Sascha Zverev and Carlos Ferrero in a war of words over their coaching split.

big ted

Legend
I'm surprised everyone is siding with JCF. if each of what they're saying is true, even if he does come late is it OK for JCF to "disrespect his team? ". zverev said himself if JCF directed whatever abusive comments to himself he'd let it go, but not to his team/family..
 

Shaolin

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm surprised everyone is siding with JCF. if each of what they're saying is true, even if he does come late is it OK for JCF to "disrespect his team? ". zverev said himself if JCF directed whatever abusive comments to himself he'd let it go, but not to his team/family..

Zverev's cocky face and demeanor alone are disrespectful. I cant imagine the arrogance that comes out of his mouth away from the camera.

JCF was probably saying something valid af and AZ's ego couldn't handle it.
 
I want to like the German #1. I want to like the German #1. I want to like the German #1. For a decade, we had a great German #1. Yes, Kohli was never going to win a slam unless he had a Nadal like draw, ;) but he has been and continues to be a class act on and off the court. Any other good young Germans I don't know about? I just can't stand Zverev so far, and this thread comes as no surprise. The guy's got "prima donna" written all over him.
 

reaper

Legend
It's hardly surprising they've split, and not really surprising it's become acrimonious. After winning the Canadian Masters Zverev would have been thinking he'd be a candidate for number 1 by now. Instead he's had 6 months of poor results. When expectations are high but the results are poor there's incentive to look for someone else to blame. Perhaps Zverev needs 1 coach, not a coach plus a team all putting their opinion into the mix.
 

Alba Barragan

Professional
It continues:

Alexander Zverev on the words of his former coach Ferrero: "I have never been late for a training of my entire career, I can be 10 minutes late at a press conference or dinner, that's all #BNPParibasOpen

Source

I've never been late for practice. Don't know what [Ferrero's comment] came from. Relationship was good while it lasted, won't say anything bad against him

Source
 
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MurrayLover

New User
it was destined for ruin from the start. germans think spaniards are lazy and undisciplined, spaniards think germans are dull robots. on the face of it professional, under the skin the subconscious bias. haven't trusted germans myself since 1942, and much less a talented aryan looking boy like sasha. ferrero was probably yelling at sasha during practice "con fuerza, con emocion, con heuvos, con pasion!" and sasha probably said "what is passion? and what they hell are 'huevos'?"
 

vex

Legend
I'm surprised everyone is siding with JCF. if each of what they're saying is true, even if he does come late is it OK for JCF to "disrespect his team? ". zverev said himself if JCF directed whatever abusive comments to himself he'd let it go, but not to his team/family..
Solid point. Honestly they were both probably big ego a-holes and this is just the inevitable divorce
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
I want to like the German #1. I want to like the German #1. I want to like the German #1. For a decade, we had a great German #1. Yes, Kohli was never going to win a slam unless he had a Nadal like draw, ;) but he has been and continues to be a class act on and off the court. Any other good young Germans I don't know about? I just can't stand Zverev so far, and this thread comes as no surprise. The guy's got "prima donna" written all over him.

I like Kohli too but he's not winning a US Open 2017 with Nadal's draw. :p:D
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Well this isn't good.

Sascha said this in a press conference yesterday:

"There was a moment where he (Carlos Ferrero) was very disrespectful towards everybody in my team. That's why I had to stop that relationship."

https://twitter.com/PrinceSascha123/status/969441572436590593

Ferrero responded to Zverev by publicly saying that Sascha kept arriving late to his practice sessions. ‘I tried to teach him some discipline and humility.

https://twitter.com/josemorgado/status/969773565569634304

Got this from an article translation:

"What I asked him from the first day is respect for the team, among other things I asked him to be a little more punctual, telling him that it was not right that he would arrive 20 or 30 minutes late to training day after day. A little more discipline would be very good to improve tenistically, he explains.

Ferrero has a good memory of his beginnings with Zverev: "The first months he was more disciplined and respectful, but when he got confidence he no longer respected the guidelines that I marked as at the beginning".

