SEC Tennis

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by TopDawg, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    It's the rules and the coaches work around them. If a team is an at-large candidate and misses that bid because they are sub .500, in the SEC the reality the coach would get fired for it. Take the Texas women last year, would have been an at-large entry to the NCAA's, but finished sub .500 and did not make the tourney. What happened to that legitimate coach? Fired!

    Come on folks, who really cares if a team from a tough conference has to play a quadruple header to make the NCAA's. Ole Miss did it this year with Jackson State. I'd argue Jackson State won the SWAC and is in the NCAA's because they they took advantage of the opportunities, got tougher and ensured winning their conference tourney.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  2. CincyIllinifan

    CincyIllinifan New User

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    I don't have a problem scheduling a few easy preseason matches, but this just makes a mockery of the sport. These aren't even full, best of seven matches. If a coach has to schedule something like this to even come close to .500, then they don't deserve to be in the NCAA tourney.

    What does a team like Jackson St get out of this? Does Alabama or Ole Miss pay them?

    I sincerely hope the NCAA closes this loophole.
     
  3. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    Bama and Ole Miss may well pay their expenses for the day.

    The coaches make the rules for college tennis, not the NCAA. Yell at the coach during their annual convention. They made the rule 3 or so years ago and still have not changed it. Want to bet me if they do change it they will do away with it altogether? Then we'll be back to 5-12 type records making the NCAA and more moaning and whining. Get over it or go to the coaches convention and make a stink about it.
     
  4. SECFAN

    SECFAN Rookie

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    Schools usually pay them some time of money. And yes they are best of seven matches. Ole Miss played Alcorn State twice and Arkansas-Pine Bluff twice. The first match of each was doubles and singles and then the second match they started with singles.
     
  5. PJ Lynn

    PJ Lynn New User

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    The coaches and the ITA don't make the .500 rule...that is an NCAA directive. Do coaches have some input? Yeah, kinda...but coaches make up less than 15% of the NCAA D-I Tennis Committee (only 3 of the 23 members at last year's meeting were sitting D-I coaches at the time.)

    http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2015DIMWTE_Annual_Meeting_Report_082415.pdf
     
  6. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    If I'm wrong I'll stand corrected. But I have to believe the non-coaching committee members take their directives from their schools tennis coaches.

    In last years 2015 meeting they voted that the following on the rule. The committee noted that the .500 or above criterion will remain in place for future championships.

    Point is, why should schools that play multiple matches to meet the criterion to ensure post season eligibility get any flack? Somewhat to your point, many of the coaches using the multi-match loophole to get to or above .500 were not even around when the rule was first implemented.
     
  7. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    The "wins" aren't even wins though. I mean in some cases the teams don't even field full teams. Tennessee beat Murray State a few times without them even fielding 6 players. The real issue is how the ITA rankings work. They do not penalize nearly enough for losses and it allows teams that are 7-12 to still be top 40 in the nation when they would be nowhere close to that in any other college sport.
     
  8. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    I get your point, but a college tennis dual is so much different than other sports. True upsets are rare, and maybe that has something to do with the losses not counting so much against a team as do ranked wins count for them.
     
  9. CincyIllinifan

    CincyIllinifan New User

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    Get over it, or complain at the coaches convention? Who are you? I'm just making a comment on a message board. Take it easy Francis. IMO, it's pathetic that some coaches feel the need to pursue such a practice. As far as I'm concerned, it would be like an NCAA basketball team scheduling multiple, shortened, 3 on 3 games on the same day with an inferior opponent just to inflate their record. They would, and should, be laughed at.

    If you don't think this is a ridiculous, unethical practice, then there's no discussing it with you.
     
  10. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    And I'm telling you the rules drive the behavior and the rules allow for it.

