say goodbye to the tyranny of ab work!

[heycal]

If you are like I used to be, and almost everyone else who works out regularly, you spend a fair amount of time doing ab work of some kind: crunches, leg lifts, ab machine, etc. I myself used to spend a good 30 minutes total a week on such exercises, and I'm sure many out there spend more time than that.

But in an effort to improve my back pain, and based on things I've read here at TT and elsewhere and talking to the fittest guy I know in real life, I decided to dramatically cut back on the amount of ab work I do about a year ago. I now do maybe 8 total minutes of ab work a week. Just a couple of minutes of simple bracing type exercises.

Did it help my back pain? Not really. Did I lose stomach muscles/definition? Not at all. The abs look exactly the same. A bit of a six back, same as before. You would not be able to tell the "before" from the "after" picture.

As I read somewhere: "abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym", and I really believe its true. it's mostly about low body fat, and also undoubtedly genetic to a huge degree. So if you're tired of doing ab work, try my approach -- or that of my super fit friend, who has never done any ab work at all, but simply braces his stomach muscles while doing his other lifting and has washboard abs -- and say goodbye to the tyranny of ab workouts. You can thank me later!

 

[Andyroddickfan]

This is the stupidest thread, so your whole goal was to help your back pain? Not only did you NOT do that but you also don't have a 6 pack because you still have high bf% because your diet isn't great. So why would anyone do what you recommended when it didn't do anything for you? Unless your friend is doing squats or deads variations who cares (those exercises will help your core a ton). Also if he thinks he will squat big or dead big without any good supplemental core exercises he is wrong.

All in all I didn't get the point of this? Why not just get to 8% bf and not do any core exercises?

 

[Kevin T]

I agree, Heycal. I ruptured my l4-l5 twice a few years back and on the advice of a great PT, stopped doing anything but planks. Knock on wood, I haven't had my back flare up in close to 3 years.

As to core work and going big on the Olympic lifts, I played D1 football and we never did a single ab-specific exercise. Not a single one. Ab work came from compound movements. I would dare say there was some pretty heavy weight being moved around.

 

[heycal]

This is the stupidest thread, so your whole goal was to help your back pain? Not only did you NOT do that but you also don't have a 6 pack because you still have high bf% because your diet isn't great.

You smoking crack, kid? Did you actually even read what I wrote? Where did you get the idea that A) my diet isn't great, and B) I don't have a six pack?

Not only did I never mention my diet -- which is relatively good -- I said I do have something of a six pack, same as before.

The point of the thread was not "how to cure back pain", but how to maintain a six pack without doing a bunch of ab work. But if you're too busy smoking crack, you might have missed all that...

As to core work and going big on the Olympic lifts, I played D1 football and we never did a single ab-specific exercise. Not a single one. Ab work came from compound movements. I would dare say there was some pretty heavy weight being moved around.

It's amazing this info is so relatively unknown, and there is a billion dollar industry centered around ab exercises and devices and theories, etc.

 

[Andyroddickfan]

You smoking crack, kid? Did you actually even read what I wrote? Where did you get the idea that A) my diet isn't great, and B) I don't have a six pack?

Not only did I never mention my diet -- which is relatively good -- I said I do have something of a six pack, same as before.

The point of the thread was not "how to cure back pain", but how to maintain a six pack without doing a bunch of ab work. But if you're too busy smoking crack, you might have missed all that...


.

"In an attempt to cure back pain": you have back pain, you wanted to cure it. So you talked to the fittest guy of all time and started doing less ab work. Which is what you are recommending we do. But wait, in your newfound ab glory you didn't cure your back pain. If it's upper back pain your upper back sucks. If it's lower back pain your core sucks. So obviously your new core stuff isn't helping. Or your back pain could be something else who knows. All we know is you didn't cure it... But you wanted to.

"You kinda have a six pack and this new ab stuff didn't really change how it looked": no kidding because you have mid teens bf% because your abs are kinda visible. Therefore if you want a six pack you need to change your diet to lower your bf%. So while doing your new ab stuff your diet didn't change therefore no new 6-pack news. You also know that having a six pack doesn't mean your abs are strong right?

Maybe had you saved the whole back story and just posted the last paragraph it would have been better. But if you read your whole post you pretty much said it didn't work for you. And no one is going to have washboard abs if they have high bf% no matter if they spend 30 min or 2 min on abs a week.

