Same Toss For All Serves

[Syfo-Dias]

Recently I've been working on using the same ball toss for first and second serves. I've found that tossing at about 1 o'clock somewhat into the court seems ideal for doing this. When practicing last night I was able to hit flat, slice, and topspin serves using this toss really well. I've also been trying to use a continental grip for flat and spin serves as well. Are there any drawbacks to doing this? It seems like it would be advantageous in order to keep opponents from reading your serve. Some people totally telegraph what serve they're going to hit based just on the toss location. Opinions?

 

[gzhpcu]

This is what Sampras did: practically same toss, irrespective of serve type. Not so easy for everyone else, however, because you have to lean according to the type of serve. If you can manage that, fine. But be aware, that if you do not postion your body correctly, the different serve types lose their effectiveness....

 

[Syfo-Dias]

I thought I read somewhere that Sampras did that. Seems like a smart tactic. I suppose for some extreme kick and twist serves it might be more difficult to pull off though.

 

[gzhpcu]

Here is an article on the toss:

http://www.tennisserver.com/turbo/turbo_02_09.html

The amazing aspect of Pete Sampras’ serve is that he can hit all of his serves with virtually the same toss! Now, I have to adjust the toss to hit different types of serves. I know that I am telegraphing my intentions to the opponent, but I am willing to sacrifice deception for consistency…Pete Sampras, I am not!

 

[split-step]

Recently I've been working on using the same ball toss for first and second serves. I've found that tossing at about 1 o'clock somewhat into the court seems ideal for doing this. When practicing last night I was able to hit flat, slice, and topspin serves using this toss really well. I've also been trying to use a continental grip for flat and spin serves as well. Are there any drawbacks to doing this? It seems like it would be advantageous in order to keep opponents from reading your serve. Some people totally telegraph what serve they're going to hit based just on the toss location. Opinions?

How good was your kick serve, tossing at 1 o'clock and into the court?

I have same ball toss for flat and slice, but for kick, for me to get good action on the ball I have to bring the toss not so much into the court.

 

[mikeler]

I remember somebody on these boards saying they keep the ball at the same spot in relation to the baseline for each type of serve. So the receiver never sees a change in the horizontal direction of the toss. They vary the depth of the toss into the court to change their serve type. I've never tried that but it seems like an interesting concept.

 

[Syfo-Dias]

How good was your kick serve, tossing at 1 o'clock and into the court?

I have same ball toss for flat and slice, but for kick, for me to get good action on the ball I have to bring the toss not so much into the court.

I have a topspin serve, but I don't think it jumps up enough to be classified as a kick serve. I find that tossing into the court just a bit, maybe about 1 to 1.5 feet is good for flat, slice and topspin serves. As somebody else mentioned, I guess the depth of the toss isn't as important as the lateral position in the air as the returner can't read the depth as easily. I know from experience though that kick serves can be easy to read with some people. I used to play this one guy who would toss the ball directly above and almost behind him when serving the kicker. Once I figured out how to read it, it wasn't that hard to return even though it kicked up really high.

 

[tennisdad65]

Recently I've been working on using the same ball toss for first and second serves. I've found that tossing at about 1 o'clock somewhat into the court seems ideal for doing this.

I think tossing at 12 o'clock is even better. That's where sampras tossed.
he could hit it flat, topspin or twist, and still get good speed on the topspin and twist at 12. You do see some popular youtube videos of him tossing at 11 but that is very rare for him.

Tossing at 1 o'clock, you may get more power, but you do not get enough topspin on the serve. Also, tossing at 1 o'clock completely takes the twist out of the equation.. you are only left with flat and topspin-slice as your options.

 

[NLBwell]

Yes, it is preferable to keep the toss in one place if you serve as well as you would otherwise because it doesn't let the opponent know what serve you are hitting. I toss the ball anywhere from 1 o'clock (slice) to 11 (topspin), but I can also switch it up and hit slice off the 11 and kick off the 1 o'clock (and flat on any toss) to keep the receiver honest.

 

[mikeler]

Yes, it is preferable to keep the toss in one place if you serve as well as you would otherwise because it doesn't let the opponent know what serve you are hitting. I toss the ball anywhere from 1 o'clock (slice) to 11 (topspin), but I can also switch it up and hit slice off the 11 and kick off the 1 o'clock (and flat on any toss) to keep the receiver honest.

I do this too. Probably 75% of the time, I'll give them the serve they are expecting based on the toss. The other 25% I'll mix in a different spin and/or direction.

 

[fuzz nation]

Disguise! Not as high of a priority for serving as consistency and placement, but once you get a handle on that, you can make even more of a weapon out of your delivery when it's unreadable. I got completely wrong-footed trying to return a guy's serve last weekend when his setup and toss were exactly what he's been using to go out to my backhand, but the ball zipped through my forehand side. Never saw it coming!

What's starting to happen with your variety is that you're probably altering your move to the ball right as you swing at your serve so that you're in a slightly different position relative to the ball at contact. Instead of tossing the ball to a different spot, you're moving yourself to a different spot, but later in your motion so that the receiver can't get any notice of what's in store. That altered move can work for some serves, but even just taking a different swingpath at the same toss from the same setup could be disguising your serves, too. Have fun with it.

I can produce a flat serve or a decent slice by only altering my swingpath, but I need to toss more out to the side to get more extreme spin on that slice. Even if I telegraph that one though, it's a funky ball to deal with. Good observation above concerning the depth of the toss into the court (mikeler). If it's harder for the receiver to see you slide forward more under your toss, it's pretty tough to know that perhaps a kicker is on the way until after you go up to the ball.