The Spanish, however, is left with the good of the experience that meant for him to train one of the great promises of world tennis."I am left with the experience of having helped him win his first two Masters: in Rome I advised him by telephone, and in Canada, in person, with the title of Washington, for me it was a great joy. Little, I have said in the press that I am a great worker, which is what I was taught: work, discipline, humility and respect for others. "

http://www.marca.com/tenis/2018/03/02/5a99a536268e3e817b8b4680.html
Ferrero has lost it and a complete failure. Wow. This was not the reason for any failure in their partnership and just a smoke screen of incompetence. The lack of results speaks loudly.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Their stories are almost compatible if you just modify one thing: Zverev sez Ferrero said something disrespectful to the whole team. That makes it sound like he dissed the team. But most likely what he did was berate Z in front of the team, and Z couldn't handle it. That's what I suspect happened.
Sound about right and then add in 0.0 results. Hopefully Zed's career recovers from this poor coaching match.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
You know, I've noticed how lots of people on here are always making excusing for guys like Zverev, Kyrgios etc. on the grounds of their youth. "He's only young, he'll grow out of it" blah blah blah. Then, all of a sudden, they're no longer so young anymore but still acting like entitled jerks!

Fact of the matter is that many of the former top guys were disciplined hard workers right from the get go despite their youth and it soon paid off in terms of Slams and rankings. You start as you mean to go on. Once an entitled jerk always an entitled jerk IMO!
This has to be one of the stupidest posts of all time. Zverev is an extremely hard worker. Say this about Kyrgios if you must, but don't put this on Zverev; a very hard worker.o_O
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Ferrero has lost it and a complete failure. Wow. This was not the reason for any failure in their partnership and just a smoke screen of incompetence. The lack of results speaks loudly.
There’s only so much blame you can put on a coach. He’s not the one out on court, Zverev is. Sascha copped a bagel at the Australian Open. That’s not Carlos Ferrero’s fault, that’s Zverev’s.

Perhaps the one who went from winning Masters titles with that coach to barely winning matches with the coach is the one to blame. Perhaps Zverev didn’t train hard enough and that’s why he’s yet to make a slam QF cause he can’t handle the strength you need for lots of B05.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
I'm surprised everyone is siding with JCF. if each of what they're saying is true, even if he does come late is it OK for JCF to "disrespect his team? ". zverev said himself if JCF directed whatever abusive comments to himself he'd let it go, but not to his team/family..
JCF is incompetent. Takes a great talent and has him in a death spiral within 6 months. Its pretty clear that he overworked and scheduled Zverev if anything. The moron's answer is that Zverev should have worked harder and beat himself up more.:rolleyes: Zverev is physically damaged goods thanks to JCF's time with him. The guy has completely lost his serve under JCF and has really dropped on 2nd serve points won.

JCF will be lucky to have a successful coaching stint with this start.o_O Good riddance.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
There’s only so much blame you can put on a coach. He’s not the one out on court, Zverev is. Sascha copped a bagel at the Australian Open. That’s not Carlos Ferrero’s fault, that’s Zverev’s.

Perhaps the one who went from winning Masters titles with that coach to barely winning matches with the coach is the one to blame. Perhaps Zverev didn’t train hard enough and that’s why he’s yet to make a slam QF cause he can’t handle the strength you need for lots of B05.
Nope. He's had Jez Green working with for four years now.:rolleyes: JCF blew it plain and simple. You'd guys be screaming if Fraud had a coach who brought him down so much.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Nope. He's had Jez Green working with for four years now.:rolleyes: JCF blew it plain and simple. You'd guys be screaming if Fraud had a coach who brought him down so much.
Are you for real?
Carlos Ferrero joined Zverev in July. What happened almost straight away? Zverev won an ATP500 and then a Masters title back to back. You need to stop defending Zverev and see his flaws.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Maybe so but isn't highly relevant to the point being made here about Zverev. Fed had won a five setter over Sampras long before he was as old as Zverev is now. Now if we put that together with JCF claiming that Zverev routinely turned up late for practice, it could mean Zverev is not working hard enough to address his stamina issues. There's on the one hand the Kyrgios type of brat who just says he's happy where he's at and on the other hand is Zverev who talks a big talk but isn't ready to walk it yet. Though...the biggest hindrance for his growth is more technical than any of these things. His serve isn't as good as it should be for his height and he also seems to struggle to attack with his forehand. He was at times hitting backhands to Delpo's forehand, recipe for disaster.
tenor.gif
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Are you for real?
Carlos Ferrero joined Zverev in July. What happened almost straight away? Zverev won an ATP500 and then a Masters title back to back. You need to stop defending Zverev and see his flaws.
You have to be really dense to give JCF much credit when he'd hardly worked with Zverev.:rolleyes: Zverev has derailed big time and JCF gets full credit.
 

reaper

Legend
Are you for real?
Carlos Ferrero joined Zverev in July. What happened almost straight away? Zverev won an ATP500 and then a Masters title back to back. You need to stop defending Zverev and see his flaws.

