Sampras & Agassi: H2H with attacking players reveals Sampras probably has the most complete game in history

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Start da Game

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found this nice piece of information from a youtube comment.......a member drew a comparison between sampras and agassi against the rest and the obvious sampras-agassi head 2 head........seriously you don't own the field like this which has all gamestyles unless you yourself had the greatest all round game to begin........sampras and agassi head and shoulders above the field, agassi being a clear second.......

"John McEnroe said in 1993 that what surprised him in this match was how well Sampras was hitting returns and passing shots, he said he "wasn't expecting Sampras to be so strong from the baseline". Serve Volleyers were not known for those kind of counterpunching abilities. That's what marked Sampras out from other serve volleyers and why he won much more than the other fellow serve volleyers.

By the way, a piece of interesting trivia. Andre Agassi has a comprehensive winning record against all serve volleyers:
Agassi v Becker: 10-4
Agassi v Edberg: 6-3
Agassi v Stich: 6-0
Agassi v Rusedski: 9-2
Agassi v Rafter: 10-5
Agassi v Krajicek: 4-3
Agassi v Ivanisevic: 4-3
Agassi v Todd Martin: 13-5
Agassi v Escude: 5-1
Agassi v Henman: 2-2 (they never played a grand slam match)
Agassi v Cash : 1-0
Agassi v Philippoussis: 6-2
Agassi v Wheaton: 6-3
Agassi v Bjorkman: 5-0
But Agassi v Sampras? 20-14 in Sampras' favour.


Sampras v Becker: 12-7
Sampras v Edberg: 8-6
Sampras v Stich: 4-5
Sampras v Rusedski: 9-1
Sampras v Rafter: 12-4
Sampras v Krajicek: 4-6
Sampras v Ivanisevic: 12-6
Sampras v Bjorkman: 9-1
Sampras v Todd Martin: 18-4
Sampras v Escude: 1-1
Sampras v Henman: 6-1
Sampras v Philippoussis : 7-4
Sampras v Wheaton : 8-0
 
Start da Game said:
found this nice piece of information from a youtube comment.......a member drew a comparison between sampras and agassi against the rest and the obvious sampras-agassi head 2 head........seriously you don't own the field like this which has all gamestyles unless you yourself had the greatest all round game to begin........sampras and agassi head and shoulders above the field, agassi being a clear second.......

"John McEnroe said in 1993 that what surprised him in this match was how well Sampras was hitting returns and passing shots, he said he "wasn't expecting Sampras to be so strong from the baseline". Serve Volleyers were not known for those kind of counterpunching abilities. That's what marked Sampras out from other serve volleyers and why he won much more than the other fellow serve volleyers.

By the way, a piece of interesting trivia. Andre Agassi has a comprehensive winning record against all serve volleyers:
Agassi v Becker: 10-4
Agassi v Edberg: 6-3
Agassi v Stich: 6-0
Agassi v Rusedski: 9-2
Agassi v Rafter: 10-5
Agassi v Krajicek: 4-3
Agassi v Ivanisevic: 4-3
Agassi v Todd Martin: 13-5
Agassi v Escude: 5-1
Agassi v Henman: 2-2 (they never played a grand slam match)
Agassi v Cash : 1-0
Agassi v Philippoussis: 6-2
Agassi v Wheaton: 6-3
Agassi v Bjorkman: 5-0
But Agassi v Sampras? 20-14 in Sampras' favour.


Sampras v Becker: 12-7
Sampras v Edberg: 8-6
Sampras v Stich: 4-5
Sampras v Rusedski: 9-1
Sampras v Rafter: 12-4
Sampras v Krajicek: 4-6
Sampras v Ivanisevic: 12-6
Sampras v Bjorkman: 9-1
Sampras v Todd Martin: 18-4
Sampras v Escude: 1-1
Sampras v Henman: 6-1
Sampras v Philippoussis : 7-4
Sampras v Wheaton : 8-0
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So true! But of course since it goes against this clown forum's narrative of "WODGI IS THE BESTI" expect this thread to be either ignored, to be mocked for quoting a youtuber, to downplay head to head as simply "Pete was better than them, not more complete" etc.

