Sam Groth: "I make no money on tour"

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hmm, how about you do a google search on concentration of wealth in the US since the 1950's..u remember the 50's? the most prosperous era in US history?

taxes for those making a million or more was 90%, :shock:

so...as years passed and taxes got lower, banking was deregulated, manufacturing went overseas and all of a sudden the US is in the crapper.

coincidence?

and again If you are worth billions and you pay 20mil in taxes? thats a write off


what would you rather...be worth 200mil and pay 20 mil in taxes a year or earn 45k and pay 8k in taxes per year?

I've actually studied some of this stuff in college and after. It's a complex set of issues. I'm not going to come down "black and white" on any of this (100% on the side of "the rich" or "the poor").

Let's just say I don't agree with how you presented things, but I don't think I'm going to pursue this one.
 
I've actually studied some of this stuff in college and after. It's a complex set of issues. I'm not going to come down "black and white" on any of this (100% on the side of "the rich" or "the poor").

Let's just say I don't agree with how you presented things, but I don't think I'm going to pursue this one.

its okay if you dont know.
 
This is the nonsense they tell you, but its simply an accountancy fiddle to suggest this.

Taxpayers made nothing out of the bailout.

You wage a war against moral hazard when it comes to people, but when it comes to corporations you advocate a nanny state.

That is the modern day republican party :twisted:

Whats amazing is that they get so many poor and barely middle class white Americans to vote for them :shock:
 
That is the modern day republican party :twisted:

Whats amazing is that they get so many poor and barely middle class white Americans to vote for them :shock:

yeah well..its no secret how they manage that..but I wont go into it because I dont want another comment deleted...
 
Nationalism and imperial pride go a long way to explaining this paradox.

From Rule Britannia to Pax Americana it feels good to be in a powerful country.




That is the modern day republican party :twisted:

Whats amazing is that they get so many poor and barely middle class white Americans to vote for them :shock:
 
Really disgraceful that middling players don't make a good living. The promoters are ripping off the players and have been for years. This is a black mark on the sport.

The so-called player's council hasn't been able to agree on anything since it was formed. The top players won't agree on a strike to get these guys more money because they're too busy raking it in themselves.

Federer makes more money every day in endorsements than middling players make in a year from tournament play.
 
Do you know most stores in Germany are forced to close at around 5pm or 6pm, just when most people are off work and can go shopping? I wouldn't agree to that if I were Wal-Mart, either.

If you don't like capitalism so much, maybe you should move to another country? Because capitalism is dog-eat-dog. That competition is what makes it work.

ROFLMAO....

First of all, I didnt say Walmart left Germany, I said they were run out.

big difference no?

Secondly, thats not why they were run out..they were run out because they tried to get away with their price gouging, no wage paying no benefits paying bs and the german workers wouldnt stand for it.not to mention products of dubious quality.

I repeat Walmart was run out of germany, not the other way round.

by the by, any aussies here? I hear tell walmart was run out of australia too for much the same reason..because german and aussie govts dont allow corporations to treat employees like crap and not pay them and then pass the cost onto the taxpayer.
 
No one has any interest in the long term future of the sport and the Player's Council has only advisory powers so naturally it blows hot and cold and can be bought off with very little.
 
Really disgraceful that middling players don't make a good living. The promoters are ripping off the players and have been for years. This is a black mark on the sport.

The so-called player's council hasn't been able to agree on anything since it was formed. The top players won't agree on a strike to get these guys more money because they're too busy raking it in themselves.

Federer makes more money every day in endorsements than middling players make in a year from tournament play.

agreed and agreed.
 
If you don't like capitalism so much, maybe you should move to another country? Because capitalism is dog-eat-dog. That competition is what makes it work.

Laissez-faire capitalism has never worked anywhere!

Dog-eat-dog is just too destabilizing a force to maintain any sense of structure or long lasting success. Regulation, law, and order are all necessary mitigating factors...
 
Laissez-faire capitalism has never worked anywhere!

Dog-eat-dog is just too destabilizing a force to maintain any sense of structure or long lasting success. Regulation, law, and order are all necessary mitigating factors...

pssht..dont ruin his fantasy of becoming a venture capitalist/robber baron/entrepreneur /sweatshop owner before it begins!!
 
and out of curiousity..how many years did you spend on the pro tour?

sounds like sour grapes a bit, for someone with ace in their handle.
Wow! Went to the 12 yr old "so what did you achieve in tennis" rant? I guess I gave you too much credit. @Nadal_Slam_King would be proud...

I just don't have sympathy for someone who had a shot at making it. If the guys at his level used to make more and you could say he got 'duped' into training and now isn't making the expected income, I'd have some sympathy. But the life of the Journeyman on the ATP Tour is well known: sleeping on the floor, dodgy hotels, months on the road away from the family.
 
