Safin Wawrinka whos greater

[mike danny]

Well people typically attribute his 2016 collapse to the elbow injury so they at least imply that he was injured at the US Open.

I think it was actually something to do with his toenail at 2016 USO.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Sure, he messed up, but just saying that 2016 USO Djokovic and 2014 AO F Nadal weren't anywhere near GOAT candidates. Very ordinary level from both.

You were just making it seem like Stan defeated GOAT candidates at their absolute best in slam finals 3 times, which is not even remotely true.

Nadal and Djokovic would have each straight-setted Johansson in those finals, whether or not at their absolute best.

 

[RS]

It is very possible is Djokovic doesn't get injury effected Federer wins just one slam in 2017-18. Nadal most likely loses USO 2017 as well to be honest.

 

[mike danny]

Wawrinka beat a peaking Novak at the AO and RG.

Novak's peak at the AO > Federer's peak at the AO.

Novak is the AO king and dominates Federer 4-0 since the AO 2008.

Fed vs Novak at the AO after 2008 is entirely circumstantial. Novak didn't show up in 2009 and 2010 to take his beatings from Fed, while Fed a actually showed up injured in 2020.

 

[mike danny]

Nadal and Djokovic would have each straight-setted Johansson in those finals, whether or not at their absolute best.

But they wouldn't have beaten 2005 Federer like Safin did.

 

[Sport]

Fed vs Novak at the AO after 2008 is entirely circumstantial. Novak didn't show up in 2009 and 2010 to take his beatings from Fed, while Fed a actually showed up injured in 2020.

Who's the AO king?

 

[mike danny]

Who's the AO king?

Novak obviously, I was just explaining the 4-0 H2H and why it's circumstantial.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

But they wouldn't have beaten 2005 Federer like Safin did.

Maybe, maybe not. But I consider Stan's matches against Novak at the AO in 2013 and 2014 just as good to be honest.

 

[Third Serve]

Fed vs Novak at the AO after 2008 is entirely circumstantial. Novak didn't show up in 2009 and 2010 to take his beatings from Fed, while Fed a actually showed up injured in 2020.

Feel like there’s definitely someone out there who would say Novak would have beaten Fed had they met in 2009/10 lol

 

[mike danny]

Feel like there’s definitely someone out there who would say Novak would have beaten Fed had they met in 2009/10 lol

There are many simpletons on the internet.

 

[mike danny]

Maybe, maybe not. But I consider Stan's matches against Novak at the AO in 2013 and 2014 just as good to be honest.

Yes, they were great matches from Stan.

And I see you didn't reply to my point about Stan's "era".

 

[JaxTeller]

Better backhand in your dreams. Wawrinka has better backhand and, crucially, better mobility (he was way faster) and better baseline game. Wawrinka's serve is also excellent, not sure how Safin has a better serve.

Wawrinka beat a peaking Novak at the AO and RG.

Novak's peak at the AO > Federer's peak at the AO.

Novak is the AO King (9 AO titles) and dominates Federer 4-0 since the AO 2008.

In which universe is beating peak Federer at the AO more meritory than beating peak Novak at the AO?

Wawrinka has better backhand?? Are you sure mate??.. his BH is awful while returning, average in handling paced depth shots,average in taking on the rise.. Safin's BH is goat tier for sure..

 

[Third Serve]

Better backhand in your dreams. Wawrinka has better backhand and, crucially, better mobility (he was way faster) and better baseline game. Wawrinka's serve is also excellent, not sure how Safin has a better serve.

Wawrinka beat a peaking Novak at the AO and RG.

Novak's peak at the AO > Federer's peak at the AO.

Novak is the AO King (9 AO titles) and dominates Federer 4-0 since the AO 2008.

In which universe is beating peak Federer at the AO more meritory than beating peak Novak at the AO?

It is impossible for this statement to be any more wrong

 

[Kralingen]

Safin AO '05 SF vs. Wawrinka AO '14 QF
Safin USO '00 F vs. Wawrinka USO '16 F

who wins?

 

[NatF]

Safin AO '05 SF vs. Wawrinka AO '14 QF
Safin USO '00 F vs. Wawrinka USO '16 F

who wins?

Safin.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Yes, they were great matches from Stan.

And I see you didn't reply to my point about Stan's "era".

Any of those years was far, far stronger at the top than 2001. It's not close. Especially 2016 there were 2 very strong players that year.

 

[RS]

Safin AO '05 SF vs. Wawrinka AO '14 QF
Safin USO '00 F vs. Wawrinka USO '16 F

who wins?

Do a list of at least 5 and mix up the matches.

 

[skaj]

Better backhand in your dreams. Wawrinka has better backhand and, crucially, better mobility (he was way faster) and better baseline game. Wawrinka's serve is also excellent, not sure how Safin has a better serve.

Wawrinka beat a peaking Novak at the AO and RG.

Novak's peak at the AO > Federer's peak at the AO.

Novak is the AO King (9 AO titles) and dominates Federer 4-0 since the AO 2008.

In which universe is beating peak Federer at the AO more meritory than beating peak Novak at the AO?

Ha?

Also, Djokoloco would not dominate the mid 2000s Federer, which is Federer's Aussie Open peak. So, in this universe.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Stan by quite a distance.

