Sampras's era vs Federer's era vs Nadal's era vs Djokovic's era vs Sinneraz's era, which era's tennis quality you liked the most as a viewer ?

[Sampras Serve]

We can Classify Tennis in the last 33 years into 5 eras

1--- 1993W-2000W ---- Pete Sampras's Serve and Volley Era, an era in which Sampras was the most dominant force in Tennis.

2--- 2000USO-2007USO ---- Roger Federer's era which is the Gut to Poly Transition era of Tennis. An Era gatekept by Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, JCF as rank 1s until Federer took firm control of tennis and ruled with an Iron fist.

3--- 2008-2014FO ---- Rafael Nadal's Strong Era with many iconic, masculine high octane matches were fought when great players were physically in their primes/peaks. Nadal brought down the seemingly invincible Federer in 08, saw the rise of Djokovic in 11 and brought him down in 2012-13 too.

4--- 2014W-2023USO ---- Djokovic's Era when Becker created Djokovic 3.0 who took over records like a Boa Constrictor conquering its prey. Despite Federer being 33+ and Nadal being a shadow of his pre 2014 self, this was an unprecendented era where youngsters (Thiem-Med-Zverev-Tsitsipas) were unable to inflict any real dent on Djokovic and declined Federer, Nadal... pretty unique era which might never happen again, IMO it is unlikely we will now see guys in 30s beating guys in 20s in every major tournament.

5--- 2024- Present ----- Sinner and Raz's new era which is a breath of fresh air to end the domination of the Big 3 for good. Rivalries between top 2 players are no longer heated today and is chill, tennis is chill, everybody is pretty chill....


Slam Winners in Pete Sampras's Serve and Volley Era (93W-00W)
Peak Sampras - 12 Slams
Peak Agassi - 5 Slams
Rafter, Bruguera, Kafelnikov, Kuerten - 2 Slam each
Courier, Krajicek, Muster, Becker, Korda, Moya - 1 Slam each

Slam Winners in Roger Federer's Gut-Poly Transition Era (00USO-07USO)
Peak Federer - 12 Slams
Baby Nadal - 3 Slams
Hewitt, 30+ Agassi, Peak Safin - 2 Slams Each
Roddick, JCF, Gaudio, Kuerten, Johansson, Costa, Ivanisevic, 30+ Pete - 1 Slam each

Slam Winners in the Rafael Nadal's Strong Era (08-14FO)
Peak Nadal - 11 Slams
Peak Djokovic - 6 Slams
Prime Federer - 6 Slams
Andy Murray - 2 Slams
Del Potro and Stanimal - 1 Slam each

Slam Winners in Novak Djokovic 3.0 era (14W-2023USO)
Djokovic - 18 Slams
Nadal - 9 Slams
Old Federer - 3 Slams
Stanimal and Baby Alcaraz - 2 Slams each
Cilic, Murray, Thiem, Medvedev - 1 Slam each

Sinner and Raz's new era of fresh air (2024- now)
Alcaraz - 5 Slams and continuing
Sinner - 5 Slams and continuing
Zverev - 2 Slams and continuing

 

[GoatNo1]

rafa had no era. he had a transitional year between feds (04-09) and noles 1st era (11-RG16)

how can 11-RG14 period be rafas but not noles era?

YE#1: 2-1
YE: 1,1,2 (average 1,3) vs 2,4,1 (2,3)
ITF champ: 3-0
points: 43910 - 35780 (8130 less points than nole in 3,5 years!!!)
slams: 6 - 5
WTF: 2-0
masters: 14-9
big titles: 22-14
all titles: 26-21
h2h: 12-7

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic era is 2011 to 2023, minus 2017.

You don't get to have an era if you cannot even have back to back years as world number one.

 

[Sampras Serve]

rafa had no era. he had a transitional year between feds (04-09) and noles 1st era (11-RG16)

Wishful thinking when it is Nadal who is known for the most iconics matches of 08-09 i.e Wimbledon 08 dethroning of Fed, 09 AO beating Federer and in 12-13 it is he who led the comeback against Djokovic which forced Djokovic to go to Boris Becker

but sure, keep convincing yourself that Nadal had no era.... only in TTW do we hear such things.

 

[Sampras Serve]

Djokovic era is 2011 to 2023, minus 2017.

You don't get to have an era if you cannot even have back to back years as world number one.

12-13 cannot be Djokovic's era when Nadal won 3 slams in this period and inflicted many big defeats on him.

Djokovic's 2011 was a lone year in between Nadal's era of 08-14fo.

 

[MichaelNadal]

12-13 cannot be Djokovic's era when Nadal won 3 slams in this period and inflicted many big defeats on him.

Djokovic's 2011 was a lone year in between Nadal's era of 08-14fo.

Draaaaag em bestie

 

[Hitman]

12-13 cannot be Djokovic's era when Nadal won 3 slams in this period and inflicted many big defeats on him.

Djokovic's 2011 was a lone year in between Nadal's era of 08-14fo.

Nadal doesn't get 2012 as his era, when he didn't even play for half of it.

2013 is the only year that Nadal actually outperformed Djokovic during 2011 to 2016.

2011, 2012, - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014, 2015, 2016 - Djokovic.