Laissez-faire capitalism has never worked anywhere!

Dog-eat-dog is just too destabilizing a force to maintain any sense of structure or long lasting success. Regulation, law, and order are all necessary mitigating factors...

Not true! ask the roman empire...

or umm..ask the peasant/landed gentry paradigm of medieval europe...oh..um

and pre industrial france?

hmmm...damn.
 
Wow! Went to the 12 yr old "so what did you achieve in tennis" rant? I guess I gave you too much credit. @Nadal_Slam_King would be proud...

I just don't have sympathy for someone who had a shot at making it. If the guys at his level used to make more and you could say he got 'duped' into training and now isn't making the expected income, I'd have some sympathy. But the life of the Journeyman on the ATP Tour is well known: sleeping on the floor, dodgy hotels, months on the road away from the family.

I wonder why......
 
Pretty disgraceful that people who are supposed to be tennis fans don't support athletes getting enough money to live on.

Oh, and Federer, along with the other top players, fully supports more pay for the lower ranked players.
 
Pretty disgraceful that people who are supposed to be tennis fans don't support athletes getting enough money to live on.

Oh, and Federer, along with the other top players, fully supports more pay for the lower ranked players.

Ironic isnt, the people so eager to guard fed's wealth are at odds with his actual opinion on the matter.
 
The reality is tennis organizations should target a minimum gross earnings target for, say, the top 200 players paid out of increased prize money and they should do this for the future of the tennis industry itself.

This way there will always be a cohort of highly talented players who can pay their way while they either make it or go and do something else.
 
What I don't understand is why sub-200 players are flying from Australia to New York for tournaments. That's just a baffling choice from a financial perspective. I follow a few Futures players on Facebook who do similar things for ITF events, and I don't understand how they can afford to eat.

Players who insist on flying vast distances for big-time tournaments are to be commended for chasing their dreams, but it really is tough to feel any pity for them if their dreams are creating unsustainable self-imposed financial burdens.

There are plenty of players in the northeastern US who could fill out the US Open field just fine without all the internationals spending tons of money to make the event what it is.
 
Ignorant fools on TW hear: "wah wah, I'm not a filthy rich millionaire"

Economists hear: "there is little to no financial incentive for an athlete to pursue tennis"

Poorly paid pros outside the top ~50 is BAD FOR THE SPORT. More money=more competition. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Learn from the Indian players. They hit a few balls in singles and then quickly jump into doubles (Sania Mirza, Leander, Somdev, Boppana etc.). The competition is less and the returns are high.
Sam Groth make this move fast
 
I feel sorry for the lower ranked guys and girls. It's tough.
As for Groth he's a good guy with a sense of humour - saw him play a Challenger earlier this year.
He's got a serve to die for ... when it goes in.
I wish him all the best.
 
Learn from the Indian players. They hit a few balls in singles and then quickly jump into doubles (Sania Mirza, Leander, Somdev, Boppana etc.). The competition is less and the returns are high.
Sam Groth make this move fast

That's not a bad idea at all though his inconsistency would give his partner or partners fits at times.
Having said that, if his serve was on, it'd be easy money picking off returns at the net.
 
Learn from the Indian players. They hit a few balls in singles and then quickly jump into doubles (Sania Mirza, Leander, Somdev, Boppana etc.). The competition is less and the returns are high.
Sam Groth make this move fast

In India, tennis is only for the rich and affluent. Nobody plays it. That's the only reason they aren't dominant in tennis. On the other hand, they have consistently been one of the top cricket countries in the world. And imagine that... everybody in the country plays it.

If tennis courts were available in India the way they are available in the USA, we'd see a massive number of Indian players in the pros.
 
Didn't they just double the income for the first round players?

I suppose they might need to start doing that in the challengers too.
 
Learn from the Indian players. They hit a few balls in singles and then quickly jump into doubles (Sania Mirza, Leander, Somdev, Boppana etc.). The competition is less and the returns are high.
Sam Groth make this move fast

Some of them (Indians) are also supported by employers (sports quotas). Also, since there are few of them, some of them like Sania make a lot on endorsements. I don't think a #40 (or #30) ranked player in the US would be chased by sponsors.

Hypothetically, if India had players in the singles top 10, then Sania ranked 40, or playing doubles would find it hard to get endorsements or support.
 
Didn't they just double the income for the first round players?

I suppose they might need to start doing that in the challengers too.

I don't know what kind of crowds challengers attract in Eu or USA, but in India its only the players (and their parents at most) sitting in the stands. For the final they have to get school kids from nearby bribing them with small hampers of food.
 