    If late in the season you were coaching a team that was 7-10, 5th in your conference, ranked around #25 in the country and knew you needed to be above .500 to make the tourney, are you telling me you would forego ensuring you qualified for an at-large bid? Likely jeopardize your job? You think your players would be OK with you knowing they could be at the NCAA's but are sitting at home because you refused to work with the system? No. As a matter of fact, most players would question your understanding of ethics vs. common sense and likely not play for you. But you could look your self in the mirror. Players, staff, administration, school, fans, boosters, family, families of those who work for you and parents be damned.

    Comparing NCAA baskeball to tennis. What's next comparing Forrest Gump to Einstein?

    The rule is ridiculous, unethical practice, far from it. Working around it is smart coaching. Not working around it is dumb. Ask the Texas Women's coach from last year who has since been replaced.
     
  11. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    LSU beats Rice. Minor upset and it came down to 3rd set TB for a 4-3 win.
     
  12. tennis7777777

    tennis7777777 Rookie

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    My gators played well today, big challenge for us tomorrow
     
  13. Zacenroe86

    Zacenroe86 Rookie

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    Oosterbaan=Monster
     
  14. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Power rankings:

    1. Florida
    2. Georgia

    3. Kentucky
    4. Vanderbilt
    5. Ole Miss
    6. Mississippi State
    7. Texas A&M (lowest I can remember them ever being, but they just don't look strong this year)

    8. South Carolina
    9. Alabama
    10. Arkansas
    11. Tennessee
    12. LSU
    13. Auburn
     
  15. Nacho

    Nacho Semi-Pro

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    Little worried about Georgia right now....Kentucky may be ahead of them....And I think Arkansas is higher, maybe closer to Ole Miss
     
  16. BigGuy

    BigGuy New User

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    Ok Clemson_tennis, it takes guts to put it all out there for the rest of us to pick on. So let me do my job and pick on it.

    No way is Auburn the worst in SEC. I would put them in the low middle of the pack. I might just put Tennessee there at the end. They got shut out by Duke 4-0, and destroyed by Georgia Tech 7-0 (granted, that's a really good team). How times have changed. I would drop Texas A&M down even more, maybe 9th. And speaking of 9th, that's probably too high for Alabama. IMHO!
     
  17. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Auburn may be above Tennessee and LSU but I don't see how you could place them any higher than that. They have already lost to South Alabama and Georgia State
     
  18. BigGuy

    BigGuy New User

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    Maybe I just believe in Bobby Reynolds too much, but I think I'd rank them 9th or 10th, above Tennessee, LSU, and above either Texas A&M, Arkansas, Ole Miss, or Alabama. Alabama definitely in rebuilding mode but probably better than people realize. And I think you overestimate Ole Miss. Anyway, yeah Auburn lost to South Alabama and GSU, but those are both pretty strong programs. Georgia State defeated Florida State 4-2 and beat North Florida 4-2, and lost to South Alabama 6-1, so these programs are not chumps. Losing to them, Auburn could still be middle of the pack SEC. Just not rock bottom.

    I think South Carolina may be better than you have them ranked, too, but they haven't really been tested yet. The race at the top is really interesting, because I think most would agree that at this point Florida is a solid #1, but Kentucky can definitely take them with if few of those "deciding points" fall their way (I HATE NO-AD). UK had a lot of quality wins already, with a loss to Oklahoma State maybe the only bad loss. Georgia and Vanderbilt are about equal, maybe slight edge to Vanderbilt. Interesting fact: UF lost to UVA 2-5, Vanderbilt and Kentucky lost to UVA 3-4... does this mean anything? Probably not, but shows the parity.
    Ok, I will give it a shot:
    SEC Power Rankings
    1. Florida
    2. Kentucky
    3. Vanderbilt
    4. Georgia
    5. Mississippi State
    6. Arkansas
    7. South Carolina
    8. Ole Miss
    9. Alabama
    10. Auburn
    11. Texas A & M
    12. LSU
    13. Tennessee

    Probably TOTALLY WRONG. But in a week or two we will have much better info.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  19. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    It's going to one of the most unpredictable leagues this year. All of the teams are pretty even. Like Tennessee is at the bottom probably but on a given day they could beat Vanderbilt or Miss State. A&M is not as good but could still beat a few teams here and there. It will be a year full of "upsets" and parity. Only Florida looks to be separating themselves
     
  20. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    LSU was unsurprisingly beaten fairly easily by Tulane.
     