Djokovic from 2011 to 2023 - 23 slams, that is more slams than Nadal won his entire career, 428 weeks at number one, 8 year ending number ones. To say his dominant run was someone else's is a stretch.

If you want to say Big 4 era from 2008 to 2012 that is fine, but to give Nadal 2011, 2012, and 2014 as his era when Djokovic in thoe years won overall more slams than Nadal doesn't work.

It is very clear that Federer had an era, Nadal got sandwiched in the middle, and just as he had taken the reigns in 2010 when Federer had fallen off, Djokovic took over in 2011.

 

[USO2010]

12-13 cannot be Djokovic's era when Nadal won 3 slams in this period and inflicted many big defeats on him.

Djokovic's 2011 was a lone year in between Nadal's era of 08-14fo.

Djokovic lost 5 pivotal slam matches in his “era” to Murray and Wawrinka. (2012-16)

What an era for Djokovic that was indeed! Getting cooked by Nadal almost every year at the majors and losing to Murrinka.

 

[Sampras Serve]

Nadal doesn't get 2012 as his era, when he didn't even play for half of it.

2013 is the only year that Nadal actually outperformed Djokovic during 2011 to 2016.

2011, 2012, - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014, 2015, 2016 - Djokovic.

Djokovic from 2011 to 2023 - 23 slams, that is more slams than Nadal won his entire career, 428 weeks at number one, 8 year ending number ones. To say his dominant run was someone else's is a stretch.

If you want to say Big 4 era from 2008 to 2012 that is fine, but to give Nadal 2011, 2012, and 2014 as his era when Djokovic in thoe years won overall more slams than Nadal doesn't work.

It is very clear that Federer had an era, Nadal got sandwiched in the middle, and just as he had taken the reigns in 2010 when Federer had fallen off, Djokovic took over in 2011.

Nadal by going 3-0 vs Djokovic in Slams in 12-13 after the Aus Open setback showed that his era had not ended, 2012 is not Djokovic's era, thats for sure. Look at this article, in 2013 Djokovic was still seen as the 3rd man behind Federer and Nadal, one year of 2011 did not change that.

Novak Djokovic, the Third Man

From 2013: Lauren Collins on the Serbian tennis player and his rivalry with Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.

www.newyorker.com

2014 it is Boris Becker who finally fine tuned Djokovic into the player who would go one to become the slams leader in future, until then Djokovic's era had not yet begun.

Look if you are not ready to give Nadal his due and acknowledge his era and want to call that a Big 4 era? then we can say that no tennis player on earth has had an era. Fed's era was Fedal era ... 2014-2019 can be Big 3 era or something like that, 2020-2023 can be termed as Djokodal era because even Nadal won slams here.... basically no player had an era then @Hitman ? This is very bad thing to say that other GOAT players had their eras but Nadal did not? Extremely dishonest way of seeing things when Nadal was the one who dethroned Federer and then dethroned Djokovic too forcing him to go to Becker, 2 very crucial events that prove 08-13 is his era beyond any doubt.

Djokovic lost 5 pivotal slam matches in his “era” to Murray and Wawrinka. (2012-16)

What an era for Djokovic that was indeed! Getting cooked by Nadal almost every year at the majors and losing to Murrinka.

These people are lucky Nadal was injured for 2012 USO, otherwise he would have taken that Slam too.

Indeed, Djokovic is losing to Wawrinka and Murray in 5 slams and yet people want to give him the full decade, what a joke.... no respect for Nadal bringing down Fed at all, they have like totally brushed 08 Wimbledon under the rug, LOL

 

[junkieballer]

YEC10 to RG16 = battles between Big4 every week

 

[Hitman]

Nadal by going 3-0 vs Djokovic in Slams in 12-13 after the Aus Open setback showed that his era had not ended, 2012 is not Djokovic's era, thats for sure. Look at this article, in 2013 Djokovic was still seen as the 3rd man behind Federer and Nadal, one year of 2011 did not change that.

Year ending number one

2011 - Djokovic
2012 - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014 - Djokovic
2015 - Djokovic
2016 - Djokovic

From what angle does that look like it is Nadal's era?

Nadal went 1-1 against Djokovic in slams in 2012, he doesn't get that year when they split the slam matches. Also, Nadal was AWOL for last five months of 2012, how does that become his era when he wasn't even around?

Now lets look before that.

Year ending number one

2004 - Federer
2005 - Federer
2006 - Federer
2007 - Federer
2008 - Nadal
2009 - Federer

How does Nadal's era start in 2008, when after having a one year run, Federer wins all four slams during Nadal's so called era, USO 2008, RG 2009, W 2009, AO 2010, breaks the slam record and is holding three slams while Nadal is holding zero slams after AO 2010?


In 2011, Djokovic wrestles the number one ranking away from Nadal, and Nadal doesn't get it back until late 2013, how can it be Nadal's era, if for over two years he isn't even the world number one player?

Nadal failed to make any back to back year ending number ones, that alone basically knocks it out of the park. On his watch, not one, but TWO players got over 300 weeks each as world number one, and hold the top two spots.

In the so called Nadal era of 2008 to 2014 here are you ending number ones.

2008 - Nadal
2009 - Federer
2010 - Nadal
2011 - Djokovic
2012 - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014 - Djokovic

During this period, he had less year number one endings than he actually had year ending number one rankings.

