Sampras vs Roddick - who has the better overall serve?

Who has got the better overall serve?

  • Andy Roddick

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • Pete Sampras

    Votes: 16 59.3%
  • Both have equally good overall serves

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Total voters
    27

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
No it wasn't. Roddicks old flat forehand was a hit or miss shot, and usually only good for inside out or straight down the pipe. It was not a great cross court forehand. I loved watching him back then but it was nowhere near as consistent of a shot as the federer forehand.

Serve better, forehand worse, serve+FH together for similar value.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
Compare what data, % of serves returned? And where would that be available en masse?

One good indication of how they handle the serve is the amount of aces they let by per game/set, and Henman is much better there than Agassi. Another is how many returns are in play, and for that you need to watch the matches, which I have done.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Roddick leads Sampras in hold% on EVERY SINGLE SURFACE.

Unless we assume that Roddick is the better overall player who holds more often despite having a worse serve, Roddick is easily the better server.

Since Sampras leads Roddick in break% by a healthy margin on every surface, we can safely conclude Sampras has the better ground game.

Ergo.

Roddick is easily the better server than Sampras.

It's not close.

The only reason to think Sampras is a better server is "erhmagherdd eye test" and being mouthbreathing idiot

That depends on what you are looking at :

Slam QF and above on non-clay surfaces(since Roddick didn't even make a QF at RG):
Sampras' hold % is 91.1%
Roddick's hold % is 86.2%

A significant ~5% difference

-------------

Also ,

No of matches for Roddick vs top 10 = 110/828 = 13.29%
No of matches for Roddick vs top 20 = 191/828 = 23.01%

No of matches for Sampras vs top 10 = 197/996 = 19.78%
No of matches for Sampras vs top 10 = 341/996 = 34.23%

Roddick playing a clearly lesser% of top 10/top 20 players counterbalances Sampras having a clearly better ground game (atleast to a great extent)..

------------

also to be highlighted is :

Hold % vs top 10 ...Sampras ...87.7%
Roddick ....81.6%

A significant 6% difference

Hold% vs top 20 ....Sampras 87.8%
Roddick ....85%

Difference reduces here by quite a bit.

---------------

If it is a high stakes match or vs a top player (top 10 or known rival), I'd give Sampras the edge.
on a more "normal" match, I'd give Roddick the edge.

But nice effort at categorizing all those who call Sampras' serve better as idiots without even looking at the context or stats in detail properly.
 
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BGod

G.O.A.T.
Roddick had the stronger serve obviously but Sampras had the better placement which is why he won a hell of a lot more tiebreakers.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
That depends on what you are looking at :

Slam QF and above on non-clay surfaces(since Roddick didn't even make a QF at RG):
Sampras' hold % is 91.1%
Roddick's hold % is 86.2%

A significant ~5% difference

-------------

Also ,

No of matches for Roddick vs top 10 = 110/828 = 13.29%
No of matches for Roddick vs top 20 = 191/828 = 23.01%

No of matches for Sampras vs top 10 = 197/996 = 19.78%
No of matches for Sampras vs top 10 = 341/996 = 34.23%

Roddick playing a clearly lesser% of top 10/top 20 players counterbalances Sampras having a clearly better ground game (atleast to a great extent)..

------------

also to be highlighted is :

Hold % vs top 10 ...Sampras ...87.7%
Roddick ....81.6%

A significant 6% difference

Hold% vs top 20 ....Sampras 87.8%
Roddick ....85%

Difference reduces here by quite a bit.

---------------

If it is a high stakes match or vs a top player (top 10 or known rival), I'd give Sampras the edge.
on a more "normal" match, I'd give Roddick the edge.

But nice effort at categorizing all those who call Sampras' serve better as idiots without even looking at the context or stats in detail properly.

Hold procentages are still sensitive to how well they are playing. Roddicks procentages also dropped a bit with age. His lifetime first serve win procentage going below 80% when he was as high as 83% on hardcourts in 2005. Hold procentages as well dropped. Lifetime stats should take into concideration how well the respective player aged in the game, and I don't think Roddick aged even near the level of Sampras who reached the finals of the US Open is last three years, and won one of them.

Lifetime stats are also sensitive how strong they were before their prime.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
If it is a high stakes match or vs a top player (top 10 or known rival), I'd give Sampras the edge.
on a more "normal" match, I'd give Roddick the edge.
.

Not sure why you would think that would make a difference. The better serve is more effective either way.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
I find it interesting how many people voted Sampras, when his first serve wasn't even the best in his own era, let alone Roddicks.

Richard Krajicek and Goran Ivanesivic had objectively better first serves, and adequate second serves.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Not sure why you would think that would make a difference. The better serve is more effective either way.

Because Sampras raised his level (including serve) when playing a high stakes match or top player/known rivals
Roddick's serve was clearly faster on an average. But Sampras' serve was more unreadable. So when Sampras brought the heat and concentrated highly in high stake matches or top players/known rivals, it was tougher to handle.

In other "normal" matches, Sampras didn't bother to concentrate or bring in the heat as much. So Roddick's serve was better in these sort of matches.

See the difference in service games vs top 10 and top 20 for Sampras ? 87.7 vs 87.8......Yeah, almost nothing.
You'd expect it to go up vs top 20 since 11-20 are on an average less effective than top 10. It didn't.
Because he raised his level vs top 10.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
Because Sampras raised his level (including serve) when playing a high stakes match or top player/known rivals
Roddick's serve was clearly faster on an average. But Sampras' serve was more unreadable. So when Sampras brought the heat and concentrated highly in high stake matches or top players/known rivals, it was tougher to handle.

In other "normal" matches, Sampras didn't bother to concentrate or bring in the heat as much. So Roddick's serve was better in these sort of matches.

See the difference in service games vs top 10 and top 20 for Sampras ? 87.7 vs 87.8......Yeah, almost nothing.
You'd expect it to go up vs top 20 since 11-20 are on an average less effective than top 10. It didn't.
Because he raised his level vs top 10.

You are welcomed to argue that Sampras was a superior server. My only interest is who has the better serve technically. Roddick does not appear to give away early which spot he is serving at, but I'm not the best eyes to judge. I think one handers have a distinct advantage returning serve, which is why peak Fed is the nr 1 defensive returner of all time IMO.... Not because Roddick gave anything away.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
All else equal and Fed has a two handed backhand - Roddick aces him around the same ratio as he did to Hewitt, Agassi etc.
 

Heuristic

Hall of Fame
You need to take stats for that, memory can get pretty biased especially if you watched a long time ago.

I have watched recently. Agassis defensive returning was always such and such. He was the greatest offensive returner however, which however does him very little good against big servers, unless he just so happens to guess the right corners.. or return average speed second serve.
 
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