Score against Big4
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
"give up with logic", "make rational posts" are all insults.
Towny
Hall of Fame
Did Thiem ever win a slam final?
Seriously, comparing a 2 time slam winner, who went through Sampras and Federer for his slams, with 5 masters 1000 and being former world number 1 to Thiem, who's never won anything bigger than ATP 500, is ludicrous.
Nadal had far tougher competition, such as Djokovic and Federer, why not focus on them rather than pretending Thiem is much tougher than he actually is?
beard
Legend
Came back just in time for Christmas
Especially on Christmas
Well Lew, you are officially in their heads, they cant do anything but to insult, be childish, be pathetic.
You made them trolls that cant talk tennis facts you present, but only make personal insults.
Hope you don't really get insults personally, please don't. And... site management is poor not deleting such posts.
Great job, tennis wise and anti troll wise
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Thiem is young, Safin is retired. Of course Safin is more accomplished.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Maybe if you're really thin-skinned I guess...
Thiem is 25 lol. Safin had all those achievements by the time he was Thiem's age despite missing a whole year due to injury.
Towny
Hall of Fame
Thiem is 25. Safin had achieved all that while he was younger than Thiem is now
So far all you managed to do with all of your threads is:
-prove beyond any doubt you haven’t seen much if any tennis whatsoever
-demonstrate a total lack of even basic understanding of tennis and sport in general
-show logic is not your friend
-very strongly argued (not knowingly) that Roger is actually undisputed Goat on more than one occasion
Aside from feeding the trolls with some cherry-picked numbers which you can’t even interpret correctly, you really didn’t do much. Shame, as you seem very hardworking and even passionate in your blind hate towards Fed. If you applied yourself to sth that you actually understand, you might even contribute something meaningful. But tennis really isn’t your thing, sorry mate.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
We'll rate Thiem's career when he retires.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Towny
Hall of Fame
Will you apply that same reasoning to the Big 3? Why rate any of them while they're still playing if that's what you think?
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
In today's tennis he is still young.At least admit you made a boo boo by putting it down to Thiem's age
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Well they're much closer to retirement than Thiem.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Well Lew, you are officially in their heads, they cant do anything but to insult, be childish, be pathetic.
You made them trolls that cant talk tennis facts you present, but only make personal insults.
Hope you don't really get insults personally, please don't. And... site management is poor not deleting such posts.
Great job, tennis wise and anti troll wise
Those aren't even serious insults. It's regulation stuff that's seen on the internet and in everyday life consistently.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Just the Extended H2H
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
If I really attacked him, I'd say worse than that.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Take it easy. When did I insult him?Well Lew, you are officially in their heads, they cant do anything but to insult, be childish, be pathetic.
You made them trolls that cant talk tennis facts you present, but only make personal insults.
Hope you don't really get insults personally, please don't. And... site management is poor not deleting such posts.
Great job, tennis wise and anti troll wise
abmk
Bionic Poster
Federer at AO 05 is definitely comparable to Nadal at 18 RG
and Safin didn't beat Sampras at the AO in 00, he beat him at the USO. didn't just beat him, but dominated him.
comparing Thiem at RG to Safin at those AO/USO events is like comparing day to night.
Nadal was having cramps in his hands by the 3rd set in the RG 18 final. Thiem wasn't playing well in the final. If he had, he'd have extended the match (atleast taken it to a 4th set).
Towny
Hall of Fame
They are. But the point is, how tough is Thiem now, at the moment, not in 5 years when he might have finally won a slam. Federer lost to Safin when he had won the preceding two masters. He had also already won a slam. Thiem has done nothing of the sort
NatF
Bionic Poster
Thiem is part of an 8+ year gap in talent. Guy hasn't even won a masters and he's 25...
True, and he is playing in the strongest tennis era in the presence of Djokovic, Nadal, Federer and Murray.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Night Slasher
Professional
Do you realize that by filtering out the facts that don't fit your theories, you'll soon find yourself in a position where you can never learn anything new?