Tennis warehouse? Joker Clownhouse more like it
 
Pete Prime said:
Compared to such greats as Zverev, Berretini, and Goffin?
Guess what all these guys have in common? They ended the year in the top 10.
Sad
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Berrettini is a certified servebot with no backhand, woudl fit right in in the 90s. Zverev would love the 90s clay field I'm sure.
 
Nordung said:
Sampras has become criminally underrated in the age of the big 3, the guy is a fourth or fifth best tennis player ever and people tease him like he's a nobody. 14 grand slams and almost total dominance in 90s is no joke.
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I don't think any serious tennis fan could underrate him at all. He'll always be one of the best ever. And I'm sure he would have won even more Slams if he had another GOAT candidate rival competing with him.

The big 3 have benefitted a lot from having each other to compete against. It has kept them motivated to keep coming back strong each season.
 
Red Rick said:
Berrettini is a certified servebot with no backhand, woudl fit right in in the 90s. Zverev would love the 90s clay field I'm sure.
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And yet these guys, the cream o' the crop today, are so much better than the 90s baseliners, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Martin, Guga etc.? LMAO
 
Backspin1183 said:
I don't think any serious tennis fan could underrate him at all. He'll always be one of the best ever. And I'm sure he would have won even more Slams if he had another GOAT candidate rival competing with him.

The big 3 have benefitted a lot from having each other to compete against. It has kept them motivated to keep coming back strong each season.
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He had Agassi, if their score was 4-1 in Agassi favour in slam finals then they would both end up with 11 slams and be in Goat contention until Big 3 eclipe their achievements.
And he was done in by injuries and had no more gas left in the tank.
 
Milanez82 said:
He had Agassi, if their score was 4-1 in Agassi favour in slam finals then they would both end up with 11 slams and be in Goat contention until Big 3 eclipe their achievements.
And he was done in by injuries and had no more gas left in the tank.
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Yep, he wanted to start a family and only went as far as the 2002 Open because he wanted to end it with a win.
BUT if he wanted to keep playing, he could have had a shot at Wimbledon in '03 and faster slams in general for a couple more years.
 
Pete Prime said:
Yep, he wanted to start a family and only went as far as the 2002 Open because he wanted to end it with a win.
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Pete ended his career because he was mentally done in, not because he wanted to start a family, his son was born in November anyway. There’s nothing about that in his book and he wasn’t saying that at the time.

He also didn’t know he was retiring at the end of the 2002 USO. He planned to play Wimbledon in 2003 and began grass practice but realized his head wasn’t in it and then walked away.
 
Sampras retired at 31, that was so early compared to today's top players. Things have changed since then, and if Sampras played today, no doubt he would have played few years longer than he did.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Pete ended his career because he was mentally done in, not because he wanted to start a family, his son was born in November anyway. There’s nothing about that in his book and he wasn’t saying that at the time.

He also didn’t know he was retiring at the end of the 2002 USO. He planned to play Wimbledon in 2003 and began grass practice but realized his head wasn’t in it and then walked away.
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Very true @BeatlesFan, you get this round.
 
Red Rick said:
Berrettini is a certified servebot with no backhand, woudl fit right in in the 90s. Zverev would love the 90s clay field I'm sure.
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ROFLMAO you don't have a teaspoon of a clue what you're talking about

90s clay featured the DEEPEST field in history, a gauntlet of dirtball specialists that would run roughshod over the MUG clay fields of the last 15 years.. This is back when TRUE surface diversity existed and not like the homogenized conditions of today where Monte Carlo plays like Wimbledon

90s had PEAK versions of Guga, Muster, Bruguera, Courier with DEPTH provided by the likes of Agassi, Moya, Pete, Kafelnikov, Costa etc. Make sure you Wikipedia these players before responding...

Dropping names like Zverev and Berrettini???? Please. A way past his prime Guga operating on a artificial hip laid a straight set smackdown on Feddy boy at his peak.. These no name, talentless MUGs would be lucky to get past the qualifiers
 
Pete Prime said:
about as good as Fed's v Arazi, Horna, Guga & Rafa, a.k.a. the true claycourters he's played - WHO he played on faster clay than Pete ever set FOOT on
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lost track of how many french opens pete won? or masters on clay? or even 250’s for that matter. let’s ask jim courier.
 
lulz. Sampras can't even make a slam final on clay. Most complete game, my foot.
If you are talking about baseline proficiency+net play, you pick Laver, not Sampras.

