This weekend i saw some great tennis at the Southern section Little Mo tennis tournament.I saw 8,9,and 10 year old kids look great on full sized courts with full sized rackets and regulation balls.NO QUICKSTART MESS!!!It really got me mad all over again that the U.S.T.A did away with the 10 and under division.SHAME ON YOU U.S.T.A!!!!!!!!!These kids can play!!!!!
Saw some great tennis at Southern Little Mo
- Thread starter ga tennis
- Start date
Well FYI - Several SoFla Tennis Academy Big wigs are pressing the USTA to come up with something for the 10s.
Yes the Southern Sectional winner is good my daughter lost to her 6-2,6-4. I am waiting for the re-match
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
put a sock on it will you, do we need another QS thread and another QS debate, gezze,
Well FYI - Several SoFla Tennis Academy Big wigs are pressing the USTA to come up with something for the 10s.
Yes the Southern Sectional winner is good my daughter lost to her 6-2,6-4. I am waiting for the re-match
My daughter won it this year.It was the first time she has ever really played hard and competed.The light is starting to come on FINALLY!
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
Its not a debate.You do u and let me do me
no need to diss the USTA and say SHAME on you USTA for implementing QS. When you do it is a debate, waiting for your edit like the other thread ..........
you could have started the thread and said my daughter won little mo etc... congratulation, you should be happy instead you are MAD at the USTA
get a grip and get over it will you, it is not the end of the world. You should be celebrating the win of your daughter. BTW I thought she is not going to compete until later following TCF advice , but you could not resist could you......
Last edited:
no need to diss the USTA and say SHAME on you USTA for implementing QS. When you do it is a debate, waiting for your edit like the other thread ..........
you could have started the thread and said my daughter won little mo etc... congratulation, you should be happy instead you are MAD at the USTA
Only 3 tournaments this year.
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
I see you did not edit your post, others did not want to start a flame war and took the high road you did not....... you would take every opportunity to attack the USTA and QS even when you should be celebrating the win of your daughter, too bad.
Anyway, down from tournaments every weekend to once a month,
by the time the year is over she would have played in a dozen,nice to see you are following and have given in
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5570628&postcount=93
now TCF only has to wipe those tears.........
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5570527&postcount=88
had you followed TCF recommendation to a T I guess you would not have known how "hard she really competed" nor would have found out that the "light had finally started to come", oh well.....
Last edited:
THANKS!!!!!!!!!
Let me re edit my post.TheU.S.T.A areIDIOTS for mandating quick start for all 10 and unders.Ask any parent that has a child that age that can play ball.I see you did not edit your post, others did not want to start a flame war and took the high road you did not....... you would take every opportunity to attack the USTA and QS even when you should be celebrating the win of your daughter, too bad.
Anyway, down from tournaments every weekend to once a month,
nice to see you are following
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5570628&postcount=93
now TCF only has to wipe those tears.........
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5570527&postcount=88
had you followed TCF recommendation to a T I guess you would not have known how "hard she really competed" nor would have found out that the "light had finally started to come", oh well.....
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
Well put. I'm all for marketing it. But mandating it is a little psycho.
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
time will heal anything:idea:
you sound like a boring broken record, you already had a thread which basically says the same thing, why add another thread. how many threads are you going to create?
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=323959
oh wait this might actually help her in the long run?
This thread which you created which was debated to death was not enough for you? over 15,000K views and almost 400 replies, you had to create another thread? never seen anyone so bitter, we got the point
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=343631
Last edited:
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
Pro Tour, to be fair, your side 'won'. There is now Quickstart all over, so your side of the debate won.
The other side is highly emotional because we 'lost'. For generations FL and GA has had what many consider a successful system of regulation 10s. Many D-1 scholarships have been earned by kids going through the system.
And to also be fair, apparently there was no research done to show us that the system works. For all we know our kids and students will fall behind the Spanish kids even further whose governing body does not mandate it for top scholarships. So emotions are quite raw down here on this topic.