I see some people are failing to see the big picture. This is not about one player whining because he doesn't make enough money. This is about making tennis a bigger sport, more competitive, and ultimately, generating more money within the sport. For those saying Sam should have picked another career, maybe he should have. Maybe Sam should have realized that being the 250th best player in the world would not allow him to support himself. That makes me wonder how many talented/athletic kids and their parents realized this and did not give competitive tennis a shot? Why pursue a sport that does not even give you enough income to support yourself while you attempt to rise in the rankings? They realize this and pick up some other sport where the 250th best player makes 6 figures. If we want tennis to grow as a sport, we need more people to play. When there are more people playing, the competition naturally increases. Increased competition yields higher quality play, which in turn brings more money into the sport.

A good start would be redistributing the wealth in some way the lower ranked players make enough to support themselves on tour. How it should be optimally distributed is a complicated matter. I'm not sure splitting some of a slam winner's prize money would be beneficial for the advertizement of tennis. There needs to be an awe factor when casual tennis viewers see the prize money for winning a slam. I don't think anything less than $1 million would create that awe factor. This prize figure also gives aspiring players something more to strive for than just being number 1.

I don't know enough about the revenue distribution of the ATP to comment on where the money should come from to support the lower ranked players. But I do know that its kind of ridiculous that the ranking one must achieve to break even on tour is inside the top 100. The sport is lucky is has players crazy enough to earn negative money in hopes of making it big. As of now, this is what generates the depth of talent in the game. I don;t feel like typing anymore..so I'll leave it at that.
 
ROFLMAO!~

so now we are comparing near slave labor to actual slave labor, that is your argument?

ROFLMAO!

And Ive never paid 300 bucks for sneakers.

Ive never paid 300 bucks for shoes period, try again.


Yes people are willing to pay because hey, money is being made..damn the human cost right.

wow your actual argument was sure china is crappy, but at least the workers arent actual slaves.

rofl.
Exactly! That's why shoe companies make their shoes in China - because they know consumers like you would be unwilling to pay $300 for them. By making them in China, they can charge only $120 for the same shoes and plenty of consumers buy Nike shoes.

Oh, and please stop calling the factory workers in China "slave laborers". They are nothing close to being real slaves. They are also working in those factories by choice and of their own free will. It beats working on their family farms back in the countryside by a mile. Now THAT's slaving away! And there are tons of people in China that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. If it were so bad, why are so many people clamoring to work there?

Please stop applying American standards to the rest of the world. That's one reason the rest of the world hates us.
 
and who pushed the loans on the dumb greedy people?

could it be the banks and fanny and freddy?

you can afford this loan..the market is sure to go up..its an investment for your family...

also, who told hte bankers to bundle the worthless debt into a commodity?
OMG!! Did the banks put a gun to these people's heads and said if you don't take out this loan I will blow your head off?

Are you the type that sues McDonald's for forcing you to eat their french fries and chicken mcnuggets that made you fat? Or do you believe the store clerk that tells you that buying this lottery ticket will guarantee that you will become a millionaire?

Do people have no sense of personal responsibility anymore? Can't you take responsibility for your own decisions in your life instead of always blaming someone else when things don't turn out as you expected because you made a bad decision? Man up!!
 
You said China had slave labor. Ask a real slave toiling away on a plantation if he'd be willing to trade places with a factory worker in China.

.

Actually, they do use prisoners as unpaid slave labor. They also use prisoners as organ donors to the wealthy or party members. Also, being an "enemy" of the regime can make you a prisoner, as can your religious choices. They still do sometimes kill babies and kill or imprison parents if they go over the number of children they are allowed to have (1 without special permission).

Not really the gleaming shining place that Andy Stern and other leftists make it out to be.
------
Pressure mounts to stop China's forced abortions
By Calum MacLeod, USA TODAY

BEIJING – As supervisor of family planning enforcement in Fujian province's Daji township, Wang Jinding says he knows the best way to kill the unborn babies of parents who want to keep them.
"The key point is to separate the pregnant woman from her family members," he said in an interview with USA TODAY.

That is exactly what Wang did in a case in April, enforcing the Communist Party's rules on family size. He had eight government workers kidnap a pregnant Pan Chunyan, 31, from her grocery store in Fujian city on the southern coast.

Her husband, Wu Liangjie, was frantically raising the $8,640 fee required for a third child. Wu and a dozen relatives fought to try to see Pan at the government building where she was held.

Rather than granting the family more time, Wang organized a police-led convoy of seven vehicles to take Pan to a hospital. There, Pan — who was eight months pregnant — was injected with chemicals to kill the child. She delivered a fully formed, but dead, son.

"My wife only got a glance at the child, her heart broke, and she cried loudly, because the whole body was black and the skin on the face had peeled," Wu says. "This is a life that had no time to look at this beautiful world with eyes open."
 
Well Groth is pretty bad.

Earlier this year he broke the record for fastest serve ever hit. It was an ace and measured at 163 mph. When I read the article I was more amazed at how he managed to lose 6-3 6-4 to his opponent. lol.
 