If you are talking offense+defense along with good net play, you have Federer.
 
brian anderson said:
lost track of how many french opens pete won? or masters on clay? or even 250’s for that matter. let’s ask jim courier.
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for his time and era, i mean no other era had surfaces as varying as the 90s, he did quite well on clay........jim courier would only tell us how he felt after 96 roland garros, muster and kuerten have high regard for him on clay as well........he was limited on the surface mostly due to his medical condition, the same reason why he struggled in the scorching melbourne heat........he had the game for all surfaces.........
 
Start da Game said:
for his time and era, i mean no other era had surfaces as varying as the 90s, he did quite well on clay........jim courier would only tell us how he felt after 96 roland garros, muster and kuerten have high regard for him on clay as well........he was limited on the surface mostly due to his medical condition, the same reason why he struggled in the scorching melbourne heat........he had the game for all surfaces.........
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shhhhh "Pete sucked on clay, couldn't hit a groundstroke to save his life, only knew how to rush the net and bash aces..."
 
Pete Prime said:
shhhhh "Pete sucked on clay, couldn't hit a groundstroke to save his life, only knew how to rush the net and bash aces..."
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who can forget his heroic davis cup victory against russia in russia on clay........i for one cannot.......the guy is brutally underrated on the surface........if roland garros had a roof back then, i am pretty sure he would have won one slam there.........
 
Start da Game said:
who can forget his heroic davis cup victory against russia in russia on clay........i for one cannot.......the guy is brutally underrated on the surface........if roland garros had a roof back then, i am pretty sure he would have won one slam there.........
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If Pete had put away Brugeura in straights earlier in the tourney, he'd have gotten it done in '96, smh
 
Pete Prime said:
If Pete had put away Brugeura in straights earlier in the tourney, he'd have gotten it done in '96, smh
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it would have been epic, i was a 10 year old back then rooting desperately for pete as i was just getting into the sport and learning that roland garros is the toughest of them all to win........

taking nothing away from fed but when he first came along and did what he did in the mid 2000s, it was nothing new to me after watching pete.........example the passing shots off fed's forehand which we all awed at when he played in his prime in mid 2000s, i have seen pete execute them with his old pro-staff stick ten years earlier against the likes of much better volleyers like becker, kafelnikov.........he put up an exhibition of passing winners against johnny mac when he was still in diapers and johnny mac the legend played his best tennis in a long time at us open 1990........
 
Red Rick said:
Yeah I saw the draw

Semifinals were 3 servebots and a guy who never broke the top 20. Tells you all about 90s clay.
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That you had guys who could win on a surface they weren't suited to. Ah, the good ol' days ;)
 
Pete Prime said:
Yep, he wanted to start a family and only went as far as the 2002 Open because he wanted to end it with a win.
BUT if he wanted to keep playing, he could have had a shot at Wimbledon in '03 and faster slams in general for a couple more years.
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Sampras was never beating Federer in Wimbeldon 2003. He would have got ripped.
 
RS said:
Sampras was never beating Federer in Wimbeldon 2003. He would have got ripped.
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tenor.gif


April fools is about 4 months away bud, but props on the head start
 
Start da Game said:
agassi in his 20s couldn't take pete to 5 sets ever at us open in all his three meetings........agassi in his mid 30s takes 2004 fed to 5 sets at us open in just his first meeting at the slam.........you take your pick........
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Toche. I still doubt Sampras pulls it off at that age vs Federer though.
 
RS said:
Toche. I still doubt Sampras pulls it off at that age vs Federer though.
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I'm sensing you're that rarest of things...a sensible Big 3 fan.
Pete DEFINITELY has a >50% against Fed in '03-04 at Open and Wimbers. After that it gets a little tricky with age and resurfacing. I'd give him '03 Wimbers and '03 Open, and good shot of playing spoiler to one of the top guys in '04 at either
 
NatF said:
Agassi had insane wind as an equaliser.
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Federer was younger, faster, stronger, fitter, more agile, and hit with more topspin yet somehow the wind affected his level more than Andre who hit flat as a pancake? Never understood this line of reasoning.
 