Also it's pretty juvenile to assume I smoke crack. Maybe you should smoke some crack, it might help your back pain, pal.

 

[heycal]

"In an attempt to cure back pain": you have back pain, you wanted to cure it. So you talked to the fittest guy of all time and started doing less ab work. Which is what you are recommending we do. But wait, in your newfound ab glory you didn't cure your back pain. If it's upper back pain your upper back sucks. If it's lower back pain your core sucks. So obviously your new core stuff isn't helping. Or your back pain could be something else who knows. All we know is you didn't cure it... But you wanted to.

"You kinda have a six pack and this new ab stuff didn't really change how it looked": no kidding because you have mid teens bf% because your abs are kinda visible. Therefore if you want a six pack you need to change your diet to lower your bf%. So while doing your new ab stuff your diet didn't change therefore no new 6-pack news. You also know that having a six pack doesn't mean your abs are strong right?

Maybe had you saved the whole back story and just posted the last paragraph it would have been better. But if you read your whole post you pretty much said it didn't work for you. And no one is going to have washboard abs if they have high bf% no matter if they spend 30 min or 2 min on abs a week.

You should have quit while you were behind, but oh well…

I'll try once more to explain what I so clearly explained in my OP:

In an attempt to cure back pain, I cut back dramatically on my ab work. While the goal of my experiment failed, I noticed something else: my decent six pack remained a decent six pack despite the lack of ab work. Conclusion? You don't need to do ab work to maintain a decent six pack.

Now, what part of this do you find so maddening, confusing, or beyond the scope of your crack-addled mind? Not only did you invent a whole set of facts that weren't true (I had a bad diet, and no six pack), you've gone off on tangents having nothing to do with anything I've posted.

I'm sure KevinT or anyone else who read it had no problem understanding my OP. Why do you?

 

[Andyroddickfan]

You should have quit while you were behind, but oh well…

I'll try once more to explain what I so clearly explained in my OP:

In an attempt to cure back pain, I cut back dramatically on my ab work. While the goal of my experiment failed, I noticed something else: my decent six pack remained a decent six pack despite the lack of ab work. Conclusion? You don't need to do ab work to maintain a decent six pack.

Now, what part of this do you find so maddening, confusing, or beyond the scope of your crack-addled mind? Not only did you invent a whole set of facts that weren't true (I had a bad diet, and no six pack), you've gone off on tangents having nothing to do with anything I've posted.

I'm sure KevinT or anyone else who read it had no problem understanding my OP. Why do you?

Ok, well I found the whole first post just funny I guess. Which is weird because yes big squats and deads will help your core. And oly lifts if you do them correctly. The rest.. Meh (like curls etc won't). Like you still have back pain and nothing about your abs changed. Like why did you even bother posting that?

But now your conclusion is so clear. You don't need ab work to have a six pack. No ****. A six pack is low bf%. That's it. Nothing more. And being honest if your under 200 no one should care if you have a 6 pack or not. It's easy. A six pack does not equal strong abs. I get the sense that you don't know that?

I also now believe that you have no 6 pack because all of a sudden it went from a bit of a six pack to decent six pack. And you obviously exaggerated your first post six pack appearance because this is the internet. So I now think your bf% is upper teens or low 20. So your diet could be better. Because of your bf%.

Like I just don't think you comprehend that a six pack has nothing to do with core strength. And again I'm not on crack. Keep saying it though, makes you sound smarter.

 

[heycal]

Like you still have back pain and nothing about your abs changed. Like why did you even bother posting that?

Becuase that's why I embarked on the experiment in the first place, dummy. In an attempt to help my back pain. You may find that uninteresting, but I'm sure others didn't mind read an extra sentence or two of background, one in the fine tradition of experiments aimed at one goal inadvertantly revealing something else of use. Anyone with an ounce of intellectual curiousity knows about this history, and finds it interesting. Crack addicts do not, I guess.

You don't need ab work to have a six pack. No ****. A six pack is low bf%. That's it. Nothing more. And being honest if your under 200 no one should care if you have a 6 pack or not. It's easy. A six pack does not equal strong abs. I get the sense that you don't know that?

And did you know that I never once mentioned "strong abs" or "core strength"? Or that most people more care about how their stomach looks than how strong it is?