Telling me what Becker said in 2013 isn't enough, Djokovic's era was still being written. I can say the same about Nadal being called done after 2009 season.

Nadal was the big rival to Federer and Djokovic, it was their eras, and he was their rival because he got sandwiched between them, that is actually what makes his case stronger.


He had a transition year in 2010, where he was the only ATG playing at his best level, Federer had dropped off after AO 2010 and Djokovic hadn't reahed that level until 2011.

 

[nighthawkrr]

Djokovic lost 5 pivotal slam matches in his “era” to Murray and Wawrinka. (2012-16)

What an era for Djokovic that was indeed! Getting cooked by Nadal almost every year at the majors and losing to Murrinka.

Murray and Stan peaked so high though. They broke their bodies to beat him. He played a more conservative style for longevity. Zverev and Sinner/Alcaraz will have a similar story. When Zverev win more slams vulturing the current tour because he’s healthy while they broke their wrist and knee.

 

[GoatNo1]

Nadal doesn't get 2012 as his era, when he didn't even play for half of it.

2013 is the only year that Nadal actually outperformed Djokovic during 2011 to 2016.

2011, 2012, - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014, 2015, 2016 - Djokovic.

Djokovic from 2011 to 2023 - 23 slams, that is more slams than Nadal won his entire career, 428 weeks at number one, 8 year ending number ones. To say his dominant run was someone else's is a stretch.

If you want to say Big 4 era from 2008 to 2012 that is fine, but to give Nadal 2011, 2012, and 2014 as his era when Djokovic in thoe years won overall more slams than Nadal doesn't work.

It is very clear that Federer had an era, Nadal got sandwiched in the middle, and just as he had taken the reigns in 2010 when Federer had fallen off, Djokovic took over in 2011.

he did not outperformed nole. he had slightly better year. nole was ITF champ for whole 11-15 period. rafa had only 770 points more than nole by the end of 2013. to compare nole had 4035 and 6230 more points than rafa in 2011 and 2012! so in whole 11-13 period nole had 9,5 K points more than rafa!

 

[MichaelNadal]

Djokovic lost 5 pivotal slam matches in his “era” to Murray and Wawrinka. (2012-16)

What an era for Djokovic that was indeed! Getting cooked by Nadal almost every year at the majors and losing to Murrinka.

STRETCH HIM

 

[GoatNo1]

Djokovic era is 2011 to 2023, minus 2017.

You don't get to have an era if you cannot even have back to back years as world number one.

nole had 2 eras: 11-RG16 and W18-23

 

[Hitman]

he did not outperformed nole. he had slightly better year. nole was ITF champ for whole 11-15 period. rafa had only 770 points more than nole by the end of 2013. to compare nole had 4035 and 6230 more points than rafa in 2011 and 2012! so in whole 11-13 period nole had 9,5 K points more than rafa!

I'm Ok with giving Nadal 2013, he won two slams and five masters.

Whether he outperformed or was slightly better, I think we can agree 2013 was Nadal's year.

But lets break down this misconception of Nadal having his own era.

Even if we look at 2011 to 2013 as a whole, - in the H2H between them in slams, it is 3-3. Overall Djokovic won 5 slams during this period, and Nadal won 4 slams. Djokovic won 2 YEC titles, Nadal won zero, Djokovic had 2 year ending number ones and Nadal had one of them.

Overall H2H, Djokovic has more wins over Nadal than vice versa.

Weeks at number one Djokovic dominates Nadal's numbers.

It is clear that while there is a great rivalry between them, Djokovic's overall superior consistency and overall title count during that period means Djokovic's era started in 2011.

 

[Sampras Serve]

Year ending number one

2011 - Djokovic
2012 - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014 - Djokovic
2015 - Djokovic
2016 - Djokovic

From what angle does that look like it is Nadal's era?

Nadal went 1-1 against Djokovic in slams in 2012, he doesn't get that year when they split the slam matches. Also, Nadal was AWOL for last five months of 2012, how does that become his era when he wasn't even around?

Now lets look before that.

Year ending number one

2004 - Federer
2005 - Federer
2006 - Federer
2007 - Federer
2008 - Nadal
2009 - Federer

How does Nadal's era start in 2008, when after having a one year run, Federer wins all four slams during Nadal's so called era, USO 2008, RG 2009, W 2009, AO 2010, breaks the slam record and is holding three slams while Nadal is holding zero slams after AO 2010?


In 2011, Djokovic wrestles the number one ranking away from Nadal, and Nadal doesn't get it back until late 2013, how can it be Nadal's era, if for over two years he isn't even the world number one player?

Nadal failed to make any back to back year ending number ones, that alone basically knocks it out of the park. On his watch, not one, but TWO players got over 300 weeks each as world number one, and hold the top two spots.

In the so called Nadal era of 2008 to 2014 here are you ending number ones.

2008 - Nadal
2009 - Federer
2010 - Nadal
2011 - Djokovic
2012 - Djokovic
2013 - Nadal
2014 - Djokovic

During this period, he had less year number one endings than he actually had year ending number one rankings.

Telling me what Becker said in 2013 isn't enough, Djokovic's era was still being written. I can say the same about Nadal being called done after 2009 season.

