Sandbagger or Scraping Off the Rust?

[Carolina Racquet]

I just started playing tennis again (other than hitting with my teenage son) about 12 months ago after a layoff of just over 10 years.

When I joined my club and hit with the head tennis pro, he suggested I should initially self-rate at a 4.0 level. I played 8.5 combo leagues and won with a variety of partners 60% of the time.

Then in the fall I started to hit my stride, found my current racquet/string setup, lost nearly 20 lbs and started to play more singles than doubles. Through hard work, focus and improving my mental game in matches, I have raised the level of my game, more than anyone else at my club of 200+ members.

I joined a 4.0 team this spring and have won all of my matches at #1 singles. I beat two players (both in the third "tie-break" set) who otherwise went undefeated. I didn't play on a 4.5 team (actually wasn't invited to one). I thought I might be DQ'd, now into the playoffs with no DQ in sight.

My question is this... am I a sandbagger? I am certainly better than most 4.0 players now because of my dedication and hard work. I went with the self-rating recommendation of my club pro rather than scheming to take advantage of my situation.

I equate sandbagging to cheating, and that I will not do. I feel a responsibility to my current 4.0 team and fully expect to be bumped up to 4.5 next season.

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on my story. Thanks.

 

[Bartelby]

It makes good sense to start off at a level from which you can develop, and it was also a level at which you were independently judged, so I can't see a problem.

 

[SweetH2O]

Knowing the details of your story, I'd say you are not a sandbagger. Your opponents probably have a different opinion after walking off the court with you.

The system is designed for people who have plateaued in ability. It can't keep up with a rapidly improving or declining player. Don't sweat it and play 4.5 next season whether you get bumped up or not.

 

[J_R_B]

I just started playing tennis again (other than hitting with my teenage son) about 12 months ago after a layoff of just over 10 years.

When I joined my club and hit with the head tennis pro, he suggested I should initially self-rate at a 4.0 level. I played 8.5 combo leagues and won with a variety of partners 60% of the time.

Then in the fall I started to hit my stride, found my current racquet/string setup, lost nearly 20 lbs and started to play more singles than doubles. Through hard work, focus and improving my mental game in matches, I have raised the level of my game, more than anyone else at my club of 200+ members.

I joined a 4.0 team this spring and have won all of my matches at #1 singles. I beat two players (both in the third "tie-break" set) who otherwise went undefeated. I didn't play on a 4.5 team (actually wasn't invited to one). I thought I might be DQ'd, now into the playoffs with no DQ in sight.

My question is this... am I a sandbagger? I am certainly better than most 4.0 players now because of my dedication and hard work. I went with the self-rating recommendation of my club pro rather than scheming to take advantage of my situation.

I equate sandbagging to cheating, and that I will not do. I feel a responsibility to my current 4.0 team and fully expect to be bumped up to 4.5 next season.

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on my story. Thanks.

Sandbaggers are players (and their captains) who do not act in good faith. That does not seem to apply to you - like if you knew going in that you would win every match and tried to hide your true ability to avoid DQ. Finish out your 4.0 season, and play 4.5 next year. No problem.

 

[OrangePower]

You personally don't seem to be a sandbagger. However, you might still be sandbagging...

Sounds like you're playing on a club team. And that team has made it to playoffs. Are there other players on that team that perhaps should be playing at a higher level also? Does the club pro have an interest in seeing the team do well? Did the club pro have an incentive to tell you to rate as 4.0 while suspecting you were really a 4.5?

I don't doubt that your intentions are good, but since we know nothing about your club or your pro, it's hard to say whether your pro's self rating advice was meant to be for your best interest or your club's best interest.

In any case don't sweat it. You've done nothing wrong. People whine about sandbaggers all the time but as long as your opponents are getting a good match and you are not blowing them off the court, they are getting their money's worth playing you

 

[Jim A]

had you hit your stride and chosen to play 4.0 instead of 4.5 you may have been a sandbagger.

congrats for finding your game and good luck at 4.5 if you get the bump

 

[beernutz]

What's your age and previous collegiate experience? Those are the factors to take into account when self-rating.

By the way, I wouldn't think you are a sandbagger just because of the fact that you're concerned enough that you might be thought of one to make this post. IMO true sandbaggers don't care what others think about what they do.

 

[LuckyR]

The difference in a lot of peoples minds between a "sandbagger" and someone who is incorrectly rated, is the mindset and intention of the player. You seem to be the latter. No harm, but consider this: the two guys you beat in the tiebreakers are likely sandbaggers and you are better than them.

They likely didn't change their play quality throughout the year and they are undefeated, ie better than everyone at 4.0, hence sandbagger. You are actually better than them, but improved over the year, so get a pass on the label "sandbagger" this season, as far as I am concerned.

BTW don't wait around for the USTA to bump you up, sign up for a higher league yourself next time.

 

[Cindysphinx]

So long as you play all out and don't throw games to "manage" your rating, I think you're fine.

 

[kylebarendrick]

As I noted in the other thread where you posted this question... it all depends on whether you were honest about your previous experience on the self-rate form. If you answered everything correctly and, as Cindy mentioned, play your matches to the best of your ability then you are OK. If you rationalized that your previous experience shouldn't be held against you because you took 10 years off then you sandbagged.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

What's your age and previous collegiate experience? Those are the factors to take into account when self-rating.

By the way, I wouldn't think you are a sandbagger just because of the fact that you're concerned enough that you might be thought of one to make this post. IMO true sandbaggers don't care what others think about what they do.

beernutz... just turned 49 and i played a couple of years of Div III tennis for a team that won 2 matches during that time. I wasn't recruited to play college tennis anywhere as I was the 5th best player on my HS team.