I'm getting the sense you don't know that.

I also now believe that you have no 6 pack because all of a sudden it went from a bit of a six pack to decent six pack. And you obviously exaggerated your first post six pack appearance because this is the internet. So I now think your bf% is upper teens or low 20.r.

I was being modest. I definitely have a six pack, one that would be the the envy of many men half my age, and probably you included.

 

[r2473]

I definitely have a six pack, one that would be the the envy of many men half my age, and probably you included.

I'm getting hot just thinking about it.

 

[Itagaki]

I'm getting hot just thinking about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pusZXECS0mM

 

[yemenmocha]

planks

Love planks

 

[heycal]

I'm getting hot just thinking about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pusZXECS0mM

Sorry to get you boys going. I should have been more careful.

 

[heycal]

planks

Love planks

Planks.

Hate planks.

Nice in theory, but very uncomfortable on my arms/elbows/shoulders.

 

[OTMPut]

My abs are much stronger ever sence i have started doing deadlifts and squats.
Monk push-ups are killer too. All three work the core as a whole and work the muscle group in a way they are desgined to work.

Crunches are near useless. They only hurt your lower back. Abs asa muscle group are not made for that unnatural crunching motion.

 

[r2473]

Crunches are near useless. They only hurt your lower back. Abs asa muscle group are not made for that unnatural crunching motion.

Ab wheel rollout. Here's how you do them without hurting yourself:

http://www.beastskills.com/ab-wheel-rollout/

Do them like this guy (make sure you don't let your back "fold" or you will SERIOUSLY hurt yourself):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4sb7v0_5N0

This guys says he strengthened his back after injuring it doing deadlifts and squats. My story is similar. Up until several months ago it hurt for me to stand still for even 5 minutes. Today I had to stand for 45 minutes at someones computer and felt fine the whole time. The ab wheel is a great full core workout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMzo_hcf6tQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfTLXQUZeI

So I'm actually the opposite of the OP. I used to just do deadlifts, squats, etc and thought that was enough for the core. Now I do ab wheel, front lever straddle, back lever, L/V-sit, tuck planche, handstand holds/pushups, etc. These exercises use many different upper body muscles, but they all require pretty solid core strength. I feel MUCH better doing this stuff compared to deads, squats, benching, etc.

 

[OTMPut]

I agree deadliest and squats could be risky. They are very technical exercises especially when done with heavy weights.

I look at people doing reps with deadlifts just like they do bicep curl and I wince. Sure recipe to hurt your back.

 

[Sentinel]

Ab wheel rollout. Here's how you do them without hurting yourself:

http://www.beastskills.com/ab-wheel-rollout/

Do them like this guy (make sure you don't let your back "fold" or you will SERIOUSLY hurt yourself):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4sb7v0_5N0

This guys says he strengthened his back after injuring it doing deadlifts and squats. My story is similar. Up until several months ago it hurt for me to stand still for even 5 minutes. Today I had to stand for 45 minutes at someones computer and felt fine the whole time. The ab wheel is a great full core workout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMzo_hcf6tQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfTLXQUZeI

So I'm actually the opposite of the OP. I used to just do deadlifts, squats, etc and thought that was enough for the core. Now I do ab wheel, front lever straddle, back lever, L/V-sit, tuck planche, handstand holds/pushups, etc. These exercises use many different upper body muscles, but they all require pretty solid core strength. I feel MUCH better doing this stuff compared to deads, squats, benching, etc.

The ab wheel is interesting. How do you control the wheels ? To me it seems the wheels would just roll away, and one would fall flat on the ground ???

 

[heycal]

So I'm actually the opposite of the OP. I used to just do deadlifts, squats, etc and thought that was enough for the core.

To reiterate, I'm only focused on ab appearance when I speak of my ab workout or lack thereof. As a non-serious athlete, I figure my stomach is strong enough as it is for any real life activities I may engage in. (I think I remember reading something that backed up this view -- that the stomach gets all the workout/strength it needs for tennis, for example, just by playing tennis. No separate and additional work is required.)

How to help back pain is a whole other issue, and what core exercises might help or hurt that goal I have no real insights on… Back pain can be tricky stuff.

 

[OTMPut]

Crunches are guaranteed to give you back pain.