This is the nonsense they tell you, but its simply an accountancy fiddle to suggest this.

Taxpayers made nothing out of the bailout.
Wrong. Here's an independent analysis by CNN/Fortune:

"The bailout, by the numbers, clearly did work. Not only did it forestall a worldwide financial meltdown, but a Fortune analysis shows that U.S. taxpayers are coming out ahead on it -- by at least $40 billion, and possibly by as much as $100 billion eventually."


http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/08/surprise-the-big-bad-bailout-is-paying-off/
 
If you wish to give more money to the futures players, there is nothing wrong with that. It isn't Federer's or Nadal's money until the tournament pays them. It is the tournament's money and the distribution of the money is contracted by the tournaments, the ATP (the union that supplies the players), and sometimes the national associations (maybe even the ITF).
Like a sports league there are competing priorities. Teams, players, and the league itself, all have incentives to get as much pie as they can, yet they must work together to grow the pie.
It is just capitalism at work. If the parties feel the game will grow more by spreading the money around, then it is a good thing for all. If more money to the stars would grow the game, then they should do that.
 
Somone running for high office who won't reveal his tax returns because he pays little is emblematic.
Why does how much someone paid in taxes have anything at all to do with how well that person can perform a job? When you apply for a job, do you list on your resume under your qualifications how much in taxes you paid over the past 10 years?
 
In India, tennis is only for the rich and affluent. Nobody plays it. That's the only reason they aren't dominant in tennis. On the other hand, they have consistently been one of the top cricket countries in the world. And imagine that... everybody in the country plays it.

If tennis courts were available in India the way they are available in the USA, we'd see a massive number of Indian players in the pros.
True. Only very few in India tries playing tennis at competitive level. And those very few tries really hard in singles...but when they find they can't really match physically and in skills they quickly shift to doubles and mixed doubles where you can win slams also and win much lesser effort.

Leander Paes and Mahesh Bhupathi showed the way and now rest are following it.

In cricket, yes almost all Indians are playing it..its a huge huge market here and you don't have to physically stronger or more fit to score runs in subcontinent :)
 
This is almost certainly false.

Fiirstly, the cost of production is going up in China.

Secondly, and more importantly, the lower cost of production in China has not allowed for cheaper prices. It has allowed for super profits.

Whenever a product has been offshored, the price to the consumer does not go down.

The profit for the company goes up.



Exactly! That's why shoe companies make their shoes in China - because they know consumers like you would be unwilling to pay $300 for them. By making them in China, they can charge only $120 for the same shoes and plenty of consumers buy Nike shoes.

Oh, and please stop calling the factory workers in China "slave laborers". They are nothing close to being real slaves. They are also working in those factories by choice and of their own free will. It beats working on their family farms back in the countryside by a mile. Now THAT's slaving away! And there are tons of people in China that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. If it were so bad, why are so many people clamoring to work there?

Please stop applying American standards to the rest of the world. That's one reason the rest of the world hates us.
 
The banks sold them loans so they could package them up as guilt-edged investments for those with cash to invest and in effect sold the funds rubbish at high prices.

The GFC was colossal bank fraud perpetrated against both consumers and investors.




OMG!! Did the banks put a gun to these people's heads and said if you don't take out this loan I will blow your head off?

Are you the type that sues McDonald's for forcing you to eat their french fries and chicken mcnuggets that made you fat? Or do you believe the store clerk that tells you that buying this lottery ticket will guarantee that you will become a millionaire?

Do people have no sense of personal responsibility anymore? Can't you take responsibility for your own decisions in your life instead of always blaming someone else when things don't turn out as you expected because you made a bad decision? Man up!!
 
He's not applying for a job, get it, so your analogy is fundamentally flawed.




Why does how much someone paid in taxes have anything at all to do with how well that person can perform a job? When you apply for a job, do you list on your resume under your qualifications how much in taxes you paid over the past 10 years?
 
This is almost certainly false.

Fiirstly, the cost of production is going up in China.

Secondly, and more importantly, the lower cost of production in China has not allowed for cheaper prices. It has allowed for super profits.

Whenever a product has been offshored, the price to the consumer does not go down.

The profit for the company goes up.
Oh, really? Is that why everything sold in Wal-Mart is so cheap and made in China?

Don't you think companies will want to maintain their profit margins regardless of where they produce their products? If their cost of production is much higher, like if they produced in the U.S., they will raise their prices in order to maintain their profit margins. Their shareholders (that's you and me) will demand it. Just about everyone with a 401K has a stake in companies profits. So it perturbs me how some people will slam corporations for making profits when they themselves are beneficiaries of it.

BTW, just about all consumer products are cheaper today than they were 35 years ago (adjusted for inflation).
 
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