My game developed after college when I learned how to play an all-court game. Gave it up due to having kids and a couple of relocations for work.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

So long as you play all out and don't throw games to "manage" your rating, I think you're fine.

I never threw matches or games to protect my rating. My biggest fear is that my DQ would hurt the team's standings if my matches counted for losses.

I'm not afraid to play 4.5 in the future. I know if I continue to improve, stay healthy and focused, I'll compete just fine.

 

[kylebarendrick]

Division III experience over the age of 36 can legitimately self-rate at 4.0. It sounds like you did nothing wrong!

 

[Cindysphinx]

I never threw matches or games to protect my rating. My biggest fear is that my DQ would hurt the team's standings if my matches counted for losses.

I'm not afraid to play 4.5 in the future. I know if I continue to improve, stay healthy and focused, I'll compete just fine.

Good, I figured you were playing it straight.

Good luck to you!!

 

[decades]

as a rule you are probably, like all your team mates and opponents, a sand bagger.

 

[MrCLEAN]

Sandbagger, no. But going undefeated at #1 singles for the year, I'd say under-rated at this point. Play up next time and your conscience will be clear.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

Sandbagger, no. But going undefeated at #1 singles for the year, I'd say under-rated at this point. Play up next time and your conscience will be clear.

That's my plan, but I fully expect to get bumped up to 4.5 at the end of the year.

On a related subject, I can't understand how one of my opponents is still a 4.0. Last year he won 80% of his matches. This year, he's 11-1 in 4.0 singles (two leagues). I'm the only one who beat him this year and will probably play him next week if we proceed in the playoffs.

 

[polski]

That's my plan, but I fully expect to get bumped up to 4.5 at the end of the year.

On a related subject, I can't understand how one of my opponents is still a 4.0. Last year he won 80% of his matches. This year, he's 11-1 in 4.0 singles (two leagues). I'm the only one who beat him this year and will probably play him next week if we proceed in the playoffs.

Therre are plenty of those situations out there and only the DNTRP computer can give you an accurate answer. My guess is that his dynamic rating came close last year & he has probably crossed the threshold over 4.0 to get him bumped. I'd assume you are close as well.

I don't think you are sandbagging, but if this is your first NTRP league then you are still at risk for the mid-year DQ if you are still a self rate in the system.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

I am still a self-rate in the system since this is my first year in a non-combo league.

I think I'm out of the woods for a DQ. We're now in playoffs and from what I've seen, most DQs happen 1/2 way or 2/3s through the regular season. If I get DQ'd, they will probably not go back and reverse my matches but disqualify me from playing going forward. How can they? It would change the playoff makeup and such... right?

I'm ok with that if "Hal the Computer" deems it that way. It just points out how precarious it can be to have a self-rating, even if you followed the rating guidelines to the T. All for the better good I guess.

 

[kylebarendrick]

Yes, once you are in the playoffs only the matches at the current "level" (playoff, district, state, section, etc.) are overturned in the event of a DQ.

 

[J_R_B]

Yes, once you are in the playoffs only the matches at the current "level" (playoff, district, state, section, etc.) are overturned in the event of a DQ.

It depends section by section. Some sections run strike reports after every match. If they do that, then a DQ would result in all of the matches at sectionals to date for that player overturned. Some sections only run strike reports after the completion of all of the sectional matches. If this is the case, then no results are overturned, but the player is not allowed to play in any further matches at that rating.

 

[Nellie]

I have seen DQ's at playoffs. A typical scenario is that a Self-rated player hasn't played much during the season and, all of the sudden, shows up to destroy players that have good records (i.e., player at the top end of the rating).

 

[Mike Hodge]

Sandbagger, no. But going undefeated at #1 singles for the year, I'd say under-rated at this point. Play up next time and your conscience will be clear.

I agree with this. Move up next season, IMO, but don't linger any longer than that.

I've seen folks intentionally underrate the first season and they absolutely hammer people until the computer moves them up. However, this usually takes a season or two.

The obvious scenario is when a new player/ex-college (non-tennis) athlete self-rates as a 2.5 and absolutely bludgeons people on the way to 3.0, 3.5. I've seen some 3.0s, who have no business being at that level, but they rated themselves as 2.5 out of the gate, when they should have stepped up and played 3.0 based on their exceptional athletic background. ... Sorry for the rant.

 

[Carolina Racquet]

I agree with this. Move up next season, IMO, but don't linger any longer than that.

I've seen folks intentionally underrate the first season and they absolutely hammer people until the computer moves them up. However, this usually takes a season or two.

The obvious scenario is when a new player/ex-college (non-tennis) athlete self-rates as a 2.5 and absolutely bludgeons people on the way to 3.0, 3.5. I've seen some 3.0s, who have no business being at that level, but they rated themselves as 2.5 out of the gate, when they should have stepped up and played 3.0 based on their exceptional athletic background. ... Sorry for the rant.

I think we've all seen the 'never been rated but experienced player' scenario you described. Funny that some of the 4.5 players who jokingly calls me a sandbagger were 4.0s only a couple of years ago. Have they improved THAT MUCH in two years, or did they eventually get their appropriate rating?

I will play up for sure next season even if I'm still rated 4.0, which is unlikely.

 

[West Coast Ace]

Knowing the details of your story, I'd say you are not a sandbagger.

I tend to agree. But one thing bothers me - OP never told us where he was at his peak of play before the layoff.

The one problem I have is people who come back from injury or layoff and have to start playing Leagues right away. They know they'll regain their form and 'grow out of' the level they selected pretty rapidly. I want to improve, not win little plastic trophies. Playing guys who aren't at your level isn't going to help anyone improve.

OrangePower, as usual, made solid points. For all we know the Club Pro is the villain - wanted a winning team to pump up his image and convinced the OP (and maybe a few others) to play low.