 

[maggmaster]

I love sweeping generalizations, they are so helpful. There is value in having a strong core, even for a non serious athlete. Will it make you look ripped? Not reallly.

 

[heycal]

I love sweeping generalizations, they are so helpful. There is value in having a strong core, even for a non serious athlete. Will it make you look ripped? Not reallly.

Are you responding to anyone or anything in particular here, or just expounding?

 

[r2473]

The ab wheel is interesting. How do you control the wheels ? To me it seems the wheels would just roll away, and one would fall flat on the ground ???

And that is the challenge of the exercise. As the wheel is "pulling" your arms away, your core is resisting. The danger is that your core fails and your back buckles/collapses (and you fall flat on your face).

The ab wheel is just an advanced plank. By putting your arms further out in front, you require your "core" do to more of the work.

I agree, Heycal. I ruptured my l4-l5 twice a few years back and on the advice of a great PT, stopped doing anything but planks. Knock on wood, I haven't had my back flare up in close to 3 years.

Kevin and I had different back problems (his much more severe), but we were able to address them in a pretty similar manner.

How to help back pain is a whole other issue, and what core exercises might help or hurt that goal I have no real insights on… Back pain can be tricky stuff.

Agree. I'm certainly not saying planks are "THE" silver bullet. Every back issue will be different. The back is tricky.

 

[Andyroddickfan]

To reiterate, I'm only focused on ab appearance when I speak of my ab workout or lack thereof. As a non-serious athlete, I figure my stomach is strong enough as it is for any real life activities I may engage in. (I think I remember reading something that backed up this view -- that the stomach gets all the workout/strength it needs for tennis, for example, just by playing tennis. No separate and additional work is required.)

How to help back pain is a whole other issue, and what core exercises might help or hurt that goal I have no real insights on… Back pain can be tricky stuff.

Ok! Now I get it! You just want your abs to look good. That's all you care about! You don't care about core strength or being an athlete!

Since you don't want a strong core why do any ab work at all? If you get it all by playing tennis. And since bf% determines six pack why do core work at all? Core work won't make your abs more visible, only diet will do that.

 

[heycal]

Core work won't make your abs more visible, only diet will do that.

Pretty much the point of my OP. Too bad it only took you two dozen posts to figure out what everyone else did on first read.

 

[Andyroddickfan]

Pretty much the point of my OP. Too bad it only took you two dozen posts to figure out what everyone else did on first read.

Ok. You should of only written that. Actually here's what you should of written:

Hello people. (This is a post for non-athletes and people who don't care about core strength).

Abs are made visible due to low bf% which correlates strongly with your diet.
Therefore if you want visible abs just get lower bf% and as a bonus you don't need to spend any time in the gym on abs!!

(End post)

I probably just overthought something I thought was common knowledge. My bad.

 

[r2473]

I probably just overthought something I thought was common knowledge. My bad.

Handy tip for you: You don't ever want to do much thinking when you're on the internets.

 

[heycal]

Handy tip for you: You don't ever want to do much thinking when you're on the internets.

Judging by what he posts, I don't think he's in danger of any such thing.

I love how some moron who doesn't know how to read is giving me advice on how to compose a post… Is this what Talk Tennis has come to, r2473??

 

[Andyroddickfan]

Judging by what he posts, I don't think he's in danger of any such thing.

I love how some moron who doesn't know how to read is giving me advice on how to compose a post… Is this what Talk Tennis has come to, r2473??

Just read your OP in the aging and muscle loss thread.

Don't even feel the need to respond anymore.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

This is the stupidest thread, so your whole goal was to help your back pain? Not only did you NOT do that but you also don't have a 6 pack because you still have high bf% because your diet isn't great. So why would anyone do what you recommended when it didn't do anything for you? Unless your friend is doing squats or deads variations who cares (those exercises will help your core a ton). Also if he thinks he will squat big or dead big without any good supplemental core exercises he is wrong.

All in all I didn't get the point of this? Why not just get to 8% bf and not do any core exercises?

Would that I could.

 

[heycal]

Just read your OP in the aging and muscle loss thread.

Don't even feel the need to respond anymore.

Too bad you felt the need to respond in the first place. You wasted everyone's time with your misreading of the OP, mistaken assumptions, invention of information, and all the other ways you mangled things in your so-called contributions to this thread.