So I would suggest letting our losing side vent. Thats all this is, we have no other outlet, the USTA has mandated what it has mandated. So maybe just let these threads be and let the affected parties blow off a little steam. It won't change your 'victory'.
The other side is highly emotional because we 'lost'. For generations FL and GA has had what many consider a successful system of regulation 10s. Many D-1 scholarships have been earned by kids going through the system.
And to also be fair, apparently there was no research done to show us that the system works. For all we know our kids and students will fall behind the Spanish kids even further whose governing body does not mandate it for top scholarships. So emotions are quite raw down here on this topic.
So I would suggest letting our losing side vent. Thats all this is, we have no other outlet, the USTA has mandated what it has mandated. So maybe just let these threads be and let the affected parties blow off a little steam. It won't change your 'victory'.
Last edited:
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
Yes.
Now...
Is there a Georgia or a Florida...or a national stat on this? How many kids play high level 10 and under tennis, who go on to solid div 1 tennis?
Or do most of the high-ranked 10s and 12s fade away by 16s and 18s?
Basically, I believe a kid ought to treat the 10s and 12s as practice...developing time, building a great foundation. Then 14s as a competitive bridge to the high level of all-court play in the national level of 16s, 18s and college. When I coached professionally (and even now, as I help with some kids...and raise my own kids), I always wanted kids to peak later rather than in the young age groups.
Though I have some experience with tour players, and I know Roddick is literally the poster child for the Little Mo.....I'm really just asking those of you in this thread your opinions on successful 8s, 9s and 10s players going on to div 1 tennis.
I am referring not only to 'burnout', but also stylistic keys (like learning that pushing wins early, but not as much later....like having them play a more mature game even though it might not be as successful as a defensive game early on).
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
I agree with you 100% on the 10s and 12s. What I am saying is that on this issue people in GA and FL are still a little upset so they will blow off steam on this junior forum for a while.
I have little use for little Mo and 10s and 12s being taken seriously, but many others down here do.
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
This is not about winning or losing it is about flexing muscle, apparently these 77 kids do not play ball like the kids down south,:evil: I have to ask their parents and see what they think:-| I will be at the event to pick a bone with the competitive development directors. Don't think they will get away with your concerns.
http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/applicants.aspx?M=A&T=108333
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
I guess I don't understand the need to keep going on this from your side. The way you wanted it is the way it will be from now on. The Quickstart, the 10s tournaments.
Some parents down here are just upset. His initial post did not mention any other posters, he was just opening his window and shouting a little.
Melanie Oudin Robby Genepri Brian Vahaly Bobby Reynolds all Georgia players all have been ranked top 70 in the world all were playing regulation in the 10s no quick start.All of these players were great in the10s.I forgot aboutDonald Young he was amazing at 10.I would say we knew what we weredoin in GA.
Just an FYI... got the new USTA and Tennis magazines today and the USTA presidents message was about 10 and Under Tennis. NOT ONCE did he mention "building champions" or talk about high level development. It was all about getting involved, having fun, being active and staying healthy. Same with the QST coverage in Tennis magazine this month - all about the ease of entry to tennis for kids.
This is a BIG messaging change from just a few months ago. No "building champions", no famous coach and player endorsements, no smoke and mirrors, but just a clear message of more participation.
This, IMO, is the right message and the right aim for QST. As I've always stated, the only downside is that it's mandated for ALL 10U.
Mandate = good for some
Choice = good for all
This is a BIG messaging change from just a few months ago. No "building champions", no famous coach and player endorsements, no smoke and mirrors, but just a clear message of more participation.
This, IMO, is the right message and the right aim for QST. As I've always stated, the only downside is that it's mandated for ALL 10U.
Mandate = good for some
Choice = good for all
QS tennis is awful.
I saw 5 years girl was playing great game on QS. It was her size. Kids 7 and up just do not fit on the same little court. It just so wrong you have to see it. 8 and up should stay away from Quick Start and do not try it ever. At 9 y.o. it is simply impossible to take the QS seriously.
The quick start has to be considered as not a tennis at all, it is just a different sport.