Nadal was the big rival to Federer and Djokovic, it was their eras, and he was their rival because he got sandwiched between them, that is actually what makes his case stronger.


He had a transition year in 2010, where he was the only ATG playing at his best level, Federer had dropped off after AO 2010 and Djokovic hadn't reahed that level until 2011.

Ok lets look it this way

2008 - Nadal tore Federer down, dethroned him.
2009 - Made Federer cry profusely, it is Nadal missing W and next AO that helped Federer win those. The public perception in 2009 is that Rafael Nadal is the alpha on tour and Federer is already 2nd.
2010 - This is Nadal's year. At the US Open Nadal was so dominant that Djokovic who beat Fed got thrashed.
2011 - Yes this is Djokovic's year when he tore down Nadal
2012 - Nadal had a 3-1 h2h win over Djokovic and as @MichaelNadal would say, 1 shot away from going 4-0.
2013 - Even though overall h2h was split, in slams Nadal led Novak 2-0 .... Djokovic went to Boris Becker, called him to help.... Enough said

So 08-13 is firmly Nadal's era with the exception of the year 2011.

 

[Hitman]

nole had 2 eras: 11-RG16 and W18-23

I still think it is basically the same era, he simply had a pause in 2017, which was inevitable after six seasons.

 

[GoatNo1]

I'm Ok with giving Nadal 2013, he won two slams and five masters.

Whether he outperformed or was slightly better, I think we can agree 2013 was Nadal's year.

But lets break down this misconception of Nadal having his own era.

Even if we look at 2011 to 2013 as a whole, - in the H2H between them in slams, it is 3-3. Overall Djokovic won 5 slams during this period, and Nadal won 4 slams. Djokovic won 2 YEC titles, Nadal won zero, Djokovic had 2 year ending number ones and Nadal had one of them.

Overall H2H, Djokovic has more wins over Nadal than vice versa.

Weeks at number one Djokovic dominates Nadal's numbers.

It is clear that while there is a great rivalry between them, Djokovic's overall superior consistency and overall title count during that period means Djokovic's era started in 2011.

that year was in the middle of noles era. nole was much better than rafa in rest of 11-16 period and rafa was just slightly better than nole in 2013.

as i said in period 11-RG14 that OP gived to rafa this was result:
YE#1: 2-1
YE: 1,1,2 (average 1,3) vs 2,4,1 (2,3)
ITF champ: 3-0
points: 43910 - 35780 (8130 less points than nole in 3,5 years!!!)
slams: 6 - 5
WTF: 2-0
masters: 14-9
big titles: 22-14
all titles: 26-21
h2h: 12-7

 

[Sampras Serve]

Fact : Between 2008-2013, except Davydenko and Roscol, everybody on tour had a losing h2h to Nadal

Federer the crybaby was 4-14 vs Nadal in this period, a royal 0-5 in slams.
Djokovic was still a respectable 15-16 but in slams he was 3-5

 

[GoatNo1]

I still think it is basically the same era, he simply had a pause in 2017, which was inevitable after six seasons.

it is actually 2 years that he missed due injuries and some motivations problems. W16-RG18 period. for me thats pretty big hole to take it as his era.

 

[Neptune]

If this is a thread started by Razer, then nothing surprises me.
Looking forward to the introduction of "player's wallet" into the greatness debate, lol.

 

[Hitman]

Ok lets look it this way

2008 - Nadal tore Federer down, dethroned him.

So? Djokovic dethroned Nadal in 2011 but you ignore that and say the era is still Nadal's. Be consistent.

2009 - Made Federer cry profusely, it is Nadal missing W and next AO that helped Federer win those. The public perception in 2009 is that Rafael Nadal is the alpha on tour and Federer is already 2nd.

Federer cried yes, but Federer made all four slam finals that year and ended the year world number one. Nadal was dethroned at RG by Soderling, didn't even play Wimbledon and was crushed by Del Potro in USO. He didn't win a single title after Rome 2009, while Federer wins three of the next four slams after that. Public perception doesn't change what is happening on the court. After AO 2010, with 16 slams and the slam record and career slam in the bag, Federer was outright the king of tennis, not Nadal.

2010 - This is Nadal's year. At the US Open Nadal was so dominant that Djokovic who beat Fed got thrashed.

This is the year Nadal gets, the transition year between Federer's decline after AO 2010, his 18 out 19 slam final streak, his 23 semi final streak all end at RG, he almost loses first round at Wimbledon. Djokovic with zero top ten wins until he beats a declining Federer who tanked two of the five sets, something he admitted, he said he was saving energy for the final, and still had MP. But Nadal gets it, he was at his peak.

2011 - Yes this is Djokovic's year when he tore down Nadal

Right, so now apply the 2008 rule here, or don't apply it in either case. Fair?

2012 - Nadal had a 3-1 h2h win over Djokovic and as @MichaelNadal would say, 1 shot away from going 4-0.

Djokovic missed a sitter of a forehand to have 3 CP in the fourth set in AO final, it would have been over in four sets. Funny how it is always about that BH, Nadal was lucky there was a fifth set due to that missed forehand from Djokovic.