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
While I'm here I might as well say it I guess. The only way to "attack" anyone (for lack of a better word) on this forum is to be passive aggressive because the real aggressive stuff gets censored. Not that I have a problem with that, I don't, but when it's clear as day what @Lew II agenda is (he always cherrypicks stats to make Federer and Federer only look bad) and no Djokovic fans call him on it, it gets left to Federer fans to do it. Then, instead of even one Djokovic fan calling him on his obvious agenda they jump and scream "Look he's getting attacked by those horrible Federer fans." "Let's defend our stats man because we also love making Federer look bad."
Then if you call him on it like @NatF does he runs away, or ignores what you've posted or doesn't even try to understand it. There's no rational discussion there. And I wouldn't even mind it if it was like once a week or month or something, but he's posting an average of probably 2-3 threads a day on the same topic all to make one specific player look bad, which could basically amount to spamming the forum at this point.
And this is a symptom of any internet forum really, with a bunch of distinct fanbases. There's too much hive mind. It's just the way it is unfortunately. I'll tag @tennisaddict right now and tell him he should tone down the hate on Djokovic, but I don't expect it to work. Just like Lew will continue on being Lew. I'm well aware this post will eventually be forgotten or deleted or fall on deaf ears, but it has to be said by someone. I just hope enough people read it before it gets deleted, or worse reported for "attacking" a guy. Ooooh,
Then if you call him on it like @NatF does he runs away, or ignores what you've posted or doesn't even try to understand it. There's no rational discussion there. And I wouldn't even mind it if it was like once a week or month or something, but he's posting an average of probably 2-3 threads a day on the same topic all to make one specific player look bad, which could basically amount to spamming the forum at this point.
And this is a symptom of any internet forum really, with a bunch of distinct fanbases. There's too much hive mind. It's just the way it is unfortunately. I'll tag @tennisaddict right now and tell him he should tone down the hate on Djokovic, but I don't expect it to work. Just like Lew will continue on being Lew. I'm well aware this post will eventually be forgotten or deleted or fall on deaf ears, but it has to be said by someone. I just hope enough people read it before it gets deleted, or worse reported for "attacking" a guy. Ooooh,
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BHServe
Semi-Pro
What are you trying to imply with this?
Three winning seasons when Fed was way past 30 and Novak and Rafa in prime age, and two winning seasons when himself at peak. What’s the beef here?
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
He's trying to say Federer played better when he was older than when he was younger. Probably based on winning % or something, or maybe H2H vs Djokodal or some other equally inaccurate metric Of course, ignoring the fact that Federer won 3 slams and the WTF in 2004 and 2006.
“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August 2015)
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
They all say this. Sampras said this in 2002. No champion outright admits they're worse than they were at their peak.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Hewitt had no shortage of late round matches at the slams and would have almost certainly had more if not for tough draws with Federer in early rounds.
It was your point that Nadal is peaking as evidenced by his win/loss record, my point here is that win/loss record isn't really that revealing. Keep tying yourself in knots trying to prove there's a big difference between 94% vs 96%.
Did Thiem ever turn up to a slam final with this in his box?
Legendary.
That is some serious "FY" in the face of the modern Instagram "stars" with their gel, curls etc etc
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Well this is like me saying that Djokovic is better on clay than Nadal is on HC, it's just that on clay he's been stopped by Nadal who is more dominant than any HC player stopping Nadal on HC. You refuted my point, but now are using that argument to boost Theim on clay. Let's not forget that Theim was routinely beaten by Zverev when he had a chance to win a masters on clay.
This is still a post prime version of Nadal. You sought to belittle Federer beating a 30 year old Nadal but now act like he's so good at 30 that not even winning a set against him is to be expected. Lets get this right, Safin actually beating a prime Federer isn't as good as Theim not even winning a set against a post 30 Nadal? If we say that and then say because Nadal is so good at RG at 30 that taking a set off him is harder than beating a prime Federer, this effectively means every victory Nadal had over Fed prime or not is also not as impressive as Theim's performance vs Nadal. It means Thiem on clay is better than Nadal on Hardcourt and Grass...