Maybe the best solution is to run separate league called QS, totally unrelated to tennis.
I saw 5 years girl was playing great game on QS. It was her size. Kids 7 and up just do not fit on the same little court. It just so wrong you have to see it. 8 and up should stay away from Quick Start and do not try it ever. At 9 y.o. it is simply impossible to take the QS seriously.
The quick start has to be considered as not a tennis at all, it is just a different sport.
Maybe the best solution is to run separate league called QS, totally unrelated to tennis.
Last edited:
I totally disagree.
Being able to control the ball on a smaller court and still hit with pace will be a terrific advantage for those young players.
I saw a very good 10 year old last weekend who has won several 12 and under tournaments but her mom said that she was completely confused when she played QS in her age bracket and she couldnt keep the ball in play.
She couldn't keep the ball in play because she isn't really controlling the ball yet but that weakness is not exposed so much on a larger court...yet.
Exactly - who cares she could not play QS(she probably cannot play hockey as well) If she won several USTA open division up tours(which is probably not the case), it is much more important.
That is what I said. QST is not for tennis players, it is not tennis at all. 8 years old kids do not fit on QS court, they are too huge for it. Using it for early starters like 5 years old is OK. There is nothing to dispute about, go and check how kids are playing.
Talking about 10U - Take for example 9 years old boys - close your eyes and picture the game. They feel very comfortable on full court with full size racquets.
I saw QST for 8U. It is ugly, it is wrong. What you can learn on court with such dimensions I do not know.
Let's mix all together racquets ball, badminton, squash, tennis and QST. Oh, yes beach tennis, paddle tennis and blah blah blah...
The current outcome from QST(IMHO) - people are avoiding USTA 8U, 10U and prefer local tours with full size instead.
Last edited:
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
oooops MelanieOudin promoting QS at the U8 GA championships, notice how she is using a large frame, is she referring to something :shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pviHu8XucoA
MelanieOudin promoting QS at the U8 GA championships, notice how she is using a large frame, is she referring to something :shock:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pviHu8XucoA
oooops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pviHu8XucoA
Do you really think Melanie didnt play on a full sized courtwith regulation balls at 10???? Do you really think any top college player or any pro didnt play regulation tennis at 10???
QS is closer to "real tennis" when the player is a fraction of the size of a real tennis player.
I bet any good tennis player could keep the ball in play on a quickstart court because they know how to control the ball.
I bet if the little girl who won the 12's that I met this weekend could learn how to control the ball on a smaller court, it would only make her a better player on a full-sized court.
Last edited:
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
Your last line is the crux of the debate. No one knows which system developes better players. Some coaches say reaction times, court coverage, hustle, power should be taught first. Quickstart people say kids need to play slow and controlled.
Neither side should claim it knows for sure. The bottom line is that some amazing players have been developed using regulation courts. The Spanish Federation does not mandate it and they have quite a track record of success.
So we don't know if the little girl you met who won the 12s would be a better player if she used Quickstart. Maybe her strengths are she learned to bust it chasing after balls on a full court, or that she developed amazing reactions by having regulation balls fired at her, or maybe she was a high energy kid who needed to run and Quickstart would have bored her into quitting tennis.
Or maybe Quickstart would have made her even better. Thats the entire debate...because no one has any idea for sure.
Last edited:
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
Truth.
Yes, when I reflect on this with some of the college and Challenger guys I encounter (and their coaches), smeo say they'd probably have better court sense and ball-feel, and be more natural on the attack had they started playing more small ball.
Other say it's just too removed from the real thing to be of value.
I feel these things:
QS is brilliant for the beginning kids...
foams and reds for 5s and 6s.
As they progress....to push development rather than reaction time, Oranges and 60 ft ct for 6-7 or maybe even 8 yr olds who are starting to compete well.
Full court with Greens or just good ol' fashioned dead balls for the 8 to 10, pre-tournament kids.
I think there is value in having them adjust, too.
Clearly, the most talented and best coached kids will excel with the yellow on a full ct. But will they develop the feel and the court sense from the court or from the coaching and the competition? Or not at all?