And so what if it was 3-1? Nadal withdrew from Miami semi, knowing Djokovic waa waiting the final. In W 2012, whil Djokovic was battling Federer, Nadal was get beaten by Rosol, and then doesn't play Djokovic anywhere for the rest of the season, Djokovic doesn't get Nadal indoors at YEC, where he beat Federer in a classic. So not playing or withdrawing before a match in Miami isn't the flex you may think IMO.

2013 - Even though overall h2h was split, in slams 2-0 .... Djokovic went to Boris Becker ask called him to help.... Enough said

I already give Nadal 2013, he deserves that one year.

So 08-13 is firmly Nadal's era with the exception of the year 2011.

I've just shown why he doesn't.

Nadal failed to make any back to back year ending number ones. You do understand to have an era, you need to be the number one player in the world for long periods of time, yes? How is it Nadal's era, when during it, Djokovic was year ending number one in 2011 and 2012?

Nadal also after W 2012 does not play for 7 months....yeah, you don't get to have an era while you sit at home and others battle for the titles.

 

[USO2010]

Ok lets look it this way

2008 - Nadal tore Federer down, dethroned him.
2009 - Made Federer cry profusely, it is Nadal missing W and next AO that helped Federer win those. The public perception in 2009 is that Rafael Nadal is the alpha on tour and Federer is already 2nd.
2010 - This is Nadal's year. At the US Open Nadal was so dominant that Djokovic who beat Fed got thrashed.
2011 - Yes this is Djokovic's year when he tore down Nadal
2012 - Nadal had a 3-1 h2h win over Djokovic and as @MichaelNadal would say, 1 shot away from going 4-0.
2013 - Even though overall h2h was split, in slams 2-0 .... Djokovic went to Boris Becker ask called him to help.... Enough said

So 08-13 is firmly Nadal's era with the exception of the year 2011.

Yeah. I mean this is it. Basically.

The only thing qualification is, Nadal had a degenerative foot condition which hampered his availability, so he was not able to meet Djokovic for the entirety of 12-13. He loses a few brownie points there. And that’s fair….but by the same token, achieving what he did outside of clay with his condition is remarkable and the context needs to be factored into the evaluation…so by the flip side, he regains those same lost brownie points.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Fact : Between 2008-2013, except Davydenko and Roscol, everybody on tour had a losing h2h to Nadal

Federer the crybaby was 4-14 vs Nadal in this period, a royal 0-5 in slams.
Djokovic was still a respectable 15-16 but in slams he was 3-5

 

[Hitman]

that year was in the middle of noles era. nole was much better than rafa in rest of 11-16 period and rafa was just slightly better than nole in 2013.

as i said in period 11-RG14 that OP gived to rafa this was result:
YE#1: 2-1
YE: 1,1,2 (average 1,3) vs 2,4,1 (2,3)
ITF champ: 3-0
points: 43910 - 35780 (8130 less points than nole in 3,5 years!!!)
slams: 6 - 5
WTF: 2-0
masters: 14-9
big titles: 22-14
all titles: 26-21
h2h: 12-7

Yes, we know how the eras actually are.

Federer's is YEC 2003 to AO 2010
Nadal gets the transition of 2010
Djokovic takes over after AO 2011

 

[USO2010]

Djokovic was losing to Murray in 2012-13, and at his supposed “peak” years lost 2 finals to Stan

Djokovic Era my ass. Imagine Fed losing 5 slams to Hewitt and Safin from 04-07.

 

[Hitman]

it is actually 2 years that he missed due injuries and some motivations problems. W16-RG18 period. for me thats pretty big hole to take it as his era.

But season wise

2016 - Multiple slam winner
2017 - No titles
2018 - Multiple slam winner

 

[Sampras Serve]

So? Djokovic dethroned Nadal in 2011 but you ignore that and say the era is still Nadal's. Be consistent.

I would have easily said 11-15 is Djokovic's era if 12-13 were also years where he is having winning h2hs over Nadal and also winning more slams than him, but that was not the case. If dethroning from rank 1 is that bad then let me remind you Novak was not rank 1 in 2019, in 2022, should we say that that period does not belong to Djokovic? I am consistent, thats why despite Djokovic not being rank 1 in 17, 19 and 22 I have just given him 14-23 flat because he is the man to beat in this period, I know that. He being injured in 17-18 is what allowed Federer-Nadal to go on a stretch sharing slams in between.

So? Djokovic dethroned Nadal in 2011 but you ignore that and say the era is still Nadal's. Be consistent.



Federer cried yes, but Federer made all four slam finals that year and ended the year world number one. Nadal was dethroned at RG by Soderling, didn't even play Wimbledon and was crushed by Del Potro in USO. He didn't win a single title after Rome 2009, while Federer wins three of the next four slams after that. Public perception doesn't change what is happening on the court. After AO 2010, with 16 slams and the slam record and career slam in the bag, Federer was outright the king of tennis, not Nadal.


This is the year Nadal gets, the transition year between Federer's decline after AO 2010, his 18 out 19 slam final streak, his 23 semi final streak all end at RG, he almost loses first round at Wimbledon. Djokovic with zero top ten wins until he beats a declining Federer who tanked two of the five sets, something he admitted, he said he was saving energy for the final, and still had MP. But Nadal gets it, he was at his peak.