Who's talking about sampras at the AO? Safin beat him at the USO where he's (Sampras) in my opinion USO GOAT
Anyway the truth is that Safin was very inconsistent and though Theim is early into his career I will bet he will be much more consitant than Safin but Safin's peak level is higher than Theim.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
With these stats though it's highly flawed. Fed's best years
2004 plays Nadal once. No Nole or Murray
2005 Plays Murray I think once but still no Nole
2006 plays Nole once and Murray once I think
It takes until 2007/2008 for there to even be a big 4, so obviously in earlier years his record is mainly based around playing Nadal, where as Djokovic's best years include many meeting with all the rest. In 2014/2015 Fed;s stats get better because he plays and beats Murray a lot
Pandora Mikado
Semi-Pro
No-one in history of tennis as dominant as Nadal on clay
Federer +1 slam over Sampras at Wimbledon.
Djokovic + 1 slam over Federer at Australia.
Nadal +5 over Borg !!!!!!
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Ok, Safin was tougher. But Thiem on clay is no joke, not a case he was the only one to beat Nadal on clay both in 2017 and 2018.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
Lewcifer at it again
Don't embarrass yourself. You are not that stupid? Authority would be someone who is an expert on something. Craig o'Shaughnessy would be an authority for tennis. A historian would be authority for Stalingrad Battle. A solder being in the battle is not authority, He is much more than that. He is the truth, he was there. Federer talks about his personal experience. He is the truth. There is no other truth but him.
Towny
Hall of Fame
I never said he was a joke. He can play a high level match here or there. But he's proved himself incapable of winning the tournament afterwards. He beat Nadal in Rome 2017 before being destroyed by Djokovic 6-1, 6-0; a Djokovic who couldn't even win the tournament himself. He beat Nadal again this year at Madrid but lost in straights to Zverev. I find it far more plausible that Nadal played at a lower level in those masters matches than at RG.
In short, he's no joke but hasn't showed the mental wherewithal to win a masters, let alone a slam. He certainly isn't comparable to Safin on hard courts, at least not at the moment
Tennis_Hands
Banned
That’s beyond dumb even for a Teenager entering puberty, let alone someone claiming (although with no success whatsoever) to be a college professor, distinguished author and what not. You just said that personal experience is the only truth! Meaning Roger saying he is better than ever is the only truth. This means when someone talks about personal experience there is no other truth. Think about it for a couple of minutes, professor
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I am not a member of Djokovic fanbase. I am me.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
You are a member of the Djokovic fanbase. Don't get all philosophical now. You're not fooling anyone.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I am not.
Those are not two contradictory statements.... "Professor".
You are a man of high integrity and great bravery.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
That is true, but it has nothing to do with what you said: the point was, you don't make sense by saying that. In fact, it a kind of shows that you don't know what you are saying.
That is true, but it has nothing to do with what you said: the point was, you don't make sense by saying that. In fact, it a kind of shows that you don't know what you are saying.
You are so clever that I can't discuss with you. Therefore, I would suggest that you hook up with someone else who would be more appropriate for you.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
So a guy who'd been on the tour for 17 years up to that point wouldn't be considered an expert on that particular subject? Federer is an expert. Have you ever seen him analyse a match? He did it at Wimbledon last year, I believe.
The point is, relying on what someone says is never a full indicator of what actually happened. Statistics and other forms of evidence can be used in place. I believe Federer has also said during his 2013 season that he felt he could compete with his 2007 self (it was on a Reddit AMA). I suppose you could also use a player's wisdom to determine court speed, but that too is often contradictory with the CPI/CPR data.
I don't know why people stick to that "wishful thinking" quote when Lew has offered up actual stats to aid your case.
After this comment, I conclude that you are too clever for my liking so you can hook up with someone else to discuss. Have a nice life.
What is this supposed to prove? Fed’s best year 2006 he is 2-5 because he faced Nadal 3 times over BO5 on clay (near invincible there) and Murray once... who wasn’t even a factor yet.
Murray and Djokovic weren’t even a factor during Fed’s peak 2004-2006. This is nonsense. You should be counting Fed’s wins vs his actual contemporaries... IE Roddick, Hewitt, Agassi, Nalbandian in 2004-2005... Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick 2006-2007 for example.
Murray and Djokovic weren’t even a factor during Fed’s peak 2004-2006. This is nonsense. You should be counting Fed’s wins vs his actual contemporaries... IE Roddick, Hewitt, Agassi, Nalbandian in 2004-2005... Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick 2006-2007 for example.
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