Safin Wawrinka whos greater

Who is Greater

  • Wawrinka

    Votes: 61 63.5%

  • Safin

    Votes: 35 36.5%
  • Total voters
    96
nolefam_2024 said:
Right

Pete Sampras in 2000 was not lighting up the tour. He was out of his prime.
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Vincent-C said:
He was all of 29 and had just won Wimbledon, IIRC. Safin's dismantling of him in the USO Final was masterly.
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Sampras, by reaching the 2000 US Open final, returned to world number 1, after Agassi had been world number 1 for the previous year since winning the 1999 US Open in Sampras' absence through injury.

10 weeks after winning the 2000 US Open, Safin became world number 1, replacing Sampras at the top. At the 2000 YEC in Lisbon, Kuerten had to win the tournament if he wanted to become world number 1 and the year-end world number 1, otherwise Safin would keep the ranking. Kuerten did win the 2000 YEC, beating Sampras in the semi final and then Agassi in 3 straight sets in the final, after Agassi had narrowly beaten Kuerten 2-1 in sets in the round robin. Agassi beat Safin in the semi finals.

At the 2001 Australian Open was one of Greg Rusedski's biggest wins, beating world number 1 Kuerten in the second round, 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 9-7. Safin lost in the fourth round to Hrbaty, but it was enough to get Safin back to world number 1 at Kuerten's expense.

The top of the rankings changed a lot more often back then.
 
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Look at Djoker's schedule leading into his defeat by Stan at RG. The rain delays lead to him playing multiple days in a row with Stan have multiple days off. I would remove that match from the sample population.
 
BenBen said:
Look at Djoker's schedule leading into his defeat by Stan at RG. The rain delays lead to him playing multiple days in a row with Stan have multiple days off. I would remove that match from the sample population.
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If anything, Djokovic had the advantage due to the TaoPatch.
 
NeutralFan said:
Peak Nole at AO miles better than peak Fed and Injured Rafa far better than 2005 Nole lmao.
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Yes, peak Novak was better than peak Fed at the AO. That's why he has the most wins there. Doesn't mean he doesn't have match up problems.
 
BenBen said:
Look at Djoker's schedule leading into his defeat by Stan at RG. The rain delays lead to him playing multiple days in a row with Stan have multiple days off. I would remove that match from the sample population.
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Djokovic beat Nadal 7-5, 6-3, 6-1, and then took 5 sets to beat Murray (6-3, 6-3, 5-7, 5-7, 6-1), while Wawrinka beat Federer in 3 sets (6-4, 6-3, 7-6) and then beat Tsonga in 4 sets (6-3, 6-7, 7-6, 6-4).
 
talent wise Safin had more potential, which he never maximized.

However, Wawrinka is my choice as his highest level made Djoka and Nadal look like a noob, too bad he could not do it consistently.
 
slal1984 said:
talent wise Safin had more potential, which he never maximized.

However, Wawrinka is my choice as his highest level made Djoka and Nadal look like a noob, too bad he could not do it consistently.
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Head-to-head:

Federer vs. Wawrinka: 23-3 (7-1 in majors)
Nadal vs. Wawrinka: 19-3 (3-1 in majors)
Djokovic vs. Wawrinka: 21-6 (5-4 in majors)

Nadal actually won in straight sets in every single one of his 19 wins over Wawrinka. Only 13 of Djokovic's 21 wins over Wawrinka were in straight sets, along with 4 losses in majors to Wawrinka.
 
Mustard said:
Head-to-head:

Federer vs. Wawrinka: 23-3 (7-1 in majors)
Nadal vs. Wawrinka: 19-3 (3-1 in majors)
Djokovic vs. Wawrinka: 21-6 (5-4 in majors)

Nadal actually won in straight sets in every single one of his 19 wins over Wawrinka. Only 13 of Djokovic's 21 wins over Wawrinka were in straight sets, along with 4 losses in majors to Wawrinka.
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It's crazy! Because of the AO win, people really seem to think Wawrinka troubled Rafa. Yes, he troubled Novak sometimes, but he wasn't really a threat to Nadal.
 
Aabye5 said:
It's crazy! Because of the AO win, people really seem to think Wawrinka troubled Rafa. Yes, he troubled Novak sometimes, but he wasn't really a threat to Nadal.
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Yes, it's strange. Going into the 2014 Australian Open final, Nadal was 12-0 against Wawrinka without losing a set. Also, after the 2014 Australian Open final, Wawrinka's other 2 wins over Nadal were both in 2015 (in Rome and Paris Indoor). People who remember 2015 Nadal know that he was chaotic and unreliable against the field in general, and strangely played his best tennis of the year post-US Open, which included straight set Nadal wins over Wawrinka in Shanghai (6-2, 6-1) and the YEC in London (6-3, 6-2), and even Wawrinka's win over Nadal at 2015 Paris Indoor was 7-6, 7-6. Wawrinka's win over Nadal at 2015 Rome was more convincing, at 7-6, 6-2.

Outside of 2014-2015, Nadal won every match played against Wawrinka without losing a set.
 