 

[skaj]

serve: Safin
return: Safin
groundstrokes: =
net: Safin
movement: ≈
strategy: Safin
consistency: Wawrinka
clay: Wawrinka
hard: =
grass: Safin

 

[skaj]

Stan by quite a distance.

It's not who can cry longer but who is greater.

 

[initialize]

Wawrinka won 3 slams during the age of GOATs. Safin won 2 slams: 1 at the tailend of Pete's era and only 1 dismal slam during the weakest era of all time. 2003 - 2007.

Wawrinka. By far.

Everyone knows 2018 to present is significantly weaker

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Safin USO '00 F vs. Wawrinka USO '16 F

who wins?

The Safin who needed 5 sets to beat Grosjean in the 3R and hung on to win 7-5 in a 5th set tiebreak?

 

[mike danny]

Any of those years was far, far stronger at the top than 2001. It's not close. Especially 2016 there were 2 very strong players that year.

Give me a break, 2016 was weak AF and Stan couldn't even finish ranked above Milos Raonic. But sure, he'd be no.1 in Safin's era

 

[Kralingen]

Safin was basically Cilic with a couple more peak level runs is what I’m getting from this thread.

 

[NatF]

The Safin who needed 5 sets to beat Grosjean in the 3R and hung on to win 7-5 in a 5th set tiebreak?

Grosjean >>> Dan Evans lol.

 

[Sabrina]

The Safin who needed 5 sets to beat Grosjean in the 3R and hung on to win 7-5 in a 5th set tiebreak?

Stan also had to save a match point against Evans at USO 2016 too

 

[Kralingen]

The Safin who needed 5 sets to beat Grosjean in the 3R and hung on to win 7-5 in a 5th set tiebreak?

The Wawrinka who was MP down to Dan Evans?

 

[mike danny]

The Safin who needed 5 sets to beat Grosjean in the 3R and hung on to win 7-5 in a 5th set tiebreak?

The same Safin who crushed Sampras in the F.

2016 USO Stan needed to save MP to beat Dan Evans.

 

[JaxTeller]

It's not who can cry longer but who is greater.

Wawrinka is surely greater,.. debate should be on peak level,which Imo, Safin wins

 

[TheNachoMan]

It's not who can cry longer but who is greater.

It’s not who can be lazy and have more “potential“ but who is greater.

 

[skaj]

Safin was basically Cilic with a couple more peak level runs is what I’m getting from this thread.

And better return, (even)better backhand, better net game, better strategy, better touch...

 

[JoelSandwich]

Safin

 

[skaj]

Wawrinka is surely greater,.. debate should be on peak level,which Imo, Safin wins

Yes, surely a greater cryer, that's what I said.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

The same Safin who crushed Sampras in the F.

2016 USO Stan needed to save MP to beat Dan Evans.

See, Stan is resilient.

 

[Kralingen]

And better return, (even)better backhand, better net game, better strategy, better touch...

Not sure that people discussing in this thread have actually seen Safin play tbh.

 

[BlueB]

Wawrinka,
But, some facts point to Safin:

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Wawrinka,
But, some facts point to Safin:

Best argument in this thread tbh

 

[mike danny]

Wawrinka,
But, some facts point to Safin:

I've seen prettier ladies if I'm being honest.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Safin was basically Cilic with a couple more peak level runs is what I’m getting from this thread.

I mean in some respects you are on to something. Look at this thread. Everyone arguing Safin keeps coming back to the same well: the 2000 USO F against Pete and the 2005 AO SF against Federer. It's always those same two matches ad nauseum. Both great matches, but Stan has had the better overall career during a stronger era.

 

[mike danny]

I mean in some respects you are on to something. Look at this thread. Everyone arguing Safin keeps coming back to the same well: the 2000 USO F against Pete and the 2005 AO SF against Federer. It's always those same two matches ad nauseum. Both great matches, but Stan has had the better overall career during a stronger era.

*cough* 2016 *cough*.

 

[Thriller]

Everyone knows 2018 to present is significantly weaker

The 3rd Best Player in the World in 2006:

Sit down!

 

[JaxTeller]

I mean in some respects you are on to something. Look at this thread. Everyone arguing Safin keeps coming back to the same well: the 2000 USO F against Pete and the 2005 AO SF against Federer. It's always those same two matches ad nauseum. Both great matches, but Stan has had the better overall career during a stronger era.

Bro, these era debates are pointless.. and yeah I agree, Stan has a better career.

 

[initialize]

The 3rd Best Player in the World in 2006:

Sit down!

And guess who the 3rd best player in the world now is

 

[Kralingen]

The 3rd Best Player in the World in 2006:

Sit down!

dude, you've posted this like

100 times

 

[Thriller]

And guess who the 3rd best player in the world now is

A 24 year old who has already done better than Ljubicic managed in his entire career ... even if you doubled it.

 

[Thriller]

dude, you've posted this like

100 times

The truth doesn't get old.

 

[initialize]

A 24 year old who has already done better than Ljubicic managed in his entire career ... even if you doubled it.

And the sad thing is Ljubicic would still demolish Zverev

 

[mike danny]

Delete

 

[Thriller]

And the sad thing is Ljubicic would still demolish Zverev

At what? Sucking in Grand Slams?