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
you are not allowed to ask questions unless you answer mine,
besides you are dysfunctional (I am no better either) , I can not keep up with all your flip flops.
First you were for U10 regulation tournaments, and have been participating in regulation tournaments every weekend for two years since age 7-8 which you found out to be cruel
. Then you found TCF approach on TW not too long ago and would not participate in tournaments until age 12. Now you are for and want participate in U10 regulation tournaments if money were not an issue and if it were brought back. Can we have a little more consistency with your Jr tennis development approach. before I answer your silly question.
Last edited:
I do flip flop about her playing tournaments right now i will admit it.The main reason is her having to play the 12s against bigger and much more mature girls.I just have a problem with mandating all 10 and under tournaments to quickstart.Put yourself in my shoes pro tour what would you do with your infinite wisdom?????If you say quickstart for a good 9 year old then i will know you are clueless...you are not allowed to ask questions unless you answer mine,
besides you are dysfunctional (I am no better either) , I can not keep up with all your flip flops.
First you were for U10 regulation tournaments, and have been participating in regulation tournaments every weekend for two years since age 7-8 which you found out to be cruel
I think you misunderstood my point.
What I mean is that if this 10 year old girl (who can obviously win on a full-sized court now) could ALSO learn to control the ball on a small court...she would be an even better player than she is now
...because she is obviously lacking some skills if she cannot keep the ball in play on a small court.
Last edited:
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
Green ball for just turning 9 year old if they are small and not elite, but advanced for at least six months. If she is big, quick/athletic and more than 9.5 then go U12 and hope for the best. If she just won Little Mo 9? 10? again depending when she was born, then she is elite and you should not worry about U10 regulation anymore.
You were #1 in GA and of course your daughter is going to have first hand knowledge/experience with regards to competition. Just remember 99.9% of the country is not privy to this tennis knowledge.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
Now I understand what you meant. We teach them to use touch, spins, slices, drop shots, and control the balls on full size courts.
I can take my students and downsize them with low compression balls and they adjust very quickly. I do it with my kid all the time when we use orange balls to play in the drive way. A 10 year old girl who is winning on a full size should be able to master Quickstart within a very short time.
But it depends how she was coached. If she was learning to attack balls, take them on the rise, etc. then its not fair to expect her to adjust to Quickstart that quickly since her muscle memory is set for power. And it depends how she was winning, kids can win with bad strokes at that age. There are plenty of bad strokes in Quickstart too.
But if she was being taught power first, then control coming later, that method has worked to develop excellent players. To be fair, she won't have to win on Quickstart courts in another year anyway.
Last edited:
It's a nonsanctioned tournament so they don't have to follow the rules of the USTA.
It's not an ITF tournament.
100% agree
TCF this is the approach they have used with my daughter. Now they are also concentrate on working at the net using angles deep and short. Not just plain vanilla volleys and drop shots.
We just Withdrew from the G10s Florida State closed. Figured it was a waste of time and money, and quite frankly since the USTA has quit on 10s why should I participate. Now I feel dumb for chasing points the last few months (to get in), but the journey was fun. Talked to director and considered entering 12s but once again what for? Best case win 1 MD or 1 Consolation match. Worst case meet a girl about to age up (14s) and get smashed
I feel you can learn more from a good loss at this age but not in this case. Just makes no sense. If a kid in the 10s had been playing 12s already that is different.
I am still curious enough to attend one of those 10s QS Festivals. Burning question is could my 8yo having never played 60' QS adapt to it? She covers the court pretty dam well right now, my guess is she would get lazy since she does that now.
I don't keep stats but maybe 2 balls a match she doesn't get to. That said if she can just reach out for a ball and not move believe me she will, and 60' and slower moving, lower bouncing ball would just ENABLE her to be lazy.
Last edited:
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
TCF this is the approach they have used with my daughter. Now they are also concentrate on working at the net using angles deep and short. Not just plain vanilla volleys and drop shots.