Right, so now apply the 2008 rule here, or don't apply it in either case. Fair?


Djokovic missed a sitter of a forehand to have 3 CP in the fourth set in AO final, it would have been over in four sets. Funny how it is always about that BH, Nadal was lucky there was a fifth set due to that missed forehand from Djokovic.

And so what if it was 3-1? Nadal withdrew from Miami semi, knowing Djokovic waa waiting the final. In W 2012, whil Djokovic was battling Federer, Nadal was get beaten by Rosol, and then doesn't play Djokovic anywhere for the rest of the season, Djokovic doesn't get Nadal indoors at YEC, where he beat Federer in a classic. So not playing or withdrawing before a match in Miami isn't the flex you may think IMO.




Nadal failed to make any back to back year ending number ones. You do understand to have an era, you need to be the number one player in the world for long periods of time, yes? How is it Nadal's era, when during it, Djokovic was year ending number one in 2011 and 2012?

Nadal also after W 2012 does not play for 7 months....yeah, you don't get to have an era while you sit at home and others battle for the titles.

If you are hell bent on rank 1 being pivotal for someone being ranked 1 then I must say that 207-2023 period did not belong to Djokovic, that would be unreasonable.

I have already given the longest period from 14-23 a full decade to Djokovic ignoring the rank 1 thing which you mention because in the public's mind whoever is the man to beat must own the era too, same as saying Fed won slams in 09 but he was dethroned. Now remmeber if Fed had dominated Nadal in 10 and 11 then nobody would even talk of 2008 as Nadal's era start point, the fact that 08-13 is when Nadal has a hold over the tour, a weak one that 03-07 or 18-23, 14-15, still, a hold a hold.

 

[Hitman]

Fact : Between 2008-2013, except Davydenko and Roscol, everybody on tour had a losing h2h to Nadal

Federer the crybaby was 4-14 vs Nadal in this period, a royal 0-5 in slams.
Djokovic was still a respectable 15-16 but in slams he was 3-5

Yes, but the years I dispute for Djokovic

2011 to 2013 - What was the slam H2H and the overall H2H?

 

[Sampras Serve]

Yes, but the years I dispute for Djokovic

2011 to 2013 - What was the slam H2H and the overall H2H?

Why should 2011 be the starting point?

Why not include 2010 or 2008 as start points for that and count till 2016?

You are using 2011 just to include the bad periods of 12-13 for Novak to make it look like Nadal had no era.

 

[GoatNo1]

But season wise

2016 - Multiple slam winner
2017 - No titles
2018 - Multiple slam winner

i know, but era and peak performance or prime does not need to overlap with seasons. feds clearly does, noles does not. noles peak is paris14-RG16. peak year W15-RG16. so is his eras also 11-RG16 and W18-23.

 

[USO2010]

The only real Djokovic era was the crap from 2021-23. The zombie mug era.

08-13 - Nadal got the better of him in majors. Hell even Fed at the tail end of his prime was cooking him. Murray cooked him from 12-13.
Nadal won the most slams despite being injured half the time and dominated Novak barring that 2011 peak.

14-16 - Djokovic cooked by Stan in the majors 3 times at his “peak.” Was only able to feast on old Fed and tier 2 Murray. How can we confidently say it is Novak’s era if the guy lost one slam per year to Stan?

17-19 - CIE, the big 3 all vultured their share

21-23 - Djokovic era beating up on various mugs that are begging for a spank. Mugs like Medvedev contemplating switching to pickleball. Can’t make this **** up, these guys were mugs.

 

[Neptune]

Rafa's era started with the max rigged draws? What a shame!

Then came 2011. Nole beat the establishment and Fedal combine, making them two big pigeons until their retirement.

That's the GOAT Nole's era.

 

[Nappa]

Djokovic era is 2011 to 2023, minus 2017.

You don't get to have an era if you cannot even have back to back years as world number one.

Djokovic feasted on the remains of a bygone era. One that was greater, more epic, and more colossal. He was like a subterranean rodent that survived the age of the dinosaurs, only to expand its dominion in the absence of creatures far more fierce and powerful than itself.

 

[Struggler]

Tennis during Roger's time was nice to watch but often the matches were lopsided (either Fed was beating everybody, either he was losing to Nadal).
Sinner vs Alcaraz matches are closer and highly watchable, also because they are devoid of gamesmanship.

 

[Sampras Serve]

The only real Djokovic era was the crap from 2021-23. The zombie mug era.

08-13 - Nadal got the better of him in majors. Hell even Fed at the tail end of his prime was cooking him. Murray cooked him from 12-13.
Nadal won the most slams despite being injured half the time and dominated Novak barring that 2011 peak.

14-16 - Djokovic cooked by Stan in the majors 3 times at his “peak.” Was only able to feast on old Fed and tier 2 Murray.

17-19 - CIE, the big 3 all vultured their share

21-23 - Djokovic era beating up on various mugs that are begging for a spank. Mugs like Medvedev contemplating switching to pickleball. Can’t make this **** up, these guys were mugs.

Good points but I will still give Djokovic 2014 to 2023.

