, face, overgrip, bounce the ball TWICE, figure out the game plan, and serve.

 

[seffina]

I'll disagree. I just finished watching the Safin match and I've seen the Nadal/Djokovic match three times. I've always said that I'm for the rules b/w between points being enforced equally for all players no matter the rank. However, I've never personally felt "less" entertained because of the time in between. To say that this match shows them to be fitter is not accurate. One match was a semi final on the fourth consecutive day of playing on a pretty hot day. This was a second round match after a day of rest for both players in cool conditions. The rallies were not consistently long. While in Rafa/Djokovic's match they were beating the crap out of each other on every point. Many games went to deuce and beyond (like they did in this one.) Yes, they took longer in between points. It decreased some people's enjoyment, it didn't for some of us. It has never bothered me (although again it won't bother if they enforce the rule either) and for me there is no increase in the enjoyment of the match just because the time in between to be short. I don't care about the in between. I care about the actual points, the actual tennis.

I don't think there is really a comparison between the two matches personally. I enjoyed both of the matches. I didn't particularly think the Safin was quite as high quality although there was some wonderful tennis. If you don't think the Nadal/Djokovic match was epic, that's fine. I'm not going to think it any less epic because of what happened in between points. I don't care how long the match was at all. I care about the tennis and the stakes.

(On another note, I don't think Nadal was tired for the Federer match. Federer outplayed him. It happens.)

 

[Federer_pilon]

I did the last tiebreak. It was 45 seconds on average. Minimum was around 25 seconds and maximum was 1 minute 22 seconds.

Next time you have nothing better to do, time him again but don't just do it over a tiebreak or a game. Do it at randomly over the whole match and we'll see what the average is like.

 

[kraggy]

Kudos to OP for starting a completely fresh topic which has not been discussed to death before. Congratulations on your fantastic revelation.

In fact you have inspired me to look for new discussion material. I think I will start a thread on how this is a weak clay era. I highly doubt this has been discussed before and it is bound to catch people off-guard.