We just Withdrew from the G10s Florida State closed. Figured it was a waste of time and money, and quite frankly since the USTA has quit on 10s why should I participate. Now I feel dumb for chasing points the last few months (to get in), but the journey was fun. Talked to director and considered entering 12s but once again what for? Best case win 1 MD or 1 Consolation match. Worst case meet a girl about to age up (14s) and get smashed
I feel you can learn more from a good loss at this age but not in this case. Just makes no sense. If a kid in the 10s had been playing 12s already that is different.
I am still curious enough to attend one of those 10s QS Festivals. Burning question is could my 8yo having never played 60' QS adapt to it? She covers the court pretty dam well right now, my guess is she would get lazy since she does that now. If she can just reach out for a ball and not move believe me she will, and 60' and slower moving, lower bouncing ball would just ENABLE her to be lazy.
Thats the huge question for me. The QS format lets kids do everything with the ball and cover small areas. Will they transition to busting it on a full court in 90 degree heat when they get older?
I hear you on the tournaments. The problem is that in FL. the kids explode in ability from 10-13. So trying to play up is not for most 10s.
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
Go to one. Cannot hurt. You will find a lot of beginners, but when your child will play a good player, it turns out to be an interesting experiment. Do they construct points or do they just outsteady eachother? Do they have trouble adjusting to the different ball or do they end up feeling it pretty well?
I have seen/been a part of some 36, some 60 and of course a lot of full court tennis, most recently with kids aged 6 - 10 (including my own kids).
I see it as a part of their development. Just another piece in the puzzle.
Best,
slice
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
TCF this is the approach they have used with my daughter. Now they are also concentrate on working at the net using angles deep and short. Not just plain vanilla volleys and drop shots.
We just Withdrew from the G10s Florida State closed. Figured it was a waste of time and money, and quite frankly since the USTA has quit on 10s why should I participate. Now I feel dumb for chasing points the last few months (to get in), but the journey was fun. Talked to director and considered entering 12s but once again what for? Best case win 1 MD or 1 Consolation match. Worst case meet a girl about to age up (14s) and get smashed
I feel you can learn more from a good loss at this age but not in this case. Just makes no sense. If a kid in the 10s had been playing 12s already that is different.
I am still curious enough to attend one of those 10s QS Festivals. Burning question is could my 8yo having never played 60' QS adapt to it? She covers the court pretty dam well right now, my guess is she would get lazy since she does that now.
I don't keep stats but maybe 2 balls a match she doesn't get to. That said if she can just reach out for a ball and not move believe me she will, and 60' and slower moving, lower bouncing ball would just ENABLE her to be lazy.
You're in a tough situation with the state closed. I'm a huge advocate of kids playing in the Florida State Closed event. If it's in the budget, it's a great event for tennis, friendships, family time, etc... My kid has often played up in this event and has been taken apart a few times over the years, but I believe it's about the taking part and not the taking apart. Twenty years from now, these kids wont be talking about who they beat in the tournament, but they'll remember going out for pizza with three other families or going to the arcade with their friends during the 6 hour rain delay. Great, great memories. My only beef about this event is they only play 1 match a day. The expenses can mount quickly if your kid wins a few main draw matches .
We've gone back and forth. Bottom line is the lack of USTA support for kids caught in the gap between QS and 12s. I know four other kids and parents not going. My conscious just has a problem supporting the event. We also have several kids that were goin to start tournaments after school let out who aren't going to. So I guess the drop off in participation is acceptable for USTA.
Now with travel soccer we get that good fun away from home and school with her soccer friends.
She asked last week and I told her the 10s we're goin away, she asked why, I told her we will sit down and she can hand write USTA as a dues paying member. She trains with 12s and expresses no fear in playing them, i just told her we got plenty of time! You'll get your chance.
They could care less.What paying members were asked??My whole family are members and no one asked us S#@*!!!!!!
We have been talking and are once again considering attending the State Closed. As you said the event, and what surrounds it may be just as important to her development considering we will play very few Tournaments over the next 12-18 Months. We were going to Disney anyway and inspite:evil: of the USTA if we can get a positive experience we'll take it.
Similar threads