Maybe Zverev thinks those wins came too soon for Ferrero to have had any influence, while the last 6 months of humiliation have come courtesy of the Ferrero polish.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
JCF is incompetent. Takes a great talent and has him in a death spiral within 6 months. Its pretty clear that he overworked and scheduled Zverev if anything. The moron's answer is that Zverev should have worked harder and beat himself up more.:rolleyes: Zverev is physically damaged goods thanks to JCF's time with him. The guy has completely lost his serve under JCF and has really dropped on 2nd serve points won.

JCF will be lucky to have a successful coaching stint with this start.o_O Good riddance.
JCF is incompetent despite spending 8 weeks at No. 1, a Roland Garros trophy and 15 other titles to his name. :rolleyes:

He knows what it takes to get to the top. Calling him incompetent is pretty daft.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
I want to like the German #1. I want to like the German #1. I want to like the German #1. For a decade, we had a great German #1. Yes, Kohli was never going to win a slam unless he had a Nadal like draw, ;) but he has been and continues to be a class act on and off the court. Any other good young Germans I don't know about? I just can't stand Zverev so far, and this thread comes as no surprise. The guy's got "prima donna" written all over him.
Philipp is an extremely hard worker and seems to have gotten the most out of his game he possibly could. Tommy Haas wasn't too bad either ya know.

No other young Germans I know about unfortunately..
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Maybe Zverev thinks those wins came too soon for Ferrero to have had any influence, while the last 6 months of humiliation have come courtesy of the Ferrero polish.
Let's have a look and see how Zverev goes in Indian Wells and Miami. If he doesn't win the titles or make SF/Finals then he's the issue. If he can't make a slam SF (hasn't even made a slam QF) at the French Open then he really is the failure and not JCF. Top 5 in the world should be easily doing those things.

If he does do well, i'll eat crow. I have a suspicion he won't though.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
JCF is incompetent despite spending 8 weeks at No. 1, a Roland Garros trophy and 15 other titles to his name. :rolleyes:

He knows what it takes to get to the top. Calling him incompetent is pretty daft.
You’re right; JCF obviously ready to move up to Coaching Fedal.:D
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
So JCF gets no credit for Zverevs success but gets all the blame for Zverevs failure? Hahahah you're unreal.
Zverev won Rome without JCF. He was basically a lucky charm those first two weeks. Coaching is all about training and development. Zverev is cratering after 8 months with JCF. This is a screw up of monumental proportions and JCF at the helm. I give him full credit for reducing his charge from a top 5 player to a top 20 caliber one. At this stage of his career Zed should be improving not in decline. Thanks JCF.
 
Let's have a look and see how Zverev goes in Indian Wells and Miami. If he doesn't win the titles or make SF/Finals then he's the issue. If he can't make a slam SF (hasn't even made a slam QF) at the French Open then he really is the failure and not JCF. Top 5 in the world should be easily doing those things.

If he does do well, i'll eat crow. I have a suspicion he won't though.

You have a suspicion that the BS that you spout will not happen and that would prove you "right"?

giphy.gif


:cool:
 

Alba Barragan

Professional
Are you for real?
Carlos Ferrero joined Zverev in July. What happened almost straight away? Zverev won an ATP500 and then a Masters title back to back. You need to stop defending Zverev and see his flaws.

So JCF gets no credit for Zverevs success but gets all the blame for Zverevs failure? Hahahah you're unreal.

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong in the Z vs JCF little feud, you can't really give much credit to JCF for the title in Washington when he was barely part of Z's team at that point, wasn't there in person (if I recall correctly), and just advised via phone calls. As you have said, there’s only so much blame you can put on a coach, and this also applies to the positive impact he may have had in such a short period of time. I do give him credit for Montreal, though.