After Becker took over, he won Wimbledons back to back from Federer and navigated a very harsh crowed in new york in 2015, and since Nadal was down that year, it is fair to say that Djokovic was now firmly above Fedal. Nadal tried hard to get back the grip on the mental side of things at Wimbledon 2018 SF, a very crucial match which he failed under the roof .... so as I was explaining to @Hitman, the era is still Djokovic's even if Fed and Nadal are ranked 1-2 because they dont have the mental edge over Novak here, they never recovered it back. Nole destroyed Nadal at AO 19, beat Fed in 2019W and made him choke, and continued to break records... thats why I counted from 14 as that is when it all began firmly in his grasp.

 

[Hitman]

I would have easily said 11-15 is Djokovic's era if 12-13 were also slams where he is having winning h2hs over Nadal and also winning more slams than him, but that was not the case. If dethroning from rank 1 is that bad then let me remind you Novak was not rank 1 in 2019, in 2022, should we say that that period does not belong to Djokovic? I am consistent, thats why despite Djokovic not being rank 1 in 17, 19 and 22 I have just given him 14-23 flat because he is the man to beat in this period, I know that. He being injured in 17-18 is what allowed Federer-Nadal to go on a stretch sharing slams in between.

The period of 2011 to 2013 - Djokovic wins five slams, Nadal wins four slams. Djokovic actually wins more slams over these three seasons that you are giving to Nadal. Their slam H2H is also dead even during these years, it is 3-3. Nadal doesn't outperform Djokovic during this period to claim them as part of his era.

You have to now look at weeks at number one, year ending number one, overall H2H, YEC and Djokovic smashes Nadal in all of them.

So under no metric is Nadal better than Djokovic during those years of 2011-2013.

Regarding 2019 and 2022 - While he doesn't have back to back, this during a period where he still has more number ones than anyone else, and more slams than anyone else. So nobody outperformed him.

I go back to 2011 to 2013, that is Djkoovic's era, Nadal did NOT outpeforrm him in any metric.

If you are hell bent on rank 1 being pivotal for someone being ranked 1 then I must say that 207-2023 period did not belong to Djokovic, that would be unreasonable.

The number one ranking is very important. But Djokovic isn't the top guy during that period, I am fine with that. It doesn't change 2011-2016, that is his period.

I have already given the longest period from 14-23 a full decade to Djokovic ignoring the rank 1 thing which you mention because in the public's mind whoever is the man to beat must own the era too, same as saying Fed won slams in 09 but he was dethroned. Now remmeber if Fed had dominated Nadal in 10 and 11 then nobody would even talk of 2008 as Nadal's era start point, the fact that 08-13 is when Nadal has a hold over the tour, a weak one that 03-07 or 18-23, 14-15, still, a hold a hold.

You giving it, and me disputing are two different things.

I have just shown you that in no way did Nadal out perform Djokovic during 2011-2013 period, he won less slams, slam H2H was dead even, less weeks at number one, no YEC, less year ending number ones. I'm not sure why this needs to continue.

Actually, I don't think it does from my point. It is clear to me who's era it was. I'll leave it here.

 

[Hitman]

i know, but era and peak performance or prime does not need to overlap with seasons. feds clearly does, noles does not. noles peak is paris14-RG16. peak year W15-RG16. so is his eras also 11-RG16 and W18-23.

If you want to say his level dropped that is fine.

But from a historical view, Djokovic was a multiple time slam winner in both those seasons.

 

[Sampras Serve]

I go back to 2011 to 2013, that is Djkoovic's era, Nadal did NOT outpeforrm him in any metric.

Out of these 3 years, Nadal had a winning h2h over Djokovic in both 2012 and 2013.

So that is 2-1

Point to noted - Nadal beat Nole at his turf (HC slam) but Nole failed to do that on Rafa's turf (Clay Slam).

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic feasted on the remains of a bygone era. One that was greater, more epic, and more colossal. He was like a subterranean rodent that survived the age of the dinosaurs, only to expand its dominion in the absence of creatures far more fierce and powerful than itself.

Incredible.

 

[GoatNo1]

An era started with the max rigged draws? What a shame!

it is even worst. he had no era despite max rigged draws and PED abolition for medical reasons (in 2009 and 2012) for always being injured.

 

[Hitman]

Out of these 3 years, Nadal had a winning h2h over Djokovic in both 2012 and 2013.

So that is 2-1

This is silly, I can say the same for 2011 to 2012

Djokovic H2H 3-1

Point to noted - Nadal beat Nole at his turf (HC slam) but Nole failed to do that on Rafa's turf (Clay Slam).

Yes, Nadal did beat Djokovic there.

But Djokovic ended Nadal reign at Wimbledon, and dethoned him at USO, and made sure Nadal couldn't beat him at AO.

Swings and roundabout.

Then lets not forget, Djokovic ended Nadal's streak at MC, Madrid and Rome.

 

[GoatNo1]

If you want to say his level dropped that is fine.

But from a historical view, Djokovic was a multiple time slam winner in both those seasons.

yes. but that does not contradict what i said.

 

[Hitman]

yes. but that does not contradict what i said.

Yes, but it doesn't change the overall view that only 2017 was a slamless year for Djokovic.

Both sides of it, he was a multi time slam champion, and was world number one in both 2016 and 2018.

 

[Sampras Serve]

This is silly, I can say the same for 2011 to 2012

Djokovic H2H 3-1



Yes, Nadal did beat Djokovic there.