Pete Prime said:
I'm sensing you're that rarest of things...a sensible Big 3 fan.
Pete DEFINITELY has a >50% against Fed in '03-04 at Open and Wimbers. After that it gets a little tricky with age and resurfacing. I'd give him '03 Wimbers and '03 Open, and good shot of playing spoiler to one of the top guys in '04 at either
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Was trolling so dont know about the full details. Sampras might have felt he had his last hurrah in 02 so would have been hard to mantain that level.
 
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Pete Prime said:
I'm sensing you're that rarest of things...a sensible Big 3 fan.
Pete DEFINITELY has a >50% against Fed in '03-04 at Open and Wimbers. After that it gets a little tricky with age and resurfacing. I'd give him '03 Wimbers and '03 Open, and good shot of playing spoiler to one of the top guys in '04 at either
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Pete would get STOMPED by fed at Wim 03. He couldn't handle Fed at wim 01. He's going to handle a much better Fed at Wim 03?

oh and Pete would lose to a lot of people at USO 03 as well - Roddick, Ferrero, Federer, Nalbandian .....

you are one delusional bozo.
 
RS said:
Was trolling so dont know about the full details. Sampras might have felt he had his last hurrah in 02 so would have been hard to mantain that level.
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Pete would have DOMINATED Fed in '03 at Wimbers if he was focused & fit. As for 2004, give him a bigger racket, modern juices and poly strings...things get interesting.
 
Pete Prime said:
Federer was younger, faster, stronger, fitter, more agile, and hit with more topspin yet somehow the wind affected his level more than Andre who hit flat as a pancake? Never understood this line of reasoning.
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last 2 sets were played on the next day. Fitness doesn't come into it. Agassi simply had considerably more experience playing in the wind and windy conditions make it an equalizer. You don't understand reasoning because your head is filled with fed-hate.

nadal hits with more topspin than federer, but got dominated by fed at IW in 12 in windy conditions.
 
Pete Prime said:
Pete would have DOMINATED Fed in '03 at Wimbers if he was focused & fit. As for 2004, give him a bigger racket, modern juices and poly strings...things get interesting.
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Pete was focussed and fit in Wim 01. Got beat by Fed. He would get STOMPED by a MUCH better fed in Wim 03.

Oh and Fed of Wim 03 SF/F would beat any version of Sampras at Wimbledon.

2003 Sampras? ROTFLMAO. :-D :-D :-D :-D
 
Start da Game said:
agassi in his 20s couldn't take pete to 5 sets ever at us open in all his three meetings........agassi in his mid 30s takes 2004 fed to 5 sets at us open in just his first meeting at the slam.........you take your pick........
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The same Federer in his first US Open SF at that point playing a legend of the game? Don't think you can extrapolate too much from that.
 
Pete Prime said:
Federer was younger, faster, stronger, fitter, more agile, and hit with more topspin yet somehow the wind affected his level more than Andre who hit flat as a pancake? Never understood this line of reasoning.
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This is the line of debating Djokovic fans use when people say Djokovic struggled with 33-34 year old Federer actually.
 
RS said:
This is the line of debating Djokovic fans use when people say Djokovic struggled with 33-34 year old Federer actually.
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Two things -
1. Agility, footwork, and topspin are the most important qualities in neutralizing wind's influence on the trajectory of your short and keeping your play steady. Fed had the edge in all three, thus the edge over Agassi in the encounter.
2. Back to the point about Wimbledon '03 - Pete would have DOMINATED Fed with a bigger head and poly that year
;)
 
Pete Prime said:
Two things -
1. Agility, footwork, and topspin are the most important qualities in neutralizing wind's influence on the trajectory of your short and keeping your play steady. Fed had the edge in all three, thus the edge over Agassi in the encounter.
2. Back to the point about Wimbledon '03 - Pete would have DOMINATED Fed with a bigger head and poly that year
;)
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Dont think Pete would be the favourite in those slams to Federer he claim but we can only speculate how he could have changed his game.

The USO 04 is a point against Fed he was favoured that day no doubt.
 
Pete Prime said:
2. Back to the point about Wimbledon '03 - Pete would have DOMINATED Fed with a bigger head and poly that year
;)
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Pete would get beaten by Roddick/Scud in Wim 03. If it came to fed, he would get STOMPED.
Fed was playing with the 85 racquet when he beat Pete in Wim 01.
 
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