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Mustard said:
Head-to-head:

Federer vs. Wawrinka: 23-3 (7-1 in majors)
Nadal vs. Wawrinka: 19-3 (3-1 in majors)
Djokovic vs. Wawrinka: 21-6 (5-4 in majors)

Nadal actually won in straight sets in every single one of his 19 wins over Wawrinka. Only 13 of Djokovic's 21 wins over Wawrinka were in straight sets, along with 4 losses in majors to Wawrinka.
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We can all find stats that fit our narrative. How many wins does Federer have over Djoka in Grand Slam finals?

Wawrinka has 2.. let's not forget all the epic 5 setters they have played. Too bad wawrinka could not play at that level consistently..
 
slal1984 said:
We can all find stats that fit our narrative. How many wins does Federer have over Djoka in Grand Slam finals?
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One. 2007 US Open final.

slal1984 said:
Wawrinka has 2.. let's not forget all the epic 5 setters they have played. Too bad wawrinka could not play at that level consistently..
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But Federer has beaten Djokovic in 6 matches in majors overall, 4 of them in semi finals.

I don't get what your point is. Wawrinka has been a much bigger problem for Djokovic than he has for Nadal, by some distance. I can remember Wawrinka and Djokovic 2013 matches in majors, which Djokovic won but which were very close. Wawrinka proceeds to beat Djokovic 4 times in majors in future years, and came pretty close some other times (like going to a fifth set at the 2015 Australian Open).

Nadal beat Wawrinka in 19 of their 22 matches, and didn't lose a set in those 19 wins.
 
Mustard said:
One. 2007 US Open final.


But Federer has beaten Djokovic in 6 matches in majors overall, 4 of them in semi finals.

I don't get what your point is. Wawrinka has been a much bigger problem for Djokovic than he has for Nadal, by some distance. I can remember Wawrinka and Djokovic 2013 matches in majors, which Djokovic won but which were very close. Wawrinka proceeds to beat Djokovic 4 times in majors in future years, and came pretty close some other times (like going to a fifth set at the 2015 Australian Open).

Nadal beat Wawrinka in 19 of their 22 matches, and didn't lose a set in those 19 wins.
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My point is that stats are not always the best indicator when it comes to deciding who is capable of a higher level of tennis.

Wawrinka beat Djoka 2 times in major finals, Fed only 1nce, this does not make Wawrinka a better player. But when Wawrinka plays his highest level he is better than Safins highest level.
 
slal1984 said:
My point is that stats are not always the best indicator when it comes to deciding who is capable of a higher level of tennis.

Wawrinka beat Djoka 2 times in major finals, Fed only 1nce, this does not make Wawrinka a better player. But when Wawrinka plays his highest level he is better than Safins highest level.
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On what do you base the bolded? Safin beat Sampras and Federer on the way to his 2 major titles, and has also beaten guys like Kuerten, Hewitt, Agassi, Roddick, Djokovic etc. in major tournaments, and in thrilling fashion.
 
One thing is for sure, Wawrinka always had his head together. Safin could have been so much better, dominate, if he just had the mental game nailed down a bit more. I don't think many years that tennis was his top priority; and I don't think he really enjoyed playing the game the same way that Wawrinka obviously does.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
It's Stan, I'm sorry. Anyone saying Safin is completely discounting the eras in which they played.

Stan has an extra Major, and more than that he won 3 of the 4 legs of the CGS and won Majors on two different surfaces, which is Massive. In fact while both made 4 Major finals, Stan split his equally on hard and clay, whereas Safin's were all on hardcourt, and 3 at the AO at that.

Safin lost an AO final to Thomas Johansson of all people.

Yes, Safin has 9 weeks at No. 1, but it was during a very weak era where he was trading the spot with Guga Kuerten. I love Guga, but he is not remotely comparable as a player to the Big 4 era. Safin wouldn't have sniffed No. 1 during Stan's time either.

Safin has more Masters, but his titles are pretty weak:
  • 3 of the 5 are in Paris, which, lol
  • 2 of Safin's 5 Masters wins were over Harel Levy (Canada) and Radek Stepanek (Paris) in the finals.
  • Safin's one very good with was in 2004 in Madrid (indoors), but draw-wise that is pretty comparable to Stan's 2014 MC win
Stan qualified for the YEC one more time than Safin, and has more career YEC SFs (3) than Safin (2).

Stan has more Major SFs (9) than Safin (7), and Stan did that in an era where there were 4 legit ATG-level players.

Stan has 2x as many Major QFs (18) than Safin (9).

Stan has never played a Masters or Major final where he didn't play against a GOAT candidate. Think about that.

Stan has 5 years ranked in the top 10; Safin only 3.
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2002 Paris was an excellent Masters win, he straight-setted #1 Hewitt, Moya and Nalby. In ‘04 Paris he beat Hewitt and Ljub. All excellent indoor players (Nalby being one of the overlooked indoor greats of the 2000’s).


‘00 Paris wasn’t shabby either…Corretja (a YEC champion), Scud and Ferrero…not a murderers row, but not that bad.

‘00 Canada was a gimme final, but he beat #2-ranked Sampras in the quarters.

All in all Safin’s superiority at the Masters holds, Wawrinka underperformed there and era differences can’t explain that all away (remember Marat didn’t just win 5, he made 3 finals losing to Agassi, Kuerten on his best surface and Federer).
 
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