The truth is Zverev was having not brilliant, but at least pretty good results the first half of 2017 (wins in Montpellier, Munich, Rome, finals in Halle), then JCF arrived, Z peaked and then completely crashed. Apart from the initial weeks, result-wise, it hasn't been the most productive partnership. It makes sense they, or at least Z, wanted to part ways. This doesn't necessarily mean JCF is a bad coach and/or Zverev is a bad person/athlete, both of them have proved they know and respect the sport, and have what it takes to win titles (had in the case of JCF, and Z to a lesser level, but still).

Other players have split with their coaches with the same or even worse kind of comments being exchanged, yet people in this forum have barely given them attention or tried to find who is the good and the bad guy in the situation. When Z is involved though, most users are eager to crucify him :rolleyes: even though everything points out he isn't the only one to blame for the failed partnership.
 
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Actually there are reports that JCF was already acting as a coaching consultant when Zverev won Rome, and that he took coaching advice from JCF via phone calls during that time. Then the arrangement was formalised after Zverev failed to do anything of note at RG and Wimbledon.
 
Zverev won Rome without JCF. He was basically a lucky charm those first two weeks. Coaching is all about training and development. Zverev is cratering after 8 months with JCF. This is a screw up of monumental proportions and JCF at the helm. I give him full credit for reducing his charge from a top 5 player to a top 20 caliber one. At this stage of his career Zed should be improving not in decline. Thanks JCF.

There are reports that JCF was already acting as a coaching consultant when Zverev won Rome, and that he took coaching advice from JCF via phone calls during that time. Then the arrangement was formalised after Zverev failed to do anything of note at RG and Wimbledon.
 

Alba Barragan

Professional
There are reports that JCF was already acting as a coaching consultant when Zverev won Rome, and that he took coaching advice from JCF via phone calls during that time. Then the arrangement was formalised after Zverev failed to do anything of note at RG and Wimbledon.

Not quite. Zverev started to talk with JCF during Madrid (earliest reports) but he was only 'approaching him', to get to know him better (at least that's how they hinted it was). They kept texting each other since then, but Z wasn't being advised or coached by JCF at the time, actually, he didn't even tell his own team about being in contact with JCF (this is according his own words) so it was extremely casual. They did formalize things after Wimby, and first trained together at the end of July.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
The most prominent student that ever came from the JCF's academy is Pablo Carreno Busta.

:cool:
Well that bodes well for the academy then because PCB appears to be a great overachiever - and overachievement is generally the result of insane diligence and persistence, not raw talent.

(assuming the academy hasn't been in business for decades that is)
 
Well that bodes well for the academy then because PCB appears to be a great overachiever - and overachievement is generally the result of insane diligence and persistence, not raw talent.

(assuming the academy hasn't been in business for decades that is)

Well, I was mostly thinking about what a striking difference between the playing style of the owner of the academy and the student (PCB) there is, and if that is their academy philosophy how it would work with Zverev's style (talents).

Maybe that is the real problem here?

Diligence and persistence are fine, but maybe Zverev thinks that he has been steered towards the wrong set of values as far as his current game is concerned.

I certainly don't think that coming late to training (if that is true at all) is enough to break an otherwise working agreement.

:cool:
 

reaper

Legend
Well, I was mostly thinking about what a striking difference between the playing style of the owner of the academy and the student (PCB) there is, and if that is their academy philosophy how it would work with Zverev's style (talents).

Maybe that is the real problem here?

Diligence and persistence are fine, but maybe Zverev thinks that he has been steered towards the wrong set of values as far as his current game is concerned.

I certainly don't think that coming late to training (if that is true at all) is enough to break an otherwise working agreement.

:cool:

Zverev has adopted a very diligent playing style. Always keeping the ball in play when he's on the offensive rather than cranking a winner. It may be that Ferrero was trying to impose a more defensive playing style than what is suitable for Zverev.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Not quite. Zverev started to talk with JCF during Madrid (earliest reports) but he was only 'approaching him', to get to know him better (at least that's how they hinted it was). They kept texting each other since then, but Z wasn't being advised or coached by JCF at the time, actually, he didn't even tell his own team about being in contact with JCF (this is according his own words) so it was extremely casual. They did formalize things after Wimby, and first trained together at the end of July.
JCF was in the box for Citi Open in July and announced as coach right about then.
 
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