  21. BigGuy

    BigGuy New User

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    Look, I'm the first guy to dis LSU, I was torn whether they or Tenn should be rock bottom, but I do think this result says more about Tulane than LSU. They were supposed to win, and they did. Tulane is a good team, maybe even top 25. To misquote the inimitable Denny Green, "The Tigers are who we thought they were!"
     
  22. chris-swede

    chris-swede Hall of Fame

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    MSU is better!
     
  23. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    LSU has an even worse loss vs Rice on Sunday. Got dominated in the lower parts of the lineup. Things not looking good on the Bayou
     
  24. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    A&M proving they aren't dead yet with a bigtime win at Florida
     
  25. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Auburn and Tennessee both came very close to big upset wins. The rest of the SEC would have loved to have seen those two pull out the upsets so that their future wins over Auburn and Tennessee would have been good ranking boosting wins. Teams that need help like Arkansas, Alabama, LSU etc
     
  26. chris-swede

    chris-swede Hall of Fame

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    would be better for whole SEC if both would ve won their matches
    by the way Ole Miss won at A&M earlier, A&M wins also helps Ole Miss.
     
  27. BigGuy

    BigGuy New User

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    Hey, credit to you Clemson_tennis, you sort of predicted A&M win when you posted that they could "beat a few teams here or there." They knocked off Florida, who has been seriously hampered for the last three matches by losing McClain Kessler, one of their key middle lineup guys. Aggies may not be as down as we thought...
     
  28. BigGuy

    BigGuy New User

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    Ok, Aggies definitely not down. Knocking off OSU?! Wow. They are the team to beat in the SEC now. They still have UGA on 4/15, but they are undefeated in SEC and now they knock of the #2 men's team nationally (and #2 is being charitable after the Texas loss). Looks like OSU is vulnerable if you can take those middle and low singles guys, not as much depth as they need. A team like Texas A&M with guys like Arconada at #3 can beat them. No "I" in team I guess!

    The fact that OSU lost to both Texas and Texas A&M maybe makes my Gators look slightly less bad, who also took bad losses to those teams, but mostly I think this says more about the Aggies. They are for real. Look out!
     
  29. Court_Gamecocks

    Court_Gamecocks New User

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    I do not believe in the Ole Miss program any longer. I used to have a lot of respect for them. Not as much now.
     
  30. chris-swede

    chris-swede Hall of Fame

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    Ole Miss is dead...also i think their roster is not that bad..and they often win the doubles Point. I do not know why they cannot win matches?
    1- Hansson, should win a lot
    2- Jorge okay..thats a Problem...
    3- Sandkaulen, him and Jorge are sharing 2/3 ..is a weak spot actually
    4- is even weaker with mostly Kraljevic
    5 and 6 are good with Fallert and Babic
    Problem vs Gamecocks were surprisingly on 5 & 6

    Do not know what they do with the Players..Babic was Top200 Juniors in the world...and after years he is only playing #6 and losing matches there ....as a Junior...he also played #6 last season and #5 as freshman....
    Fallert played succesfully on #5 last season as a freshman..he still Plays only #5 , he even was Top100 Juniors and played at Melbourne...
    Kraljevic Top100 Juniors, 1200# world ranking in Mens ITF, big Problem to win matches on #4, he played .500 on #3 last season
    Sandkaulen was Top50, okay he is playing very high for a freshman right now

    This years Team should be better in my opinion...also after losing lindmark after last season.
     
  31. chris-swede

    chris-swede Hall of Fame

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