But Djokovic ended Nadal reign at Wimbledon, and dethoned him at USO, and made sure Nadal couldn't beat him at AO.

Swings and roundabout.

Then lets not forget, Djokovic ended Nadal's streak at MC, Madrid and Rome.

This is not good, you are not ready to give an inch away to Nadal.... You have 2014-23 as Djokovic's era, a long decade which is still longer than anyone's but you really want that 2011 in it too and thus you are clubbing it to make it 11-23 and saying Novak's era lasted 13-14 years and Nadal only had 1 year?

It is not at all true, either we come to the conclusion that no player can have eras as others also win quite a bit or we be fair to the rivals of Djokovic as well. If Djokovic won 15 slams in the 2010s decade then it would do you well to remember that Nadal won 13 too.

 

[GoatNo1]

This is silly, I can say the same for 2011 to 2012

Djokovic H2H 3-1



Yes, Nadal did beat Djokovic there.

But Djokovic ended Nadal reign at Wimbledon, and dethoned him at USO, and made sure Nadal couldn't beat him at AO.

Swings and roundabout.

Then lets not forget, Djokovic ended Nadal's streak at MC, Madrid and Rome.

it is fabulous. i mean rafa fans.

he had less slams, no WTF, less masters, less big and overall titles. was not ITF champ (nole was all 3 times). had 9,5 K less points than nole and had an YE average ranking of 2,3 (nole 1,3).

he dominate the tour with 2,3 average ranking! not to bad for #2 record holder!

 

[Hitman]

This is not good, you are not ready to give an inch away to Nadal.... You have 2014-23 as Djokovic's era, a long decade which is still longer than anyone's but you really want that 2011 in it too and thus you are clubbing it to make it 11-23 and saying Novak's era lasted 13-14 years and Nadal only had 1 year?

Oh, I didn't know this was charity.

It is not at all true, either we come to the conclusion that no player can have eras as others also win quite a bit or we be fair to the rivals of Djokovic as well. If Djokovic won 15 slams in the 2010s decade then it would do you well to remember that Nadal won 13 too.

Who won the player of the decade for last decade?

To me, it is very clear, Federer had an era, it ended, Nadal was getting ready to have his era, but Djokovic era began. Nadal was the rival to both Federer and Djokovic.

Now, if you want to say to me, Nadal had it the toughest, THIS is your biggest argument, that is giving the inch to Nadal. He was main rival to Federer and Djokovic during their eras, but he himself didn't have one.

I'm just going to lay down some facts for you.

In 2010, Nadal won MC, Madrid, Rome, RG, W and USO - Who was the man who dethroned him at every single one of the those events?

Without Djokovic, Nadal could have defended a non clay title twice, at Wimbledon and USO.

Because of Djokovic, Nadal is the only one of the big three who only defended one slam successfully. Federer has defended three and Djokovic has defended two, and both did it on multiple surfaces.

Nadal never won the YEC, that is a pretty big thing, considering it is the biggest title outside of the slams. During this era you speak, both Federer and Djokovic denied him.

In 2011, Nadal became the first only player to lose five consecutive finals as the world number one to the world number two, ultimately losing his number one ranking and not regaining for over two years during this period you want to give to him.

It doesn't work for me.

 

[Hitman]

it is fabulous. i mean rafa fans.

he had less slams, no WTF, less masters, less big and overall titles. was not ITF champ (nole was all 3 times). had 9,5 K less points than nole and had an YE average ranking of 2,3 (nole 1,2).

he dominate the tour with 2,3 average ranking! not to bad for #2 record holder!

Correct, it wasn't his era when there was a player who beat him in every metric over those three years.

Nadal was about to start his era after the transition year of 2010, but Djokovic came out of nowhere and put the brakes on it and changed history. Something which still stings some Nadal fans to this day.

 

[GoatNo1]

Oh, I didn't know this was charity.


Who won the player of the decade for last decade?

To me, it is very clear, Federer had an era, it ended, Nadal was getting ready to have his era, but Djokovic era began. Nadal was the rival to both Federer and Djokovic.

Now, if you want to say to me, Nadal had it the toughest, THIS is your biggest argument, that is giving the inch to Nadal. He was main rival to Federer and Djokovic during their eras, but he himself didn't have one.

I'm just going to lay down some facts for you.

In 2010, Nadal won MC, Madrid, Rome, RG, W and USO - Who was the man who dethroned him at every single one of the those events?

Without Djokovic, Nadal could have defended a non clay title twice, at Wimbledon and USO.

Because of Djokovic, Nadal is the only one of the big three who only defended one slam successfully. Federer has defended three and Djokovic has defended two, and both did it on multiple surfaces.

Nadal never won the YEC, that is a pretty big thing, considering it is the biggest title outside of the slams. During this era you speak, both Federer and Djokovic denied him.

In 2011, Nadal became the first only player to lose five consecutive finals as the world number one to the world number two, ultimately losing his number one ranking and not regaining for over two years during this period you want to give to him.

It doesn't work for me.

yes nole was for rafa what establishment was to nole in form of obstacle for defending slams! if not for nole rafa would most probable defend more than 1 slam and if not for establishments decisions nole would most probable defend 3.